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<zacts>can I build a complete distro with guix?
<zacts>or which distro is recommended for using guix?
<gzg>zacts: Yes; You can use GNU! :^)
<gzg>The plan, is to build an upstream GNU distribution via guix.
<zacts>so what can I use now?
<zacts>i.e. which distro should I use to develop guix?
<davexunit>zacts: your preferred gnu/linux distro
<zacts>oh I see
<davexunit>guix can live happily on it
<zacts>can guix replace the package manager of my distro, or install local packages to ~/bin or something?
<davexunit>it won't replace the package manager
<davexunit>but it can co-exist with it
<zacts>can I do everything as an unprivileged user?
<zacts>s/everything/most of everything/
<gzg>zacts: Yup, just have to run the daemon as root.
<zacts>ok cool!
<zacts>will guix be easily portable to other OS? such as Gnu/kFreeBSD or Gnu/HURD?
<zacts>especially in terms of eventually being able to create those types of distros
<gzg>zacts: From what I hear, there is a strong chance that it'll be on Hurd relatively soon -- with the expressed interest I've heard via stowfs.
<zacts>wow stow the gnu utility has a filesystem now?
<gzg>zacts: Very little "official information" on the wiki now... but it as part of unionfs.
<zacts>I really want to work on this project in the future. I'm in college now. I plan to go for a Comp Sci major.
<zacts>but I currently know almost nothing about Comp Sci.
<zacts>my first step will be installing guix and getting it to work, also testing the qemu image. I guess..
<davexunit>zacts: good luck
<zacts>I know UNIX/Gnu command line. I used to use vim, but I'm moving to emacs.
<zacts>I know perl
<davexunit>learning emacs is a wonderful thing.
<gzg>zacts: FYI, don't expect much from the demo image -- it doesn't even have enough space to install file-system utils to expand the partitions.
<zacts>I also like minix3 for learning how operating systems work. so maybe one day I can combine gnu + minix3 + guix in some way.. who knows..
<gzg>Full of potential, but you aren't going to get very far as-of yet -- via those sets of means (0.4 vm).
<zacts>but that would probably be like 6-7 years from now.
<zacts>anyway, so yeah. guix looks way cool. I will read the doc and figure out how to install it.
<gzg>zacts: The install is pretty trivial. Once setup though, make sure to do a "guix pull" to get the latest set up expressions made available to you.
<zacts>so do 'guix pull' before I do anything else, after the initall install?
<gzg>zacts: Well, you don't need to -- also, make sure you have the daemon running, you have ownership of your account in the ../nix/per-user/your-username-folder and your you'll likely need to change group permissions, but after you try to do anything that includes installing, guix should warn you do to that.
<gzg>If you have any issues, feel free to come back and ask. :^)
<zacts>sure, thanks
<quiliro>what level of knowledge is required to use guix gnu
<zacts>quiliro: I've asked the same question. have you tried installing it yet?
<zacts>do you know the UNIX/gnu command line and bash?
<mark_weaver>to simply install/upgrade/remove packages, it's pretty much like any other modern package manager.
<zacts>mark_weaver: yeah, I can't wait to install it
<mark_weaver>it's slightly more involved to modify or add new packages, but IMO those jobs are easier in Guix than in most popular package managers as well.
<zacts>mark_weaver: guix is definitely an improvement over pkgsrc and FreeBSD ports.
<zacts>which I've been used to..
<zacts>pkgsrc is _always_ broken and bloated
<mark_weaver>I used NetBSD and OpenBSD many years ago, so I'm familiar with the ports system. Indeed, Guix is much nicer.
<zacts>I even think that guix is much cooler than poudriere and pkgng
<zacts>anyway, I can't wait to install it.
<zacts>this is a project that I really want to work on.
<zacts>It really has caught my eye.
<mark_weaver>one reason I'm interested in Guix is that it should be relatively easy to make bit-for-bit reproducable builds of every package, so that anyone who wants can independently verify the authenticity of the binary packages we provide.
<mark_weaver>we're already pretty close to that, but there are a few more issues to deal with, like timestamps being inserted in the binaries.
<mark_weaver>anyway, going offline for a while. ttyl!
<quiliro>zacts: i know how to use the command line
<quiliro>but i was wonderng if university students that don-t know bash could
<zacts>ok, I gtg for tonight. I'll be back tomorrow. I'm getting bootstrap errors, none of which are mentioned in the HACKING.
<zacts>I figured it out
<zacts>I've successfully installed guix
<zacts>now I just have to learn how to use it as a normal user
*zacts reads the doc
<zacts>ok, what ports do I need to open in iptables to enable the guix command to connect to the guix-daemon?
<zacts>oops, I guess I mean how do I properly set up socket permissions?
<zacts>still a newbie so yeah..
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<zacts>when I run 'guix pull' I get: I see. guix pull: error: failed to connect to `/usr/local/var/nix/daemon-socket/socket': Connection refused
<zacts>the file exists, but the permissions are root:root
<viric>zacts: you have to run the daemon first
<zacts>viric: oh, I thought I did, but I guess I didn't
<viric>you need the listening part of the socket running, or you will get 'connection refused' :)
<zacts>what is the preferred way to start the guix daemon? I've been doing sudo guix-daemon ... &
<viric>ah, well, add rw access to the users with chmod to the socket
<zacts>(replace ... with other args to guix-daemon)
<zacts>and how should I start the daemon on boot, on a debian system?
