IRC channel logs


back to list of logs

<dasdadasdf>civodul: have you seen the pm i sent you?
<civodul>dasdadasdf: the pm?
<dasdadasdf>the private message, on irc
<civodul>ah, no
<dasdadasdf>do you see it now?
<civodul>maybe that doesn't work if you're not registered or something
<civodul>and you?
<civodul>so nice talk
<civodul>i'm a bit surprised rms didn't mention the history of GNU or anything like that
<usrnix>civodul: I imagine it's because he was talking to an audience of verteran free software activists so it was kinda redundant to explain much
<usrnix>I liked the condensed overview the the concerns we face though
<jxself>It's funny that people ask RMS to use Skype. It's like "Here - Let's email the President of the FSF and founder of the free software movement and ask him to use proprietary software."
<civodul>yeah :-)
<civodul>usrnix: yes, i liked that he started by listing current threats
<usrnix>jxself: prank emails from microsoft :P
<dasdadasdf>jxself: is there a recording of the dinner? or was it actually a dinner, so there was nothing to record?
<jxself>It was a dinner.
<jxself>I doubt it was recorded.
<jxself>.win 16
<DNS>jxself: win 16 i thought m$ is there with win 8, you have a demo version?
<DNS>lol jk
<youlysses>Okay, back for at least 2 or-so hours.
<jxself>Did you watch RMS?
<youlysses>jxself: Nope, just got home from eating -- there's some family weekend thing at the college down here and they were visiting my sister and asked if I wanted to eat. Now we're taking a short break, and probably meeting backup in said 2 or-so hours. I'm doubtful that there is a link already to download... :^U
<jxself>Okay - If you want it. There was a problem with the streaming source so it starts with and then continues at for after the stream back came. It's CC BY-ND as per usual for RMS's talks.
<youlysses>jxself: Much Appreciated. :^)
*civodul goes to sleep
<youlysses>civodul: Peace. o/
<zooko>Greetings, people of #guix!
<zooko>I'm at the gnu-30 party at MIT, hackathoning on Tahoe-LAFS.
<zooko>I would like to know if there's anything I can do to help guix-packaging of tahoe-lafs.
<zooko>I know that it was already packaged in nix.
<zooko>Hm... although there's something I don't understand. This page says that Nix has Tahoe-LAFS 1.9.2 in it:
<zooko>But this page shows Tahoe-LAFS 1.8.3:
<zooko>Oh, I guess automated unit tests on hydra broke while 1.8.3 was current.
<zooko>Anyway, I think guix is an awesome idea, and I want Tahoe-LAFS to be easy to include in guix packages.
<jxself>Most of the people in this channel are probably sleeping though.
<mark_weaver>jxself: btw, you were right about the YeeLoong 8101Bs no longer being produced. Apparently the one I just ordered was from stock.
<jxself>It's disappointing.
<c107>And, right now, the only good computers are form 2010 or 2011.
<c107>Ugh... My head is aching. I have to sleep. I hope I get those boring essays finished.
<jxself>Well, RMS did mention this in his talk today: Eventually we'll have to start making our own.
<jxself>Good night, c107.
<mark_weaver>indeed, we will have to take up that challenge. I guess Novena will be a good start, if the GPU can be reverse engineered (I don't remember those details though), and longer-term MilkyMist is quite promising.
<mark_weaver>was the audio quality better for RMS's talk?
<jxself>I didn't hear any buzz.
<mark_weaver>(though I know that the web feed was lost for much of the talk :-(
<jxself>A few minutes, I think.
<mark_weaver>the problem was a poor quality A->D converter.. I borrowed a high-quality one from MIT's radio station.
<mark_weaver>but I wish I'd made my own independent audio recording, at least.. but I thought the equipment would be more reliable :-(
<mark_weaver>apparently a power supply issue
<mark_weaver>they told me about 10 minutes were lost
<jxself>Was it that long? It didn't feel like it.
<mark_weaver>I don't know, it was Nico or Ward's estimate (I don't remember which)
<roelj>When I start emacs from a guix build I don't have the DeJaVu Mono font available. (When I start emacs provided by Debian I have this font). Is there some way to fix that?
