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<youlysses>Sorry, that took longer than expected -- minor emergency in/around the family. :^P
<youlysses>davexunit: I actually just responded to your mailing list post. :^)
<youlysses>I just finished ftgl -- and now I'm looking into packaging sdl. Any news about wingo releasing 0.1 of guile-figl?
<youlysses>I'm getting a "/nix/store/nx4sg06b3njclz7c3q0vn8x2v07vssrq-bash-4.2/bin/bash: ./configure: No such file or directory" during the configure phase, trying to build wpa_supplicant in my wireless.scm package ... do I need to add "bash" to inputs... or? (I've tried and it doesn't seem to be the case).
<youlysses>Here's the whole package and the error -- the latter is at the very bottom of the paste.
<davexunit>youlysses: I read your email. awesome to hear that you packaged ftgl!
<davexunit>I haven't heard anything more about figl.
<davexunit>I made my own tarball of figl for now.
<davexunit>to ease guile-2d installation.
<youlysses>davexunit: Link? That'll work for the time being and I can update the package expression when need. :^)
<davexunit>I have guix compiled on my system
<davexunit>in preparation for the hackathon
<davexunit>now it's a matter of knowing how to help.
<davexunit>gnu fm wants me on board with their hackathon so I will likely be dividing my time between both projects.
<youlysses>davexunit: I'm going to see if I can more-or-less trick guile into working without a set version number, but I might get back to you and bother you about appending "prerelease" or something. :^)
<youlysses>davexunit: Np, also very cool. :^)
<davexunit>youlysses: I could update the tarball.
<youlysses>davexunit: Give me a sec, I'll let you know if it'll work without one.
<youlysses>davexunit: I was able to "trick it", it's fine. :^)
<davexunit>youlysses: cool!
<davexunit>I have never released anything before
<davexunit>so I winged it with guile-2d
<davexunit>hope it's alright
<youlysses>davexunit: I'm sure it's fine, if not it's just a better learning experience! :^)
<davexunit>yeah I imagine people will let me know what I did wrong.
<davexunit>I didn't have time to do everything I wanted to do.
<davexunit>like make a manual worth reading and make a screencast
<davexunit>but I guess that will be the next release or something. :)
<davexunit>I wanted to just get something out the door today.
<youlysses>davexunit: Understandable; I have faith in-ya -- I'm really excited for it, in the long-term. :^)
<davexunit>and I also hope to attract a contributor or two.
<davexunit>making a release helps me towards that.
<youlysses>davexunit: I wish I had any such background in gamedev, because I'd love to -- but this will probably in-general be the means to get me into such-a realm, to start. :^)
<davexunit>I aim to make it simple.
<davexunit>it sort of is, right now. you can look at the examples and get a decent idea of how to do stuff.
*youlysses now just needs really good animation software -- dopey looks like it's somewhat full of potential.
<cky>So, who here is hacking on Guix at the GNU30 hackathon? :-) Also, what dinner plans do the Guix people want to have? (I apologise if that's already all been discussed---I only just joined the channel.)
*cky is currently visiting Boston and will be stoked to meet mark_weaver and whoever else will be at GNU30.
<mark_weaver>hey cky
<mark_weaver>I'm probably going to be working mostly on Guile, but maybe I'll try to work on things that are relevant to Guix :)
<cky>Cool, then I'll work on Guile too (especially the macro conversion project).
<mark_weaver>awesome! :)
<cky>Alas, my work is sitting on my home computer, not my laptop (and there is no VPN into my home network), so I guess I get to start over. ;-)
<cky>I'll be doing keysigning at the cryptoparty portion of the event, though, again, I can't actually sign keys until I get home. :-P
<mark_weaver>well, exchanging fingerprints is the important thing :)
<cky>I exchanged fingerprints with wingo last year; I don't know if he got around to signing my key yet. *checks keyservers*
<cky>Alas not. Maybe I need to prod him sometime. ;-)
<mark_weaver>by now he's probably lost your fingerprint :-/
<mark_weaver>cky: bummer about having to start over. instead, maybe you should work on converting macros that you haven't already done.. and then when you get home, you can submit those.
<cky>Sounds like a good idea, if I remember which ones I haven't touched. ;-)
<mark_weaver>cky: how did you decide to split your time between gnu30 and racketcon?
<cky>It's actually a good thing that the building shuts at midnight on Saturday (for the hackathon). According to Google Maps, the last train to come past Kendall Square is at about 12:35, which means I won't be stranded in Cambridge. :-P
<mark_weaver>cky: where are you staying?
<cky>mark_weaver: I'm attending GNU30 on Saturday and RacketCon on Sunday.
<cky>So I really have to get all my hacking done tomorrow.
<mark_weaver>sounds good :)
<cky>mark_weaver: Hostelling International, in Chinatown.
<cky>Yes, lots of tasty eateries nerby. In fact I'm about to head out to Dumpling Cafe, just around the corner.
<mark_weaver>okay, see you tomorrow!
<cky>Indeed, see you tomorrow. :-D
<youlysses>mark_weaver: cky: Fyi, I'm hosting an etherpad instance -- if you want to organize/visualize work there. Feel free and make a pad.
<cky>(In fact, that's the other nice thing about hostels: you get to meet other people. I only knew about Dumpling Cafe because I have two Singaporean roommates who recommended it. :-D)
<cky>youlysses: Ooh.
<mark_weaver>youlysses: cool, although since I like to live in emacs, I'd much prefer something that works with rudel.
<mark_weaver>youlysses: but it's appreciated nonetheless :)
<mark_weaver>cky: yeah, I definitely prefer to stay in hostels.
<cky>Totally, me too.
<youlysses>mark_weaver: Oh cool, never heard of it!
<youlysses>mark_weaver: I don't know, would you think gobby might be the better way to go?
<mark_weaver>youlysses: I'd certainly be more likely to use it, and I'm reasonably sure civodul feels the same way.
<mark_weaver>youlysses: however, it should be gobby 0.4.x, _not_ 0.5.x.
<youlysses>mark_weaver: Not compatible, or?
