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<rekado_>just read this in a presentation for our lab: “patent is critical for further grants”
<civodul>that's wrong though? (i hope?)
<civodul>hey zimoun!
<rekado_>civodul: it’s sobering.
<rekado_>it’s really uncomfortable to feel the need to change a project so that a patent can come out of it just to be allowed to continue working on it.
<rekado_>it’s disappointing to see this in the context of a pure research institute.
<civodul>it's even outrageous
<civodul>but do EU FP calls even encourage that?
<civodul>or is it just misunderstanding on the part of the folks speaking?
<zimoun>what appears to me bad, it is that I am earing similar “message” here in France.
<civodul>i haven't noticed (yet?)
<zimoun>maybe it is when “medical doctor” are around :-P
<rekado_>yes, I think it’s something to do with whatever touches on clinical uses
<rekado_>this project is about detecting and classifying heart attacks from blood samples; and it looks like funding sources are exhausted unless it produces “IP”
<rekado_>the MDC has a department for “technology transfer” (= commercialization), but I always assumed I could ignore them.
<efraim>zimoun: I'm checking out your julia patches but I ran 'guix gc' recently. I forgot how slowly julia packages can build sometimes
<civodul>rekado_: it's a general trend (we have an almighty "technology tranfer" dept., which pours public money in startups, including startup projects that have nothing to do with the institute!)
<civodul>i think we should regain control of our institutes
<zimoun>efraim, thanks. Now, the Julia build-system honnors --max-jobs.
<zimoun>so it should be a little faster.
<zimoun>Although the series implies a Julia-world rebuild. :-)
<zimoun>efraim: thanks for the quick Julia review.
<efraim>zimoun: it was either that or auditing my own go packages :)
<civodul>zimoun: had we agreed that we can remove the deprecation warning for "guix hash -r", and keep "-r" as an alias?
<civodul>i vaguely remember we discussed it, but i'm not sure what the outcome was
<zimoun>civodul, yes we agreed. :-)
<zimoun>the short alias only, IIRC.
<civodul>i'll make that change, then!
<zimoun>civodul: you splitted the Café Guix by year, for my imformation, why?
<civodul>as mentioned on mattermost, it's mostly that i realized i was sending an announcement for a 2022 event at a 2021 URL
<civodul>that looked confusing
<civodul>(and since nobody was acting, i did what sounded good to me :-))
<zimoun>heh! It makes sense. I missed that the URL contains the year. :-)
<zimoun> (sorry I do not follow too much mattermost :-)
<zimoun>civodul: a beautiful example of broken world :/ It means that ~2000 of packages from 2020 are lost…
<drakonis>ah, its all being memory holed isnt it
<civodul>zimoun: uh, maybe not all hope is lost
<zimoun>civodul, if you have a plan, I am all ear :-)
<civodul>but yeah, the chances of losing source keep decreasing
<drakonis>try pulling from swh?
<civodul>zimoun: the plan in this case is to look for the original tarball on machines we have access to
<civodul>no magic!
<zimoun>civodul, nckx already did, I guess.
<zimoun>nckx is the magic ;-)
<civodul>without success?
*civodul tries
*nckx no magic :(
<nckx>I'm trying to think of old forgotten machines I might have access to, but no.
<drakonis>can't you fetch it from a git mirror?
<nckx>Git mirror of tarballs?
<drakonis>attempt to acquire the tarball off a commit
<nckx>I am not going to even try making a bit-identical .tar.xz based on the supposed git checkout that produced the original.
<drakonis>the particular file server that imagemagick's tarball only stores the latest minor release
<drakonis>up to the latest
<nckx>drakonis: That's not what I thought:
<nckx>Unless they have some very specific versioning scheme.
<drakonis>it got relocated to releases
<nckx>I don't understand what you're trying to say.
<drakonis>one sec i'm being distracted
<nckx>Sunsite is just a mirror (if it ever goes away I will be sad and the Internet will have officially died, but still).
<drakonis>if you look into the file directory i linked, it always stores the latest minor version of the major releases
<drakonis>older releases get moved to a different directory
<nckx>But are you sure this is relevant to the problem?