<roelj>Is it the bitstream-vera package I need to install?
<davi>try it
<davi>and check it
<davi>However I do not think so
<davi>Maybe it is not packaged yet
<davi>It is said creating a guix package is very easy
<youlysses>roelj: To what I'm aware, Dejavu isn't packaged for Guix yet (I have interest in doing this), though vera (at least iirc) is what dejavu is based off -- so it should be aesthetically fairly similar.
<davi>I think Debian split it in three packages:
<davi>ttf-dejavu - Metapackage to pull in ttf-dejavu-core and ttf-dejavu-extra
<davi>ttf-dejavu-core - Vera font family derivate with additional characters
<davi>ttf-dejavu-extra - Vera font family derivate with additional characters
<roelj>Just out of curiosity, why can't it find the fonts installed in /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ ?
<davi>Maybe because Guix uses a different file-system organisation than Debian?
<youlysses>roelj: I'm by no-means an expert, but I'd assume because Guix distro is more-or-less self-contained. You could probably set load-paths to get everything working but I don't have the brain power, before I pass out -- to figure that out right now, sorry... :^P
<davi>roelj, Do you have X working?
<roelj>On Debian, yes. I haven't tried X with Guix to be honest..
<youlysses>davi: roelj: Assuming I have the free-time later and I can figure out what the problem I'm having building/installing cmake is -- I'll hopefully have the SLiM login-manager up and going, so at the very least -- it'll be easy to test xorg via the bootable qemu-image, in the relatively short-term. :^)
<youlysses>Okay -- well I'm going to try taking that nap again, I'll be back some-point later today, but I need to check over and submit a paper first, beforehand. :^)
<youlysses>Peace people o/ -- AFK.
<roelj>youlysses: That sounds pretty cool. I think I've found a solution for the missing DeJaVu fonts (make a symlink on $HOME/.font/).
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<davi>great youlysses
<davi>hi civodul
<civodul>youlysses: if you're done with gl.scm, you can post it and probably we'll just go ahead a commit it
<civodul>it seemed to be in a good shape yesterday already
<youlysses>civodul: I was actually going to see if I could get glew working, but I suppose I could just file a patch later for that. :^P
<youlysses>Well, nvm for now -- glew doesn't seem to have a ./configure either. :^P
<youlysses>civodul: Like repost it on the mailing list? I still haven't got my general git account info setup get. :^P
<civodul>youlysses: yes, please send the output of 'git format-patch' to the list
<civodul>you can double-check in 'HACKING' info about commit logs etc.
*civodul goes for lunch
<dasdadasdf>civodul: re mips: i changed bootstrap.scm like you did, but guix build failed while building make-boot0. it couldn't find bzip2. did i mess anything up, or should i simply install bzip2?
<civodul>dasdadasdf: could you paste what you have plus the error message?
<civodul>did you provide mips64el-linux/{mkdir,xz,bash,tar,guile-2.0.x.tar.xz}?
<civodul>under gnu/packages/bootstrap
<dasdadasdf>yes i added those files
<dasdadasdf>ok, i'll paste shortly
<dasdadasdf>civodul: check your inbox
*civodul checks
<dasdadasdf>i'm sorry that i can'
<dasdadasdf>t do it on my own
<civodul>don't be sorry
<civodul>i'm sorry the code is sufficiently clear to allow you to do it on your own ;-)
<civodul>dasdadasdf: check your inbox :-)
<civodul>this is an email notification channel
<dasdadasdf>bzip2 is present in the store
<dasdadasdf>civodul: ^
<civodul>dasdadasdf: in the specified directory?
<civodul>if so, can you check whether it runs?
<dasdadasdf>civodul: i'm getting "cannot execute binary file"
<dasdadasdf>yes in that directory
<dasdadasdf>civodul: the file command says "x86_64"
<civodul>ah, not good :-)
<civodul>dasdadasdf: it is the same for all the binaries or just that one?
<civodul>s/it is/is it/
<dasdadasdf>let me check
<dasdadasdf>civodul: it's only bzip
<usrnix>are package scripts in the gnu directory in guix things packaged as gnu guix and the nix dir are old packages from nix?