<viric>I don't touch debian since hamm... no idea.
<zacts>hm.. I'll figure it out.
<mark_weaver>The MIPS N32 bootstrap is coming along nicely. I've built the final gcc, ncurses, readline, bash, libffi, libunistring, pkg-config, libgc, and ncurses. m4 failed one of its tests (test-readlink) with: ../build-aux/test-driver: line 95: 11915 Aborted "$@" > $log_file 2>&1
<viric>do you use any bitcoin?
<viric>it seems RMS quite likes bitcoin
<viric>I already asked yesterday, didn't I? hm
<mark_weaver>viric: do you have a reference on that (RMS quite liking bitcoin)? not that I doubt it, but I haven't heard him say it.
<viric>well, he was going to go to unsystem
<viric>And I think he mentions that in the talk at Berlin, at Pirate Partys'.
<mark_weaver>RMS attending an event does not mean that he supports it.
<viric>maybe I made it up... let me check
<mark_weaver>I saw that, and by the way they made sure to clarify that it did not imply an endorsement of the pirate party.
<viric>there are always listeners that don't care enough
<zacts>I got it to work
<zacts>but, I don't think I'm invoking the daemon in the best way..
<zacts>I'm currently using 'tmux' then 'sudo guix-daemon' then I detach tmux.
<viric>does guix-daemon fork into background?
<mark_weaver>zacts: did you pass "--build-users-group=guix-builder" to guix-daemon?
<zacts>I did
<zacts>viric: guix daemon doesn't fork for me
<mark_weaver>guix-daemon doesn't fork into the background by default
<mark_weaver>there might be a flag to fork it, but I've never bothered to use it so far.
<mark_weaver>according to guix-daemon --help, there's no such flag, at least not yet.
<viric>mark_weaver: "it would be really good if we could by things over the internet, and not identify ourselves."
<viric>buy things
<zacts>ok I did guix pull and got this error: guix pull: error: build failed: some substitutes for the outputs of derivation `/nix/store/j1mvq86k2kf4iq8dj3gmr68xxaznflnf-module-import.drv' failed; try `--fallback'
<mark_weaver>viric: right.
<viric>he didn't mention bitcoin, freicoin, or anything
<mark_weaver>RMS also said that sellers don't need to be anonymous. He at least implied that they shouldn't be anonymous, for varioua reasons.
<mark_weaver>is hydra still down?
<viric>Ah ok
<mark_weaver>if so, that might explain the problem zacts has run into.
<viric>I used it recently... I don't think it's down
<mark_weaver>I always run the daemon with --no-substitutes, since I prefer to build everything from source locally (even though it takes longer), so I don't actually use hydra.
<Guest58457>At his talk in Paris, RMS mentioned bitcoins.
<Guest58457>Hydra is there, but it does not compile new derivations.
<mark_weaver>when the hydra binaries are digitally signed and independently verifiable (with bit-for-bit identical reproducable builds), then I might start using it.
<Guest58457>It still serves existing ones, though.
<viric>Guest58457: un paris? the talk in french?
<Guest58457>viric: Yes.
<viric>september 21?
<Guest58457>No, September 20, There were two talks actually.
<viric>auhm. is that recorded and published?
<Guest58457>zacts: I always do "su", then "guix-daemon --... &".
<Guest58457>If you do not have "su", a good trick is to use "sudo su" ;-)
<viric>sudo -i
<mark_weaver>"sudo su" seems silly. there are better ways :)
<Guest58457>viric: See at
<Guest58457>viric: I tried to compile freicoin to test qt. We miss boost.
<viric>merci :)
<viric>Guest58457: ah I forgot about it wanting boost
<viric>in fact stallman has a talk on london 2012 bitcoin.
<mark_weaver>civodul: the MIPS N32 bootstrap is going nicely. I've built the final glibc, binutils, gcc, diffutils, findutils, perl, ncurses, readline, bash, libffi, libunistring, pkg-config, and libgc. one of the m4 tests causes an abort, though. time to investigate that further.
<civodul>hey mark_weaver
<civodul>good news
<civodul>i'm drowning in awful bugs FWIW ;-)
<civodul>the "guix pull" issue is terrrrible
<mark_weaver>drowning? that sounds quite bad. what bugs?
*mark_weaver looks for clues on the MLs
<civodul>the "guix pull" issue that was reported has to do with the order in which files are compiled
<civodul>something like that
<civodul>it's awful
<ae237859>This sounds bad indeed!
<viric>what is guix pull?
<viric>in short.
<mark_weaver>it upgrades guix itself, including its recipes.
<mark_weaver>sort of analogous to "apt-get update".
<viric>ah ok
<viric>quite like nix-pull
<mark_weaver>civodul: is the problem due to circular dependencies?
<civodul>viric: rather 'nix-channel --update'
<viric>ah right, nix-pull was about substitutes
<civodul>mark_weaver: no, i don't think so
<mark_weaver>hmm. one of the m4 tests expects readlink("", ...) to set errno to ENOENT, but on my Guix system, errno is set to EINVAL, which seems reasonable to me.
<mark_weaver>however, I'm surprised that others are not hit by this same problem.
<mark_weaver>blech. it seems that Linux has flip-flopped on whether to return EINVAL or ENOENT in this case:
<mark_weaver>for now, I guess I'll boot into my network-less 3.10.15 kernel just to build m4 :)