<mark_weaver>rudel only supports gobby 0.4.x. (the development version partially supports 0.5.x, but that's unfinished work)
<youlysses>Ok, writing a package for rudel in emacs.scm then -- I'm just going to assume, as you implied that most of those working on the hackathon will be emacs users anyway. :^)
<youlysses>mark_weaver: *
<mark_weaver>nice :)
<youlysses>So is there a way to skip the ./configure stage? Rudel like wpa_supplicant doesn't have one -- but I assume it still knows how to build.
<mark_weaver>I'm not the best person to ask. It's certainly possible to remove stages from the gnu build system, but it might be better to use a different build system instead. there might be one that's well suited to this, dunno.
<mark_weaver>my gut instinct is that it's better to not use the gnu-build-system at all for something without a configure script, because there are likely to be other differences as well.
<youlysses>Since this seems to be a fairly common problem, I'll probably just end-up waiting for civdoul to get back then. :^P
<mark_weaver>sounds good :)
<youlysses>I really need to go horns deep into some more of the inner-workings of Guix -- If Civodul wasn't such-a nice guy, I'm sure he would've given up on me by now... :^)
<mark_weaver>youlysses: did you watch Ludovic's presentation at GHM 2013?
<youlysses>mark_weaver: Yeah, might be a good idea to give it another glance before tomorrow really kicks off though...
<youlysses>That being said, I don't think I'm missing anything that was previously presented. :^P
<mark_weaver>anyway, time for me to sleep so that I'm not sleep-walking through the hackathon :)
<youlysses>mark_weaver: Peace. o/
*mark_weaver --> zzz
<youlysses>Okay, I'm going to shower and attempt a nap, Peace people. Probably AFK. o/
<jxself>Just booted that image in QEMU.
<youlysses>jxself: Everything working?
<jxself>Seems to so far.
<jxself>But it's been running for like 2 minutes.
<youlysses>I still need to figure out what's up with kbd.scm, for alternate keymaps...
<youlysses>jxself: Are you connected to the net? I was having problems initially.
<jxself>Yes I am connected.
<jxself>How else would I be talking to you? :)
<youlysses>jxself: Oh, I'm not saying in-general -- in the VM, it wasn't connecting to eth0 properly.
<jxself>Ah, yeah.
<jxself>I see I cannot ping, which I think you reported.
<jxself>But guix refresh seems to be working.
***Zer0 is now known as Guest81501
<youlysses>jxself: Run "deco start networking" as the root user.
<youlysses>Does ping return anything now?
<jxself>Nope. I got Services networking could not be started.
<jxself>er; I can't type correctly.
<youlysses>You get it?
<jxself>Hmm. Should guix package -I spit out a list of things currently installed?
<jxself>Or am I missing something?
<youlysses>jxself: Nope, but -A should've -- that being said, -i should be used not -I. :^P
<youlysses>Oh! Currently, yes.
<youlysses>Sorry --I should be napping now.
<jxself>Yes. Get to bed.
<youlysses>I thought you were saying not currently installed.
*jxself hands youlysses a pillow
*youlysses doesn't use pillows, besides under his legs.
<jxself>OK, so you know where to put it then. :)
<jxself>I should go to bed too. Good night.
<youlysses>jxself: Peace. o/
<civodul>Hello Guix!
<youlysses>civodul: So for wpa_supplicant, there isn't a configure-file... so obviously using the gnu-build-system fails. Any clue/idea what I should do?
<youlysses>Here's the actual expression and output, from earlier;
<youlysses>SDL is along the same-lines, seeing it doesn't have a make target for check, though I think this could just be skipped over somehow -- and not need an actual build system to be implemented?
<youlysses>Just thought I'd get that out there, I'm going to attempt another go at a short nap, but feel free to respond -- I'll have the log. AFK.
<janneke>hello Guix!
<civodul>youlysses: ah, so this isn't an easy target
<civodul>i'd suggest to start with something that has ./configure to get familiar with Guix
<civodul>youlysses: did you manage to build freeglut, BTW?
<civodul>youlysses: for the "check" target of SDL, you can write #:tests? #f to disable the "make check" phase
<civodul>hey janneke
<civodul>LilyPond is missing from the distro (hint, hint! ;-))
<janneke>civodul: :-)
<janneke>civodul: i'm still hoping/wondering if i can transplant GUB's functionality to Guix -- if that's a good match...
<civodul>yeah, there's some overlap, but Guix is very much oriented toward building a GNU distro ATM
<civodul>whereas GUB can be used to cross-compile for MinGW, right?
<civodul>i mean that's something Guix could do, except that it insists on the functional model with /nix/store
<civodul>so, dunno
<janneke>civodul: GUB's most prominent features are: 1) cross-building to mingw, osx, freebsd, linux32, etc
<janneke>civodul: 2) runtime dynamic relocation of everything (ie: providing binary packages that can be installed anywhere, e.g. in your ~/)
<civodul>for (1), Guix has cross-compilation support but only to GNU/Linux currently:
<civodul>and i'm not interested in cross-building to non-free systems
<janneke>civodul: 3) create binary packages based on glibc 2.3, so that the gnu/linux binaries run on any gnu/linux distro, no matter how old
<janneke>civodul: yeah, i can imagine
<civodul>for (2), this very much requires package-dependent patching (we do a little bit of that for bootstrapping purposes)
<janneke>civodul: lilypond's mission is superb music notation for everyone, so we provide binary packages for everyone
<civodul>yes, that makes sense
<janneke>civodul: it is a questionable strategy, however... i dunno
<civodul>well, i think time has come to move toward a "system" approach
<civodul>and really making that more and more of *the* target for GNU packages
<civodul>hey people, GNU Hurd 0.5 released!
*civodul will be AFK from ~1h
<janneke>civodul: wow, URL?
<civodul>so, hackathon!
