IRC channel logs

<c107>I have Guile 2.0, but `configure` says I don't.

<mark_weaver>what does "pkg-config --libs --cflags guile-2.0" output for you?

<c107>mark_weaver: not found in search path. no package found.

<mark_weaver>what prefix did you use to install guile?

<c107>mark_weaver: None: `sudo apt-get install guile`.

<c107>mark_weaver: Oh, I use Trisquel.

<mark_weaver>ah, you also need the guile-2.0-dev package

<mark_weaver>in general, when compiling things from source code, you need the *-dev packages of all build dependencies.

<c107>mark_weaver: So, check `README` and make sure I install the `*-dev` versions of the packages, as well?

<mark_weaver>right

<c107>Will do. Right now, I'm installing the metapackage for the Trisquel system, so I can have a conventional computer system for school.

<c107>mark_weaver: Will Guix be aware of already-installed packages?

<mark_weaver>Guix neither knows nor cares about packages installed outside of Guix. It uses its own libraries and compilers exclusively.

<mark_weaver>Well, you need the outer system to build Guix itself, but all of the software built and installed using Guix is self-contained and doesn't use the outer system at all (except the kernel)

<c107>mark_weaver: Ah. So, don't install any software yet.

<mark_weaver>Why do you say that? Installing software is the whole point of Guix :)

<mark_weaver>it coexists just fine with the outer system, although it is largely independent of it.

<c107>mark_weaver: I want some sort of boundary between Guix-installed softwarae and APT-installed software.

<c107>I don't want to wonder whether I installed something with Guix or APT.

<mark_weaver>yes, they are separately quite well. All the software that Guix installs is in /nix/store/*

<c107>Oh, right. It breaks Unix/POSIX compatibility.

<mark_weaver>and when you ask to "install" some set of packages, it creates a symlink tree within ~/.guix-profile/

<c107>I'm not sure about such breakage.

<mark_weaver>well, it uses a different filesystem structure.

<c107>mark_weaver: Exactly.

<mark_weaver>anyway, it doesn't interfere with the outer system at all. all the software it installs is invisible to you unless you add ~/.guix-profile/bin to your PATH.

<mark_weaver>well, the guix command itself will be installed in $PREFIX/bin

<mark_weaver>(and guix installs some of its libraries in $PREFIX)

<mark_weaver>but when you use that guix system to install new software, all of that software is in /nix/store/* and ~/.guix-profile/

<mark_weaver>if you want a basic overview, check out the following video: http://audio-video.gnu.org/video/ghm2013/Ludovic_Courtes-GNU_Guix_the_computing_freedom_deployment_tool_.webm

<c107>mark_weaver: Is `~/guix-profile/` the directory for user-specific packages and Guix operations?

<mark_weaver>well, each user can install packages, and the way that works is by creating a tree of symlinks into /nix/store/*, where the actual software lives.

<c107>mark_weaver: I do not yet have the means to play video, but I will watch it ASAP. Unfortunately, I have no way to copy this link.

<c107>mark_weaver: That's editing a directory that does not belong to the user.

<mark_weaver>/nix/store/ is managed by the guix-daemon, which normally runs as root but builds the software until isolated chroots using unprivileged user ids.

<mark_weaver>s/until/under/

<mark_weaver>the idea is that mutually untrusting users can ask the guix-daemon to build software on their behalf. that software goes into /nix/store/*

<mark_weaver>and then each user can "install" some subset of the software that has been built. each one has their own symlink tree that contains just the packages they asked for.

<mark_weaver>there's also the slides from that talk: http://www.gnu.org/software/guix/guix-ghm-ludo-20130823.pdf

<c107>mark_weaver: So, if multiple users have identical packages, they need not waste space on duplicates?

<mark_weaver>right

<c107>libgcrypt not usable.

<c107>mark_weaver

<mark_weaver>yeah, I remember running into that on my Debian box.

<mark_weaver>first of all, do you have libgcrypt-dev installed?

<mark_weaver>I don't have access to my debian box from my current location, but as I recall, I had to add --with-gcrypt-prefix=? LIBGCRYPT_LIBS=? LIBGCRYPT_CFLAGS=? to the configure line

<mark_weaver>where the '?' bits are exercises for the reader, for now, I'm afraid.

<mark_weaver>when I get home in several hours, I can tell you more

<mark_weaver>Greetings djbclark! It's good to see you here :)

<mark_weaver>(djbclark has kindly lent me a YeeLoong 8133 to help with the Guix-on-Loongson porting effort)

<mark_weaver>(and also another YeeLoong 8101B so that I can send back the faulty machine they recently sent me without losing my main dev machine)

<mark_weaver>s/they/Lemote/

<mark_weaver>well, time for me to sleep.