<dasdadasdf>usrnix: i don't understand your question
<dasdadasdf>usrnix: are you trying to say that /nix/store contains the packages from Nixpkgs, and gnu/packages contains the Guix packages?
<usrnix>dasdadasdf: yea
<dasdadasdf>usrnix: this is not the case
<dasdadasdf>usrnix: gnu/packages contains the recipes, i.e., package descriptions.
<civodul>Guix doesn't depend on Nix nor Nixpkgs
<civodul>spoiler: within a few months, we'll switch from /nix/store to /gnu/store :-)
<viric>good :)
<viric>will 'store' be the only citizen at /gnu?
<dasdadasdf>usrnix: /nix/store contains binaries and so-called derviations
<viric>I mean, is /gnu born at the same time as /gnu/store ?
<usrnix>dasdadasdf: Ah ok :)
<dasdadasdf>oops, not just binaries, but also docs, etc.
<civodul>viric: it's just a thought i had on the aesthetics of all this
<viric>ah ok
<civodul>there's no technical reason behind it
<civodul>aesthetics are über important ;-)
<dasdadasdf>usrnix: Guix and Nix can coexist, but i wouldn't recommend that since Nixpkgs contains nonfree programs
<dasdadasdf>you should be able to find a bit more in the manual
<dasdadasdf>civodul: so, any ideas regarding the bzip2 problem?
<civodul>lemme see
<civodul>dasdadasdf: BTW, did you see ?
<civodul>what does it say?
<dasdadasdf>lemme see
<civodul>dasdadasdf: bzip2 uses a crappy build system, that's the reason
<civodul>no 'configure' phase, etc.
<civodul>viric: you probably know how to cross-compile it, don't you? :-)
<viric>Cross-build bzip2?
<viric>nixpkgs should tell
<civodul>yeah, i've see crossAttrs.fooBar
<usrnix>what is base32 inside sha256?
<usrnix>is it a hash of a hash?
<usrnix>can I remote base32 and just put a sha256 in the package?
<civodul>usrnix: it just means that we provide the base32 representation of the hash
<usrnix>how do I generate one?
<civodul>if you remove 'base32', you have to provide a bytevector, which looks like #vu8(43 23 43 54 ...)
<civodul>that's not very convenient
<dasdadasdf>civodul: this article is well written. basically, it says the same as the announcement.
<dasdadasdf>hi zooko
<civodul>usrnix: you can use "guix hash" or "guix download" to get the base32 sha256
<civodul>hey zooko
<dasdadasdf>zooko: would you like to package anything?
<zooko>dasdadasdf: not right now -- we're organizing in-person hackathon at MIT right now...
<usrnix>civodul: so if I run guix hash on the sha256sum file?
<dasdadasdf>usrnix: iirc it would calculate sha256sum first, then convert it to base32
<dasdadasdf>civodul should be able to correct me if i'm wrong
<civodul>usrnix: no, just "guix hash foo.tar.gz"
<usrnix>Oh hash the file ok
<civodul>usrnix: see
<dasdadasdf>civodul: re bzip2: so is it necessary to patch the recipe? should I try that?
<usrnix>'guix download ..url..' produced 'guix download: error: failed to connect to `/usr/local/var/nix/daemon-socket/socket': No such file or directory'
*jxself wake up
<dasdadasdf>civodul: re the article: one comment says: "i don't understand why they don't use something like JavaScript instead of Guile"
<usrnix>because javascript is terrible and guile is awesome :)
<davexunit>javascript is a flawed language.
<dasdadasdf>most comments are quite similar, i.e. insane
<civodul>dasdadasdf: working on fixing bzip2 cross-compilation
<dasdadasdf>civodul: yay!
<civodul>insane comments reflect popularity
<dasdadasdf>another commenter suggests to change /nix/store/hash-package to /nix/store/package-hash. i think we should mention in the faq that people are not supposed to touch the store at all.
<civodul>in a few years, you'll see: "i don't understand why they use JavaScript and not Guile"
<dasdadasdf>we'll see
<civodul>usrnix: make sure the daemon is running
<davexunit>I write javascript at work, but I want to fight javascript being used outside of the web browser.