<civodul>if you're looking for something to package, check
*usrnix salutes
<civodul>welcome, usrnix :-)
<usrnix>civodul: Thanks, hope I can be helpful
<civodul>no doubt about it :-)
<civodul>to start with, if you can install Guix and report any problems you have, that's great
<usrnix>ok :)
<civodul>nice way to get started ;-)
***civodul changes topic to 'GNU Guix --- --- 0.4 is out! --- GNU birthday hackathon! ---'
<usrnix>Was funny initially finding guix, months back I typed up a concept fs-hierarchy with all system packages under /nix, someone beat me to it
<civodul>a good place to get started with packaging is by populating gnu/packages/oggvorbis.scm:
<civodul>it lacks some of the Xiph packages, and these are usually quite simple to package
<civodul>so what's up here?
<civodul>i don't see any patches or bug reports on the mailing lists :-)
<usrnix>I think people might be a bit absorbed by the FSF stream with the man standing next to balloons
<youlysses>civodul: Hey, I'm back -- sorry I actually was able to take a nap. For some reason, I don't know why freeglut isn't picking up half of my inputs, while in other packages, the same inputs work fine... (glu is packaged though).
<civodul>usrnix: ah, i can imagine
<civodul>usrnix: you're in Boston too?
<civodul>youlysses: could you send to your current version of the package, the command you typed to build it, the error you get, and what you think is wrong?
<civodul>i find it hard to communicate all that via pastebin + IRC
<usrnix>civodul: No, I wish, UK. I was just seeing if I could get GNU/linux on my desktop but it's a pain for some reason so I'll stick with my laptop for now, preferred to used Debian for trying Guix but will have to begrudgingly stick with Ubuntu for now
<civodul>yeah, Ubuntu has the problem that it comes with non-free software and with spyware...
<civodul>still, you should be able to use Guix on top of it
<youlysses>civodul: Sure, give me ten or-so minutes.
<civodul>sure, np :-)
<usrnix>civodul: Yea, I guess I can at least test that, I only installed it because my free debian install had some sort of catastrophic implosion and won't boot and I couldn't remember what non-free I needed if any so just used ubuntu quickly but haven't yet gotten rid of it ^^;
<jxself>usrnix: That person standing next to the balloons is John Sullivan.
<mark_weaver>jxself: are you watching a live video feed?
*civodul was about to ask
<mark_weaver>(I'm in that room)
<jxself>He's staring into a laptop.
<usrnix>Is he meditating while watching gcc output?
<mark_weaver>I'm trying to decide what to work on today. My Thinkpad has a dying backlight, and I've basically transitioned back to the YeeLoong anyway, so I can't really do much on Guix itself ATM, but I was thinking of working on some Guile projects that are relevant to Guix. Any suggestions?
<jxself>According to the the schedule, isn't a "Welcome from John Sullivan supposed to have started already?
<mark_weaver>Obviously, I'd like to work on getting Guix running on the YeeLoong, but that will involve long waits for things to compile, so maybe not the best thing to work on here.
<usrnix>... I thought I was #fsf, so many familiar names gets me confused
<jxself>Ah, slides!
<usrnix>jxself: I think so, maybe technical issues?
<usrnix>or delay
<civodul>mark_weaver: the HTTP client! :-)
<mark_weaver>jxself: yes, I guess maybe the idea is that hackers tend to be late for things :)
<civodul>mark_weaver: the syscalls patch!
*civodul could probably come up with others if needed ;-)
<mark_weaver>civodul: sounds good. questions: which syscalls patch? and what things do you need improved in the HTTP client? just speed, or something else too?
<usrnix>civodul: Just looking at that git page you sent on xiph packages, are these packages ones that'll be installed from source so all that needs putting in the lispy file is a description of the packagel, deps and such?
<civodul>mark_weaver: yes, the bug report about the HTTP client speed
<civodul>mark_weaver: and the syscalls patch is what we have in Guix, that provides 'mount', 'set-network-interface', 'load-linux-kernel', etc.
<jxself>John needs to speak louder.
<mark_weaver>ah, right. okay :)
<jxself>When asking if people can hear him.
<civodul>some of them are portable enough to go in Guile proper
<civodul>the volume of the video stream is very very low
<testin123>Just updated someone should make sure that's cool. Was also thinking of putting more "why GUIX is cool and possibly very useful to the Free Software movement" type stuff up.
<civodul>damn it
<civodul>so the sound is not only low, but also noisy
<jxself>VLC can amplify
<usrnix>Try use VLC to boost the volume if needed
<mark_weaver>I'll inquire about it and try to get it fixed after the talk.
<jxself>I have external powered speakers and that helps
<jxself>But the buzz is there, yeah
<civodul>yeah, that's very annoying
<civodul>vlc works better for amplification
<civodul>it just amplifies the buzz as well ;-)
<mark_weaver>does it sound like 60 Hz?
<jxself>Perhaps the buzz is a subconscious message to use free software. :)
<mark_weaver>as for the noise, no doubt something in the audio chain is at too low a level, and then getting amplified in a later stage.
<testin123>Just updated with hackathon info as some stuff points there. Someone who works on the project might want to make sure it's cool. I was thinking of adding more stuff about why GUIX is possibly really useful to the Free Software movement later.
<testin123>sorry wrong thing in my copy buffer
<civodul>as a radio person, you may be able to fix that, no? ;-)
<civodul>missing ground or something?
<jxself>80%? Heh.
<mark_weaver>yeah, it's definitely in my skill set, although I'm been more focused on free software lately.
<testin123>I mean
<mark_weaver>I'll inquire later.
<jxself>Woot, that's me! :)
***testin123 is now known as djbclark
<mark_weaver>jxself: hey, special mention for you! :)
<jxself>Yeah. That was nice.
***djbclark is now known as djbclark_strgd
<civodul>oh, he left
<civodul>that looks OK, except for the spelling of "Guix"
<mark_weaver>civodul: were you talking about djbclark? What's his role in this event?
<youlysses>civodul: Sent -- also I sent a build-log and where it seems to go astray.
<civodul>mark_weaver: don't know
<civodul>youlysses: cool, thanks!
