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<civodul>there's an "interesting" debate about software deployment tools on the major French mailing list for HPC, maths, etc.
<civodul>so far Spack is winning, with the argument that "everyone knows Python"
<civodul>hey zimoun``!
<civodul>i was mentioning that discussion on the mailing list just before
<zimoun``>and with the argument: we do as X because X is big and X is doing “module” because users have already the habit. Well, kind of chicken-eggs problems! :-)
<civodul>does Spack actually has Module integration?
<civodul>i mean it's reasonable to be wary of new tools, esp. if they look alien
<civodul>so perhaps what this means is that we're still +/- at the stage where those we can convince among scientists are "fearless" tinkerers
<civodul>and hopefully in turn they'll convince more conservative folks
<zimoun``>Yes, I thought once try to wrap guix commands in order to have almost a drop-in replacement for modules, for example “module load” doing under the hood “guix environment –ad-hoc”. Well, something like that. But then I do not use modules and I do not have scripts with module. :-) So low motivation
<zimoun``>One way to convince “scientists” and part of the conservative folks is to show real-world examples which are impossible to do with their tools. For example, 10 years challenge and this kind of stuff. :-)
<civodul>we could have a tool that generates module files too
<civodul>though i admit i have a hard time thinking it's this harder for people to type "guix install" or similar
<zimoun``>I do not know what people/user are doing with module so complicated that it is hard to switch. :-) To me, it is only “module load foo/x.y.z” and unload, search, avail and that’s it! Something runs on the interactive node or in the launching script (basically shell) for the job scheduler. Maybe sometime a call directly from a Python script via bindings.
<zimoun``>With a wrapper around Guix, they do not have to change anything in the script files
<zimoun``>Well, maybe it is more an issue for the admin: rewritte doc, change training session and examples, etc. Than an issue for the cluster users – and their “habits” :-)
<rekado>one thing that keeps coming up when people recommend Spack (or conda for that matter) is: no need for a root daemon.
<rekado>the special /gnu directory might be another
<rekado>perhaps all it takes is a setuid thing (enabled via configure flag, perhaps) and one of the “guix pack -RR” hacks for /gnu
<rekado>installation by people without root access could really help
<civodul>i'm thinking about making the next binary tarball a -RR one