<civodul>usrnix: see
<usrnix>civodul: Yea I just went to run it with --build-users-group=guix-builder, do I have to add this group manually?
<davexunit>because quite simply: many better options exist.
<usrnix>ah I do, my bad ^^;
<civodul>davexunit: GNOME! :-)
<Steap>davexunit: what do you think of JS in Firefox OS ?:p
<dasdadasdf>davexunit: you may try to compile to JavaScript instead of writing it.
<davexunit>civodul: yeah, but at least there are other options with GNOME :)
<jxself>Ah, woot. I'm installing my first package into the VM.
<davexunit>as a web developer, I want to fight other web developers turning system level programming into psuedo-web programming.
<dasdadasdf>jxself: have you fixed the eth0 problem?
<davexunit>"no really guys, ruby and javascript aren't the only programming languages that exist!"
<dasdadasdf>jxself: iirc something was wrong with the net inside the vm
<jxself>It works enough that I can do guix package -i wget
<civodul>jxself: nice!
<civodul>how do you like it? ;-)
<jxself>It seems nice. :)
<usrnix>how do I list multiple inputs?
<dasdadasdf>usrnix: what do you mean by "inputs"? could you provide an example?
<usrnix>dasdadasdf: build deps
<dasdadasdf>iiuc, you may check the recipe (e.g., gnu/packages/autotools.scm) or build something with --dry-run.
<usrnix>ah yea it's just multiple brackets
*Steap fallsback to compiling packages a lot. Not sure whether it's because of Guile's http client or not :/
<usrnix>is it necessary to list pkg-config? that's a typical build-system thing isn't it?
<dasdadasdf>i'm not sure, civodul ^
<civodul>Steap: Hydra is kinda unhappy currently; what do you end up compiling?
<civodul>usrnix: yes, it's necessary to list it
<usrnix>civodul: ok thanks
<Steap>civodul: well, almost everything :)
<Steap>civodul: funnily enough, flex test suite fails on my machine
<dasdadasdf>civodul: maybe we should talk to djbclark regarding the access to Argonne National Labs
<civodul>Steap: i committed a fix this morning
<civodul>dasdadasdf: yes; he's the one who provided the machine to viric, who eventually gave it to me, who passed it to Andreas
<dasdadasdf>yes, i remember
<usrnix>"useradd -g guix-builder -G guix-builder" doesn't work in ubuntu?
<usrnix>my bad, it was a multiple-line command
<usrnix>although: "useradd: invalid shell '-c'"
<jxself>Oh, my VM has run out of space.
<dasdadasdf>usrnix: not sure about invalid shell, but do you know that ubuntu contains spyware and non-free packages?
<alip2890>if the store mustn't be touched, how do you change configuration files?
<usrnix>dasdadasdf: Yea, I'll get it off soon, put it to check harddrive was still alive and havent gotten around to removing it
<usrnix>just having difficulty getting the guix-daemon running, probably my fault for not reading properly
<usrnix>it seems to hang when i run the guix-daemon command
<dasdadasdf>there are tools to manipulate the store, but most users should be satisfied with the guix something commands
<dasdadasdf>alip2890: &
<usrnix>Ah. I was just thinking that, thanks
<civodul>jxself: it has little extra room :-/
<usrnix>how do I test a package I just made?
<dasdadasdf>usrnix: try to pass & after the command or try to install in a different tty
<civodul>usrnix: ./pre-inst-env guix build the-package
<usrnix>dasdadasdf: Yea I did and that worked
<jxself>So what do you think? I did it right?
*jxself thinks git is such a pain
<usrnix>civodul: it says unknown package, im putting the filename after build
<dasdadasdf>usrnix: it should be the name filed
<dasdadasdf>(name something)
<usrnix>oh, do I need to put my new package in a directory for guix to pick it up?
<dasdadasdf>jxself: looks good. can you build it?
<dasdadasdf>usrnix: recipes live under gnu/packages
<usrnix>dasdadasdf: in /nix/store/ ?
<dasdadasdf>in gnu/packages
<usrnix>but where's that?
<jxself>I suppose that's the next step to figure out.