<civodul>i'll check it out and reply
<civodul>being responsive is my job this week-end ;-)
<mark_weaver>(djbclark is a former FSF staff sysadmin, and the one who runs, which sold me my first YeeLoong)
<youlysses>civodul: For SDL, does passing "#test? #f" go in "arguments" or? I can't seem to find any examples of this in packages. :^P
<civodul>youlysses: yes, in 'arguments', but it's written #:tests? #f
<civodul>grep in the surrounding files for examples
<civodul>who's the current speaker?
<mark_weaver>is the audio quality still bad?
*civodul stopped listening, because it's too noisy
<usrnix>it seriously is, if anyone has a Xiph persons phone number, call them and get them over there!
<jxself>Rob Savoye!
<civodul>ooh, so that's him!
<civodul>djbclark_rusty: so the web page is good, except for the spelling of "Guix" ;-)
<youlysses>civodul: Is it good form, if a program has a 3rd party optional dependency -- that's for a sample/demo program, that we should include it in the package?
<civodul>youlysses: if it's a separate package, keep it separate
<civodul>in general, we follow what upstream does
<djbclark_rusty>civodul: just the capitalization, or is it messed in another way as well?
<civodul>the capitalization yes; it should be "Guix"
<djbclark_rusty>civodul: think fixed that now
<civodul>thanks :-)
<civodul>would have been great to have speakers from GCC, GDB, libc, Coreutils, etc.
<youlysses>civodul: Okay -- then ftgl is done; It's dependent on freeglut.scm (glu dependency though) -- should I wait till it get's the kinks get knocked out on freeglut, or upload anyway? (FTGL also spews this warning, that freetype is being called twice, but whenever I remove the "unnecessary" module and related input, the build complains freetype is not available.)
<youlysses>Unrelated, where's the stream at? I couldn't seem to find it easily on GNU30, just a list of related streams. :^U
<mark_weaver>well, I'm in the A/V room now, and the levels on the main board are definitely far too low, but the tech here is not entirely clear which output feed is going to the web feed, and which is going to the room speakers, so we're afraid of booing the room volume too much and causing feedback..
<civodul>youlysses: you can post as well to get feedback
<jxself>These are large room numbers.
<civodul>mark_weaver: ok
<civodul>youlysses: i haven't received your first post though, perhaps because that's your first post to guix-devel
<youlysses>civodul: I'll check my sent and make sure it came through -- but I'm pretty sure it did?
<civodul>youlysses: yeah it's probably just that it's being held by Mailman
<civodul>youlysses: next time, you can Cc if you want
<jxself>Oh, Guix!
<civodul>yeah, heard that ;-)
<civodul>the pronounciation was wrong though ;-)
<civodul>oh we're on TV :-)
<youlysses>civodul: I checked out my sent-mail -- though, and it doesn't actually appear to be there... unless it actually has to be received and submitted, which doesn't seem right?
<youlysses>Oh, yeah it is -- just not being stored under my webmail account, but locally on my computer ... and I was going to use Evolution, because I didn't trust my current GNUS config. :^P
<youlysses>It's the same method that sent my guile-2d response yesterday, so I'd imagine it should work.
<civodul>don't worry, just be patient :-)
<roelj>I am wondering something about Guix.. Is it something like APT in debian?
<civodul>roelj: yes it's package manager like APT, but it also has different features, like transactional upgrades & roll-back
<civodul>and a focus on build reproducibility
<civodul>and, it's also a distribution of GNU
<civodul>more info on :-)
<roelj>How does it downloads and installs a program so it can be used?
<roelj>Does it compile from source?
<roelj>Or does it have a binary package like APT?
<civodul>it does transparent binary/source deployment
<mark_weaver>okay, I've spent a bunch of time talking to the audio tech here. We're going to do some tests after the talks here and hopefully improve the audio.
<civodul>roelj: which means the user chooses whether to build from source or get pre-built binaries
<djbclark_rusty>IMHO it's probably also the best framework by which GNU OS could be built in a deterministic way, to fight the problems explained in
<civodul>djbclark_rusty: exactly
<civodul>this is something some of us are interested in
<roelj>Woah, that sounds really cool. Can it be used next to APT?
<civodul>djbclark_rusty: we have that "fixed-point project" going on, FWIW:
<civodul>roelj: yes it can!
<mark_weaver>djbclark_rusty: are you physically at the gnu30 event in cambridge?
<mark_weaver>(I got my new YeeLoong from Tekmote, so I won't bother you about that :)
<djbclark_rusty>mark_weaver: Not sure I'll get to the event due to mitigating circumstances, but I could provide pretty sweet off-hours hacking space / free food to anyone who is. Actually if you are in Cambridge I have hardware you can probably just have. Including a fuloong... if I end up having time I was thinking of seeing if I can port the NixOS mipsel port to Guix for teh lulz.
<civodul>end of stream
<jxself>Well I enjoyed that.
<civodul>djbclark_rusty: you remember Andreas (of Guix) got one of the MIPS box you initially offerred to NixOS hackers? :-)
<youlysses>civodul: ftgl sent.
<civodul>that port has been on-going work, but it got delated due to various complications
<civodul>notably wanting to support the N64 ABI
<civodul>but anyway, the more the merrier, so help is welcome!
<civodul>youlysses: did you Cc me?
<djbclark_rusty>civodul: I remember so little.
<civodul>heh ;-)
<youlysses>civodul: Woops, forgot -- I'll resend a copy directly to you.
<civodul>djbclark_rusty: the latest news in that area is
<civodul>in short, we should be able to bootstrap the distro now, that "just has to be done"
<djbclark_rusty>IMHO that should probably not be a focus of the hackathon.
<civodul>yeah, just mentioning it in case you were eager to hack on that ;-)
<civodul>for the hackathon i would mostly like feedback about installations, and packaging
<djbclark_rusty>But I do have hardware I can get to people that might help with speed. Specifically a lot of fuloongs that could in theory probably work with something like distcc (although I remember something else maybe being better... icecream maybe), a 3a machine, and a Sicortex.
<youlysses>civodul: Okay, should've sent. If you want -- I can also send you freeglut directly too.
