<zimoun>ahah! Conda slides are *exactly* why we have Replication Crisis. It adds mess instead of explaining where does come from the issue about compational environment and try to fix. Sigh!
<zimoun>Something that I always find weird when we speak about reproduce a computional environment. If the package manager depends on resolver for dependencies, then, because resolvers have barely unique solution (at least, there is no guarantee), the reproducibility is broken by design.
<zimoun>So why are they explaining at length it fits reproducible framework. Arf, buzzword surf ?
<zimoun>civodul, about kept forever, many facts prove it is a wrong asumption. It is already wrong about source code (For instances, SWH. :-)). Why would it be a valid asumption for binaries?
<zimoun>Yes, a bit of bitterness. :-) Well, I am fine to say: hey this tool just works. But I am not fine to say: hey and in addition, this tool is a solution for that. When the design of the tool cannot make the second statement true.
<zimoun>Especially by scientists; because either they miss reviews of what others do and why they do so or either they are unethical. Aside that the World is full of concrete examples that the statement is just false. :-)
<rekado>zimoun: binaries *can* be kept “forever”. Unlike source code these binaries are under the control of the project.
<zimoun>about “forever”. Nah, it happens now because we are able to waste resources. I am not convinced that 1. it is a wise strategy, scientifically speaking; and 2. future-soon resource-less world will switch this paradigm of wasting.
<zimoun>Bah, ok I stop to ramble on. :-) And I am going back for real work fixing this broken world. ;-)
<civodul>rekado: i remember that from my Debian days but in hindsight that seems totally crazy to me :-)
<civodul>those days when "apt-get install hello" would kindly inform you that glibc would be upgraded and xfree86 (!) would be removed
<rekado>yeah, I have the same feeling. It’s hard for me to change my perspective to see this as a good idea.
<zimoun>rekado: yeah, thanks. I will put it somewhere for collective edition. :-)
<rekado>in the case of Galaxy, for example, it seems insane to me to let Conda have any say in what packages exactly to install when the whole point is to install a well-known set of packages.
<zimoun>civodul: do you know if a Scheme interpreter is implemented in Coq?
<rekado>when binaries are “forever” archived and uniquely identified then a lock file like this solves a *lot* of problems already
<zimoun>yeah, Julia Pkg uses something like that; with some UUID.
<rekado>doesn’t help with source->binary transparency which is a non-negotiable requirement for reproducibility, but it would be better than getting a mystery environment depending on how the solver feels today.