<usrnix>I have to recompile guix to add another package?
<usrnix>Oh, maybe I'm confused because I installed guix and didn't just make it in a directory
<dasdadasdf>when you add it, just type make
<usrnix>ok thanks
<dasdadasdf>did you run make check, btw?
<dasdadasdf>... before you installed it
<dasdadasdf>it might save you a lot of time in case anything fails
<usrnix>dasdadasdf: I just did ./configure && make
<usrnix>running make again is just producing 'entering/leaving directory ...'
<dasdadasdf>then run "make check"
<dasdadasdf>after that you should be able to run ./pre-inst-env guix build -K your-package-name to test it
<jxself>Is there no text editor in the VM?
<usrnix>dasdadasdf: it seems stuck on "PASS: tests/hash.scm"
<dasdadasdf>it's testing
<dasdadasdf>it takes 10 minutes or so
<usrnix>ok I'll leave it going, nothing is using much power
<usrnix>Ah :P ok
<dasdadasdf>the whole testsuite
<usrnix>Is it needed for an unmodified tarball version?
<dasdadasdf>i may be wrong, but i don't think so.
<dasdadasdf>sorry, i assumed that you're using a git checkout.
<usrnix>Ah ok np dasdadasdf
<usrnix>On a wittle laptop, might take ages
<dasdadasdf>usrnix: if you want to package things, consider using the checkout.
<dasdadasdf>the tarball should work
<jxself>No, run from git - It's evil. :)
<dasdadasdf>but the git repo would have the latest and greatest
<dasdadasdf>... packages
<dasdadasdf>so yeah, i think you can try to build you package. again, sorry for the confusion.
<usrnix>Ha, looking at the gtk package, I don't think my gtk+ package is going to work :P
<civodul>usrnix: if you typed (define-module (gnu packages foo)), that needs to be stored in gnu/packages/foo.scm
<usrnix>Oh. Thankfully I didn't try that as root, it was about to compile a planets-worth of programs
<usrnix>civodul: You mean if I list a module it has to exist?
<alip2890>dasdadasdf, which tools do you have in mind for manipulating the store?
<dasdadasdf>jxself: i haven't tried the vm, but gnu/system/vm.scm has zile near the packages field.
<civodul>usrnix: modules start with 'define-module', and there's a mapping from the module name to the file name
<civodul>jxself: yes, Zile is in the VM
<dasdadasdf>alip2890: nix-store, for instance. they come with Nix
<usrnix>civodul: ok
*usrnix shuffles back to the docs to understand modules
<alip2890>dasdadasdf, thanks, will take a look at that
<jxself>I'll try that. Every one I've tried to install returns either "Protocol not supported" or "1 dependencies couldn't be built" so I gave up.
<dasdadasdf>but again, you usually shouldn't think about the store.
<alip2890>yes, but for example httpd won't work out of the box. you have to change some files
<usrnix>alip2890: those go in /etc?
<civodul>jxself: does "telnet http" work?
<civodul>if not, run "deco start networking" as root
<dasdadasdf>alip2890: i don't think that httpd is packaged
<alip2890>I did. :) I used (string-append "--sysconfdir=" (assoc-ref %outputs "out") "/etc/httpd"). Is it wrong?
<dasdadasdf>not sure that i understand, where did you use this?
<jxself>Ah, that seems to be it.
<jxself>Now to figure out how to build this new libogg...
<alip2890>dasdadasdf, in #:configure-flags
<alip2890>I mean, configuration stuff just goes in the store as everything else?
<civodul>dasdadasdf: bzip2 cross builds now!
<civodul>so you have to "guix build bootstrap-tarballs --target=mips64el-linux-gnuabi64"
<jxself>I guess I shouldn't be trying to do this work inside the VM.
<civodul>jxself: FWIW, you can safely install Guix atop your current distro
<civodul>in the worst case, you can just rm -rf /nix/store, basically
*civodul goes for a walk
<jxself>That might be better because I keep running out of space in the VM.
<Steap>jxself: are you running out of space or of inodes ? :p
<jxself>I get the usual "No space left on device" message.
<dasdadasdf>civodul: should i clone again and try it?