<djbclark_rusty>I wish I knew more about compiling. For example, if a non-loongson MIPS computer would be useful. Because I have a 72-processor mips64-based computer, and access to one at Argonne National Labs which has like 6000.
<civodul>oh, good
<civodul>eventually we may want to add one for automated builds
<mark_weaver>djbclark_rusty: sweet, sounds awesome, thanks much :)
<mark_weaver>(chatting with audio techs now)
<civodul>youlysses: received ftgl, but i can't really test since it needs freeglut
<civodul>i can comment, though
<youlysses>civodul: I sent it a minute or two ago.
<civodul>youlysses: just replied, you should be able to make progress ;-)
<civodul>blech, the Bison update broke Flex, but i don't understand what's wrong
<mark_weaver>okay, it seems that I'll be working more on helping with audio than with the hackathon today. it's a greater need at the moment.
<civodul>mark_weaver: but there's no stream currently, is there?
<mark_weaver>no, but I want to make sure we have better audio for RMS's talk.
<mark_weaver>okay, going offline for a while. ttyl!
*civodul goes AFK for ~1h
<youlysses>civodul: Oh wow, that did the trick! :^)
<youlysses>Peace. o/
<viric>o/ hackers!
<jxself>Is the call of the gnu as it roams the savannah.
<antithesis>If guix is based on nix, how come it doesn't have as many packages available?
<jxself>Distros are born with a full complement of packages?
<antithesis>If you make an exact copy of a package manager, it can fetch packages from the same sources, right?
<jxself>I'm not sure it makes sense for Guix to copy theirs as-is anyway? Seems to be they're are not committed to only including free software.
<jxself>So, there is to address that part.
<antithesis>There's more than 400 free software packages, though
<Steap>we still need to write our own package definitions, using our DSL :)
*youlysses really needs to learn to use grep better. :^U
<roelj>Sorry to disturb again. I'm trying to build Guix, so I did "./bootstrap" and now "./configure". But configure fails saying: checking whether libgcrypt can be dynamically loaded... ./configure: line 7280: syntax error near unexpected token `retval,'
<roelj>./configure: line 7280: ` GUILE_CHECK(retval,'
<roelj>What should I do to fix this?
<roelj>Oh, I fixed it by running ./bootstrap again. (I didn't have guile-2.0-dev installed the first time)
<roelj>graphviz is also a dependency to build the software using "make". Maybe it could be added to the dependency list in the README..
<civodul>youlysses: did you get a chance to fix freeglut as suggested?
<youlysses>civodul: I think everything besides figuring out #:rename... also, fyi -- slim needs cmake to build.
<civodul>youlysses: so instead of #:use-module (guix licenses), you can do: #:use-modules ((guix licenses) #:renamer (symbol-prefix-proc 'license:))
<civodul>(it's not a smiley)
<civodul>that that will prefix all the variables exported by the (guix licenses) module with 'license:
<civodul>see what i mean?
<civodul>youlysses: CMake builds fine actually:
<youlysses>civodul: Yeah, I tried that earlier -- but it results in all my packages in gl.scm, not being found. :^/
<civodul>youlysses: ah, when that happens, remember to do this to get details: ./pre-inst-env guile -c '(use-modules (gnu packages gl))'
<civodul>can you try that?
<youlysses>Syntax error: /home/jsgrant/guix-0.4/gnu/packages/gl.scm:20:17: define-module: unknown keyword or bad argument in subform ((guix licenses) #:renamer (symbol-prefix-proc (quote license:))) of #:use-modules
<civodul>it's #:use-module, without 's'
<youlysses>Ah, the only one I ended up doing that on. :^P
<civodul>all: remember that the hackathon is this week-end, so let's grow the distro and fix bugs! :-)
<civodul>Steap: what happened to gobject-introspection?
<youlysses>Now my license is unbounded though, I assumed I was supposed to now interject something along the lines of '(license (license:x11-style "file://COPYING" "See COPYING in the distribution."))', but I it still seems to say "unbound variable: x11. :^/
<civodul>youlysses: can you paste that somewhere?
<civodul>youlysses: that's because you still have a couple of (license x11), but since you installed a renamer, that needs to be changed to (license license:x11)
<civodul>because 'x11' is a variable exported by (guix licenses), and so it's been locally prefixed by 'license:'
<Steap>civodul: it should be there soon enough, but I haven't been on the computer too much today, since my connection has been on-and-off since yesterday
<youlysses>civodul: Yah, then I actually think it's "done" now! :^D
<youlysses>Does it look stylistically okay?
<Steap>civodul: I got at least 2/3 disconnections every hour, drives me crazy
<civodul>youlysses: yep
<civodul>youlysses: you still need to fix the copyright line, tho ;-)
<Steap>civodul: I hope it gets better soon, since I need a proper connection to work on Monday :)
<civodul>Steap: you actually need it *now* :-)
<youlysses>civodul: I'm not sure how that works, do I just append my name, or remove yours, etc, etc?
<civodul>youlysses: also the (license ...) field must be aligned with the other fields
<Steap>civodul: indeed, but if I don't have one on Monday, I'm not even gonna be able to get a paycheck to buy myself food.
<Steap>I'll then die, without having packaged gobject-introspection
<civodul>youlysses: you did it all yourself, so you can write your name and address in the copyright line
<civodul>i'm assuming you're the copyright holder
<civodul>that is, this is personal work, and not on behalf of a company or something
<civodul>Steap: understood
<youlysses>civodul: Well... being intellectually honest -- I'm not sure how true that is, you've been an invaluable resource. I really do appreciate the help and hopefully I wasn't a *huge* bother... :^I
<civodul>Steap: hopefully you can find a library, a bar, or something with Internet access, in the worst case
<civodul>youlysses: well, that's fine ;-)
<civodul>one could almost argue that it's not copyrightable anyway
<Steap>civodul: btw, we do not make contirbutors sign the FSF stuff ?
<Steap>civodul: or even a laboratory :)
<civodul>and don't worry about bothering me ;-)
<civodul>Steap: we don't do copyright assignment, as you've noticed i suppose :-P
<civodul>a laboratory?