<mbakke>I found a copy in a CentOS source tarball and uploaded it here:
<drakonis>its really not, sadly.
<nckx>drakonis: *You* linked the top-level directory. I linked /releases.
<drakonis>since you can't amend the time machine
<nckx>mbakke: Sweet!
<drakonis>that also helps.
<nckx>I found the source rpm but I didn't realise they contained the full .tar.xz (I don't even know how to unpack an .rpm).
<drakonis>srpms are good.
<nckx>(How do you? I'd rather not install rpm, but I will, if it's for good.)
<nckx>Can I just string together a series of obsolete archivers like cpio and ar together instead, though?
<drakonis>^ this is how you do debian though
<mbakke>nckx: I have access to a RHEL workstation and just rpm --install'd it, I assume cpio would do the job too
<drakonis>but the process is the same
<nckx>drakonis: .deb was the only one I'm vaguely familiar with. The last RPM distro I used was literally a box, filled with literal floppies, from the literal local library. If you remember all 3 things: high five, your childhood was also rad.
<zimoun>mbakke: or rpm2cpio, I do not know.
<nckx>Isn't that just part of rpm tho'.
<drakonis>its cpio, yeah.
<drakonis>rpm2cpio /location/of/package.src.rpm | cpio -d -i
<nckx>Anyway, I feel silly now, having found the srpm early and ignored it. I'll go sit in the silly corner.
<nckx>With the hat yes.
<nckx>drakonis: There's no rpm --extract? Weird? No?
<drakonis>dont worry about it
<drakonis>no there isnt
<drakonis>i just tried to invoke it
<nckx>That's a bit odd.
<drakonis>so, i'm building a nix daemon from scratch
<mbakke>drakonis: in guile? ;-)
<drakonis>ha, i'll look into doing it in guile
<drakonis>i'm fiddling with common lisp right now
<drakonis>i'll work into the guile version first then get back to the cl rewrite
<nckx>You still have more than 2.5 months to announce a Common Lisp Guix daemon…
<drakonis>is it still a worthy goal to pursue doing it in cl?
<drakonis>also that's an oddly specific timeframe :v
<drakonis>what's in 2.5 months?
<nckx>(1 April…)
<drakonis>i mean, there is value to doing it in cl
<drakonis>its just going to be less maintainable i guess
<nckx>It's closer to Guile.
<nckx>I guess.
<drakonis>in a way.
<zimoun>Maxime provided the link: guix download
<drakonis>its a lot better at handling failure
<nckx>Then someone will rewrite yours in Racket, and we'll asymptotically approach a Guile daemon.
<drakonis>there's a different route though
<drakonis>there's someone writing a scheme using cl
<nckx>Is bad exception handling in the current daemon a problem?
<drakonis>it'd make for a far more maintainable option
<drakonis>best of both worlds i tell ya
<nckx>Why CL at all?
<drakonis>because its development/debugging experience is just best in class
<nckx>I don't believe C++ is any less maintainable than Guile. It's less maintainable by a bunch of ragtag Guile heads, but CL will suffer the same fate.
<drakonis>also restarts are very useful
<drakonis>i'm not much of a fan of having to restart a build because of a error
<drakonis>being able to directly work on the failed environment and resume is very useful
<drakonis>there are other things i wanted to do with a cl based guix though
<drakonis>but i suppose it might still be doable with guile, at great cost to guix itself
<drakonis>i'll admit that i feel kinda bad to be talking about this
<drakonis>because you all have been nothing but excellent to me
<drakonis>by the way, how exactly do you daemonize something in guile?
<drakonis>do you just run it on loop and add all the signals and such?
<drakonis>signal handling, i mean.
<civodul>efraim: BTW, Python 2.4 in Guix-Past fails to build:
<civodul>hmm almost, but not quite
<civodul>ah Maxime & zimoun found it, good!
<civodul>fixed! :-)
<nckx>civodul: (How) is that protected now?
<civodul>nckx: it's not!
<civodul>but hopefully samplet will add it to the Disarchive db somehow
<civodul>anyway we need to discuss it
<rekado_>on the topic of science funding:
<civodul>(or, JS- and tracking-free: <>)
<civodul>yeah, this is terrible