<dasdadasdf>civodul: ah got it
<dasdadasdf>alip2890: yes, it seems wrong, but i don't see enough context to be sure. could you paste your recipe along with any errors to the guix-devel list?
<dasdadasdf>i also have to go, ttyl
<usrnix> that's what I did for GTK3 btw, I can't test it because I'd have to compile gcc and all sorts of deps, my first attempt if anyone is interested
<Steap>usrnix: can't you try and use the substituter ?
<usrnix>I don't know I'm new to guix and I can't work on it right now
<civodul>BTW Steap: i routinely fill the 64 GiB partition of my store and i've never run out of inodes
<civodul>and has ~400 GiB
<civodul>and has like 4 TB in its store
<viric>I've run out of inodes in ext* formatted with default parameters.
<Steap>civodul: do you often run guix gc ?
<Steap>Is there a way to tell "guix package" something like "do not fallback to compiling stuff" ? :p
<civodul>Steap: i run the gc one in a while
<civodul>when playing with the QEMU image, that's quite often
<civodul>because each image is ~550 MiB
<civodul>re guix package, you can try --dry-run, and wait for Hydra to catch up if there's too much to build
<civodul>Steap: so, what is it that you end up rebuilding?
<civodul>oh, Guix is on the front page:
<Steap>civodul: don't know exactly, I stopped trying to build anything with my main machine when the temperature reached 94°C :) I switched to an old i686 box, the substituter seems to work
<civodul>hey, mark_weaver
<civodul>what's up in Boston?
<mark_weaver>I'm sitting here with davexunit, working on enhancing the Guile REPL to support a read hook, that would among other things allow the reading to be done in another thread (so that the REPL can essentially be run as a coroutine in the main thread of a event-driven program)
<mark_weaver>how goes the Guix hacking?
<civodul>mark_weaver: oh, sounds nice
<civodul>Guix hacking is pretty calm, but ok ;-)
<youlysses>Yah! Besides dropping a friend off, in two hours, I'm free for the rest of the night! :^)
<civodul>youlysses: cool! ;-)
<civodul>i may be asleep by then though
<youlysses>civodul: Sorry, I've been a lot more busy this weekend than I expected -- I do want to at least get gl.scm up (git patch-format doesn't seem to export anything (do I need a flag of any-sort)) and probably still slim.scm, though I'm still having the same issue on 0.4 on my native box -- though maybe I just need to try via the vm. :^)
<civodul>i don't know what problem you have with 0.4, but we can sort it out when you have time
<youlysses>That being said, I need, to get kbd working -- which seems to be problematic for some reason. :^/ It's not even getting to the inputs stage -- it's stalling at the patch-phase, saying "find-files: ./docs/doc/utf/??????: No such file or directory". :^U
<Steap>youlysses: in order to export your latest commit, you need to use git format-patch -1
<youlysses>Ah; So much to learn! :^)
<civodul>FYI our Git package now has two outputs in addition to the default one: "gui" (for gitk & co.), and "svn" (for git-svn)
<jxself>civodul: Of course it's on the front page ;)
<youlysses>Okay -- sorry my mom visited and said goodbye (visited for "parents weekend"), patch generated and finally I'm about to officially submit it to the mailing list. :^)
<habstinat>New to guix, but I managed to compile and install it on my gNewSense system. In my foolishness though, when installing emacs I did "sudo guix package -i emacs", thus installing it only for the root user. I have two questions: 1) is it possible to install packages in the "normal" paths like /usr/bin/ instead of in a sandboxed way? and 2) can I just "move over" my /root/.guix-profile to my
<habstinat>$USER_HOME/.guix-profile to get the package working as my regular user without reinstallation?
*Steap is finally done with gobject-introspection :)
<mark_weaver>habstinat: no, you can't just move it over. just re-run "guix package -i emacs" as your normal user.
*handheldCar tried guix but couldn't shut it down
<handheldCar>supposed to enjoy it forever?
<Steap>handheldCar: what do you mean by "shut it down" ?
<handheldCar>the gnu qemu img w/ 0.4
<handheldCar>is this related to dmd?
<Steap>oh, don't know really, haven't had the opportunity to test it yet