<Steap>civodul: yes, the question was "why ?"
<civodul>that's a choice
<Steap>civodul: yeah, I used to work in a lab, and they still let me in :)
<civodul>i know :-)
<civodul>but they have nothing to do with Guix
<Steap>civodul: oh ok, I thought it was mandatory for all GNU projects
<civodul>no, that's a common misconception
<civodul>it's an option, but i find it easier to work without it
<civodul>and there's not much at stake in this case
<civodul>i mean, it's not GCC or anything like that
<Steap>As you might have guessed, I'm pleased with not signing anything :)
<Steap>civodul: is this some sort of Contributor License Agreement, as in Ubuntu ?
<civodul>well, that's a copyright assignment
<civodul>so one agrees to assign its copyright to the FSF for GNU foo, for all past and future contributions, for instance
<jxself>If it helps.
<civodul>yes, thanks
<bubu>hello, soon a(nother) decent distro to install ^^ keep up the good work
<civodul>heh thanks
<civodul>did you try that incredible QEMU image?
<youlysses>civodul: That reminds me, something real funky was going on via my kbd package expression -- but give me a sec, I'm posting the gl.scm expression to the mailing list.
<ecelis>hi, I know this is alpha, the qemu image is nice, I wonder if there are alternatives such an LXC template to avoid the emulation layer overhead
<ecelis>if there is not such lxc template, do you think it will be useful to have one available?
<youlysses>Aw, plymouth seems to depend on systemd. :^/
<bubu>civodul, yes I did ^^
<davexunit>hey everyone
<Steap>Everything depends on systemd.
<youlysses>Steap: Well, as-far as I know -- at least GNOME didn't decide on it, for a strong depend. :^)
<Steap>youlysses: the Gnome packager in OpenBSD seems quite concerned about systemd, though
*youlysses really wishes that GNOME would releases that "GNOME OS" already -- so he'd have a means to test it out, easily, every release or-so. Maybe that's something that Guix might eventually be appealing to, but I'd assume there'd have to be somesort of packagekit interface foc it.
<youlysses>Steap: As-in it might eventually fall this way, or it already slowly is?
<Steap>youlysses: iirc, systemd was "not mandatory but strongly recommended" for some Gnome applications
<Steap>and he feared that eventually, he'd be forced to use systemd, which is not possible on OpenBSD
<Steap>and since Lennart, well... doesn't give a fuck about anything else than Linux 3.12-rc1
<youlysses>Steap: Maybe since the upstream GNU distro isn't going systemd, then that'll give GNOME a better chance at not "fully" shifting over....? Probably wishful thinking.
<Steap>I hope so.
<Steap>Even though I haven't been using Gnome in years :)
<youlysses>Steap: It's probably been a good year and now-a-days, I couldn't imagine going back to a full DE -- but if there was one I would if I could and would recommend to friends and family, GNOME3.x is very, very high on that billing.
<Steap>youlysses: I've never been able to figure out how to use Gnome 3.x and Unity
<Steap>Awesome WM, on the other hand... :)
<youlysses>Steap: "Figure out" -- you mean the use-case, or actually using it effectively?
<c107>Anyone like Stump WM?
<youlysses>c107: Love it -- though most of the love is the mode-line. I want to implement a more-or-less static area like that, in emacs, for more system related stuff.
<youlysses>I'm really excited for Guile-WM, in the short-term though. :^)
<Steap>youlysses: like "where the fuck am I supposed to click to get stuff done and how does it work"
<youlysses>Steap: Weird? I found it really, really easy -- like so-easy, that if I didn't get off it, I didn't think I'd learn anything about the lower-level GNU+Linux ecosystem. :^P
<dasdadasdf>youlysses: do you use emacs to indent your scheme code?
<c107>youlysses: Why short-term? I prefer Scheme.
<c107>youlysses: I'd prefer that both Emacs and Stump were written with Guile Scheme.
<Steap>youlysses: funny :) I really could not do anything with either of them... Quite frustrating.
<youlysses>dasdadasdf: Geiser, yeah -- for the most-part.
<dasdadasdf>youlysses: i'm asking because there are several problems with indentation in your gl patch
<dasdadasdf>youlysses: Steap has already addressed some of them.
<dasdadasdf>would it be better to comment on the list or right here?
<youlysses>dasdadasdf: Yup.
<youlysses>Mailing list is easier to track, unless it's one or two minor things.
<dasdadasdf>a bit more. i'll send a mail in a couple of minutes
<youlysses>c107: I'm saying in the long-term, I would prefer the whole of my computing to be via Emacs -- that would mean a writing a wayland compositor in Guile, especially for Emacs and eventually a widget-system.
<roelj>Sorry to interrupt. I'm having a problem running "guix package --install=emacs": guix package: error: failed to connect to `/usr/local/var/nix/daemon-socket/socket': Connection refused
<youlysses>roelj: Did you start the daemon as root?
<roelj>youlysses: I don't think so.. how can I do that?
*youlysses wonders why his emails take so long to get posted on the mailing list...
<youlysses>roelj: First of all, did you make a guix-builders group?
<roelj>youlysses: No.. Is there a manual I missed?
<youlysses>roelj: Yeah, there's a texinfo manual included.
<roelj>Alright, thanks. And sorry for the interrupt.
<youlysses>It's in Instillation > Setting Up The Daemon.
<youlysses>roelj: Np, it's fine. :^)
<c107>Is there a distro with Guix by default?
<youlysses>c107: Yeah, GNU. :^)
<c107>youlysses: Which GNU?
<jxself>The GNU GNU.
<youlysses>There's more information the mailing-list, on how to boot-it.
<roelj>Guix is plain brilliant..!
<c107>Where's the stream of the RMS talk?
<c107>It sounds like it. I'm going to try it ASAP.
<davexunit>mark_weaver is working on making that stream sound nice
<davexunit>apparently the stream from earlier today was abyssmal
<c107>BTW, I'm glad someone said /ɡənuː ɡuːɪks/.