*mark_weaver --> zzz

<viric>djbclark: one of your fuloong is at service for guix

<mark_weaver>at this point, I can safely predict that the new MIPS N32 bootstrap tarballs (based on core-updates) will be ready before tomorrow morning.

<mark_weaver>most likely, they'll be ready within about 16 hours from now.

<mark_weaver>c107: did you have any luck getting past the gcrypt problem?

<mark_weaver>I got mixed up, btw. I didn't have to add any of those gcrypt flags when building on debian. rather, it was when building on my home-grown distro (built from scratch using CLFS)

<c107>mark_weaver: No, I think it's what I'm stuck on right now.

<c107>What's CLFS?

<mark_weaver>Cross Linux from Scratch.

<c107>mark_weaver: I will paste the result of `./configure`.

<mark_weaver>the needed details of what went wrong will be in config.log

<mark_weaver>c107: is 'libgcrypt-dev' installed?

<c107>mark_weaver: csh@cshlap:~$ whereis libgcrypt-dev

<c107>libgcrypt-dev:

<c107>mark_weaver: Neither in repo.

<mark_weaver>I guess it's called libgcrypt11-dev actually.

<mark_weaver>in general, when searching for things like that on debian-derived systems, "apt-cache pkgnames libgcrypt" or "apt-cache search gcrypt" are helpful.

<c107>mark_weaver: I know. I just forget to pipe it to more(1).

<c107>mark_weaver: libgcrypt11-dev is already the newest version.

<c107>I would have pasted `config.log` by now, but I don't have curl(1).

<mark_weaver>okay, then I guess we should look in config.log for details of what went wrong.

<c107>mark_weaver: Got it. Pardon the delay. http://sprunge.us/WaYR

<mark_weaver>c107: what error message does configure print?

<mark_weaver>looking in that config.log, it looks like the problem is a lack of sqlite3, not anything to do with libgcrypt

<c107>mark_weaver: Oh, right. That was the last message I saw once I fixed libgcrypt issues.

<mark_weaver>I think you need libsqlite3-dev

<c107>mark_weaver: Oh, okay -- sqlite3 didn't exist.

<c107>I'm installing `libsqlite3-dev`.

<mark_weaver>remember, I said that in general, when building packages from source, you need the *-dev packages for each build dependency

<c107>mark_weaver: I knew, and I tried to find them. I just didn't realize the serious flaws in being so lazy as to not pipe searches to more(1).

<c107>mark_weaver: I didn't know about `lib*`.

<mark_weaver>grepping for 'dev' might be better

<mark_weaver>apt-cache pkgnames foo | grep dev; apt-cache pkgnames libfoo | grep dev

<c107>Why not `apt-cache search`?

<mark_weaver>that's probably fine too, but it will cast a much wider net, and probably print a bunch of irrelevant stuff.

<c107>Ah, yes; that was my problem to begin with.

<mark_weaver>pkgnames foo prints only packages whose names start with foo.

<mark_weaver>search foo prints every package whose description (and maybe some other things) contain foo

<c107>Okay. So, first try `pkgnames`, then try `search` when looking for packages.

<c107>`configure` seemed to exit successfully. Doing `make install clean`.

<c107>Erm, `sudo make install clean`.

<mark_weaver>it's generally not recommended to do builds as root.

<mark_weaver>(I'm not talking about guix in particular, just more generally)

<mark_weaver>install has to be done as root, yes, but the build doesn't.

<mark_weaver>also, I'm not sure I'd be so anxious to clean right away.

*c107 shrugs

<mark_weaver>well, whatever floats your boat :)

<c107>I did it in FreeBSD, as is tradition.

*c107 uses "South Park" Canadian voice.

<mark_weaver>the FreeBSD tradition is to do all builds as root?

<c107>mark_weaver: Unless it's software being installed locally for one user.

<mark_weaver>wow

<mark_weaver>well, Debian derived systems go to great lengths to not only avoid doing builds as root, but even "make install" is not done as root for debian package builds.

<c107>mark_weaver: It's just what's generally done. I mean, nobody seems to `cd /usr/ports/editors/emacs; make; su root; make install clean`.

<c107>That'd be rather strange.

*mark_weaver tries hard to do as little as possible as root

<c107>This method is rather logical. It's just not what I'm used to.

<c107>mark_weaver: Does this look like a proper termination? `make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/csh/guix-0.4'

<mark_weaver>yes

<c107>So, it is installed. What do I do now?

<mark_weaver>please read the manual

<mark_weaver>you have to create some users and a group and start the daemon

<mark_weaver>I have to go afk for a while. good luck!

<c107>Reading Guix Info document. Command fragment `-s `which nologin`` fails.

<c107>Cannot create Guix daemon user.