<jxself>A countdown for c107
<youlysses>jxself: Will it be recorded somewhere...? My mom is actually visiting my sister for the weekend, and asked me out to an early dinner around then. :^U
<c107>jxself: I have that, but I don't know where the stream is. How can I hear?
<jxself>c107: Go to
<jxself>And yes, it is being recorded.
<youlysses>Cool, because that would've been a bummer. :^I
*c107 sees blank Icecast page.
<jxself>c107: Look at the countdown timer.
<jxself>It's not at zero yet.
<c107>Okay, okay. I thought they'd be broadcasting random noise from the meeting room.
<c107>...before the talk.
<jxself>No, after John's welcome talk it was shut down for the hackathon.
<jxself>I expect it'll come back on sometime before RMS shows up in the room but I don't knoe exactly when it'll return.
<c107>Wait, jxself, did you sleep?
<jxself>I did take a small nap, as much as I could before the cats decided to come visit me and insist that they needed attention.
<youlysses>How would I replace the 2.8.1 with the version holding the same value in "mirror://sourceforge/project/freeglut/freeglut/2.8.1/freeglut-"?
<civodul>jxself: i don't see any countdown on
<jxself>There isn't one.
<civodul>ah ok
<civodul>that must be the reason :-)
<jxself>I just found some random place to do a countdown.
<civodul>youlysses: (string-append "mirror://sourceforge/project/freeglut/freeglut/" version "/freeglut-" version ".tar.gz")
<youlysses>It all makes so-much sense now. Wow, I really need to eat something today...
<dasdadasdf>youlysses: i've just sent a reply
<dasdadasdf>hopefully, i didn't mess up anything
<jxself>youlysses: So no sleeping *or* eating?
<youlysses>jxself: I live a wonderfully non-destructive lifestyle -- Yeah, I'll sometimes only eat 1 or-so meals a day, sometimes none, sometimes I eat all day. Sleep is at least a consistent mess. :^P
<civodul>argh, Tor is unstable it seems
<civodul>oh, and dasdadasdf!
<civodul>that's you!
<civodul>good to see you here
<dasdadasdf>i decided that you may need some help with possible volunteers
<civodul>yes, that's appreciated
<civodul>though youlysses is really *the* volunteer currently ;-)
<civodul>but note that the hackathon is open to die-hard Guixers like you & Steap :-)
<civodul>so if you feel like making a breakthrough somewhere in Guix, now's the time
<dasdadasdf>yeah i'm going to work on mips tonight
<dasdadasdf>btw thanks for handling the problem with delete-generations. i messed up
<civodul>well i hadn't noticed either
<youlysses>Here's hopefully the last paste, until I upload... does this look correct now?
<civodul>youlysses: looks good to me!
<civodul>i assume you were careful about checking licensing and other issues, right?
<civodul>a good resource to look at when in doubt is
<civodul>hey viric :-)
<youlysses>civodul: Oh, somehow the SGI free B v2 was removed from glu... was that ever added to licenses.scm? I could probably add it, if not -- it looks easy enough.
<youlysses>The rest is Mit, which looks like it's the same as x11.
<civodul>youlysses: according to you can just use 'x11-style'
<dasdadasdf>youlysses: we usually use a single line to split the definitions.
<youlysses>dasdadasdf: Can you further define "a single line"?
<dasdadasdf>youlysses: remove one empty line before define-public
<youlysses>Oh! Sorry... yeah.
*civodul is glad someone is even more picky than himself :-)
<youlysses>civodul: So is x11-style, different from just x11?
<civodul>youlysses: yes, so you would write (license:x11-style "")
<dasdadasdf>civodul: re prefixes: i find that 'l looks better, but it's not a big deal
<civodul>ah ok, fine with me
<dasdadasdf>will there be other live streams tonight?
<dasdadasdf>jxself: ^
<jxself>I only know of the RMS one.
<jxself>And the one earlier from John.
<youlysses>dasdadasdf: Okay, prefix changed to just l:
<dasdadasdf>haha, thank you
<youlysses>I'm turning an error, when trying to run '(license l:x11-style "")' now.
<civodul>what error?
<dasdadasdf>i think you could just use #:renamer since x11-style shouldn't clash with anything else
<dasdadasdf>grep gnu/packages for examples
<civodul>we're in the (French) news:
<civodul>i'm a bit jealous though, because the Hurd gets instant press coverage
<youlysses>I'm about to leave for an early dinner, in about ten minutes -- and I'm hoping getting some-more food, well allow me to think sustainability clearer...
*youlysses wonders how-far Guix from being usable on the Hurd.
<civodul>youlysses: you mean the opposite, right? ;-)
<civodul>well it needs to be bootstrapped
<civodul>and now we have the tarballs, so no excuse
<civodul>except that we lack a tarball for glibc
<dasdadasdf>youlysses: i believe that the error was raised because of the uri in the license field
<viric>what are 'the tarballs'?
<dasdadasdf>it should look like this: '(license l:x11-style)
<youlysses>civodul: Well either way, I'm excited -- though the Hurd still needs alternative keyboard support. It's still very hard to adapt back to qwerty, from dvorak -- reliably. :^)
<civodul>viric: there had been no source releases of the Hurd, Mach, and MiG in 10+ years
<civodul>so Debian was just using checkouts of these
<viric>ah ok
<dasdadasdf>but as i said, it would be even better to use #:renamer. than you'll be able to drop the 'l prefix
<civodul>youlysses: it uses Xorg's xkb thing, so that should work, no?
<civodul>dasdadasdf: you mean #:select, right?
<youlysses>Ugh -- I really have to start getting ready now, or I'll be late with my Mom.... Sorry, I'll be back in like 2:30 - 3 hours and have a good two to finish up and submit the hopefully at that point, corrected expression.
<dasdadasdf>see you
<jxself>Music & lyrics to keep us occupied. :)
<dasdadasdf>nice, thanks for sharing
<civodul>jxself: fun :-)
<davexunit>hey guys. how has the hackathon been going?
<davexunit>I've been helping people install gnu fm today, but am interested in fitting in some guile hacking.
<davexunit>since I haven't actually written any real code today. :)
<civodul>davexunit: you're very welcome!
<civodul>youlysses earned the title of New Contributor of the Day
<civodul>and we're looking for others to earn that title
<davexunit>yay youlysses!
<davexunit>I think the gnu fm hackathon is wrapping up.
<civodul>how many people were there?
<davexunit>I wish I wrote code, but I did help 3 people get a server running.
<davexunit>there's like 5 people in here. the other rooms are far more popular.
<davexunit>rms has walked through the hallways a few times.
<jxself>15 minutes!
*davexunit is thinking about migrating to the room
*civodul pushes a couple more packages
<civodul>any volunteer to package GTK+ 3?
<civodul>while waiting for rms to start talking
<usrnix>civodul: does that just involve making a file with the guile script with the description/version/url/sha256?
<civodul>usrnix: yes, that, and then building it and making sure it actually builds
<civodul>it could be 5mn if you're lucky
<civodul>(5 days if you're not)
<usrnix>haha ok
<usrnix>btw, installing guile2.0 on ubuntu doesn't satisfy the build requirements for guix
<dasdadasdf>usrnix: could you paste the error?
<jxself>10 minutes!
<civodul>the full list of requirements is at
<dasdadasdf>are you installing from the tarball or git?
<usrnix>apt going through it's trove of repos just shows how slow my laptop can be
<usrnix>dasdadasdf: tarball
<usrnix>running ./configure && make, 'No package guile-2.0 found'
<usrnix>on guix-0.4
<civodul>you probably need to apt-get install guile-2.0-dev
<civodul>and pkg-config
<viric>the live video from fsf isn't really 15fps, is it?
<usrnix>it's pretty low, saves bandwidth I guess
<usrnix>FSF isn't exactly a video streaming company :P
<viric>:) understood
<viric>around fsf... I see a preference for theora over vp8
<usrnix>‍I guess vp8 is just newer, easier to stick with what you know
<viric>only that? ok
<viric>vp9 is out there already though. vp8 isn't that new :)
<usrnix>civodul: probably right, that wasn't installed, thought I did that
<usrnix>viric: I don't think it's seen huge adoption really, people just prefer their slightly older stuff that works everywhere
<civodul>4 minutes!
<viric>it makes me feel a bit alone in my use of vp8 everywhere
*jxself uses VP8
<usrnix>I download videos from youtube in VP8
<viric>I feel better, thank you :
<usrnix>Maybe FSF uses ogg because older browsers can run it and it's less cpu intensive to only encode one stream
<viric>I asked because I thought maybe FSF has some issue with VP8 I don't know about
<usrnix>Na it's all good
<jxself>Rule #1: RMS is never on time.
<jxself>Rule #2: See rule 1.
<c107>At least he answers emails on time.
<jxself>But on his schedule.
<viric>no live stream I guess
<jxself>Are we there yet? :)
<jxself>It's back
<viric>ah yes
<viric>the low frame rate, judging by the motion blur, looks like coming from the exposure time. not bandwidth saving
<civodul>the long exposure makes for a clearer but blurrier picture
<civodul>there's no sound, right?
<dasdadasdf>i don't hear anything
<viric>neither I
<civodul>presumably mark_weaver is still working on it ;-)
<viric>so the light from the picture is fake. It may be a very dark room :)
<civodul>possibly :-)
<viric>I'm doing golang programming while in #guix watching RMS. I hope this is Kosher.
<viric>Is that a yeelong with guix packages, civodul ?
<civodul>that must be a Yeeloong, yes :-)
<civodul>looks like there's gonna be an auction too
<viric>I don't think a yeeloong can decode vp8
<civodul>i don't think he's watching the live stream anyway ;-)
<civodul>oh, looks like johns is speaking no?
<viric>he has a mic
<civodul>i don't have any sound
<viric>Now I got the sound.
<dasdadasdf>i see "hello"
<civodul>ah now!
<viric>later than dasdadasdf, because I have mplayer with a 4096K cache
<civodul>and no buzz
<civodul>cup cakes!
<civodul>is it dead?
<dasdadasdf>it seems
<civodul>damn it
<civodul>davexunit: do you know what's going on?
<viric>it's the price of free software, sometimes
<civodul>maybe the machine just can't cope with all the connections
<viric>we should ask the icecast hackroom
<viric>all that goes unicast, right? It may be tough. But on the other hand, that is USA.
<davexunit>civodul: there's someone working on it
<civodul>ok, thanks
<civodul>it's back!
<davexunit>rms is talking about iThings
<viric>mh I get 'codec not found'
<dasdadasdf>viric: try with vlc
<viric>ffplay handles it
<viric>mplayer not. Thank you dasdadasdf
<civodul>talking about vlc...
<viric>civodul: ?
<civodul>vlc changed its license from GPL to LGPL, apparently for the sake of being allows in Apple's store
<viric>Ah! I didn't know. I thought it was still gpl.
<usrnix>civodul: I just mentioned this in FSF, glad I was right :)
<dasdadasdf>civodul: have you heard the recent oggcast?
<dasdadasdf>it discusses this issue
<davexunit>vlc made a bad move.
<usrnix>I guess totem all the way now
<jxself>here it comes
<viric>gnunet gnunet
<viric>isn't gnu consensus to be written over gnunet?
<dasdadasdf>civodul: re mips: so i replaced all the (uri (map ...)) things with (uri "/home/user/something") and ran guix build -i hello
<civodul>dasdadasdf: not just (uri ...); the whole (origin ...) thing
<dasdadasdf>civodul: oh...
<civodul>that is, you can write (package (source "/foo/bar") ...)
<dasdadasdf>so can I omit everything else (like inputs)?
<dasdadasdf>i'm confused since you told me that i shouldn't touch %bootstrap-coreutils&co, but it seems impossible because it uses package-from-tarball
<dasdadasdf>and that function doesn't have an argument to change the source
<civodul>dasdadasdf: it should look like
<civodul>this is what i did for fixed point
<dasdadasdf>civodul: got it.