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<daviid>leoprikler: went afk, but your last example is a good example tx

<daviid>leoprikler: can you tell me, in guile-gi, short name gf are not 'made' at all, or are made but using a prefix or postfix?

<leoprikler>Guile-GI internally creates short names for everything that GI marks as a method.

<leoprikler>However, Guile-GI strongly encourages the use of modules, specifically through the (use-typelibs ...) syntax.

<daviid>leoprikler: yes, so does g-golf, but what about shrt names hat are guile core syntax, like begin?

<daviid>i was answering the first sentence

<leoprikler>So it just lets them bind those as well and then uses module magic to filter out unwanted imports.

<daviid>every oe should use modules

<daviid>so there are filtered out

<leoprikler>no, what I mean, is that instead of importing stuff directly into your script as seen in the example you posted

<daviid>not made into generic funtion usingh a prefix, postifx or both then?

<leoprikler>Guile-GI creates modules internally (e.g. (%gi Gtk-3.0)) when using that syntax

<leoprikler>And upon importing from (%gi Gtk-3.0), you can add a #:renamer

<daviid>that doesn't sound like something i want to do in g-golf, but thanks

<leoprikler>And they also have a renamer function, that takes a (list of) symbol(s), an optional prefix and an optional suffix (the default being just prefixing everything with '%)

<daviid>ok tx. I think

<leoprikler>IIUC G-Golf binds stuff directly in the module

<leoprikler>perhaps you could take the renamer as an optional argument in your functions or use a fluid

<daviid>leoprikler: methods are added to their generic function, those are added to the public interface of (g-golf hl-api gobject) - which from a user point of view is an impĺementation detail I would say - to your last suggestion, maybe

<daviid>but I didn't think to oofer renaming 'facilities', and wrt short name methods, when they exist as guile core syntax, I t am thinking to rename those using a postfix _ as

<daviid>like begin_

<daviid>lambda_

<leoprikler>underline looks pretty weird in lisp imo

<leoprikler>Also note, that you can't just hardcode Guile core syntax and say "Yep, I'm done".

<daviid>I don't want to prefix, and certainly not using %, which is used both in guile and g-golf ... but postfix and offer a default char to be used sounds good to me

<daviid>i don' understand yur last sentence

<daviid>ok, I am going to implement what I just described and see how that goes, will let you vknow, and others 'here', when it's done, so you may try

<leoprikler>The last sentence was w.r.t. "when they exist as guile core syntax" – your users might have more stuff to protect. In Guile-GI for instance, there are several testcases protecting test-begin etc. because Guile-GI "long" names don't have the namespace in them and therefore the GLib test module clashes with SRFI-64.

<leoprikler>You may not have that exact problem, but you could still run into cases where a short name clashes with custom syntax from non-core stuff.

<leoprikler>Not sure what meaning it would carry in Scheme, but Vala uses the "@" prefix for functions that would override syntax.

<daviid>leoprikler: are you developing a gnome app in another language? just curious

<daviid>leoprikler: long names, from imported typelib, should be unique in the universe :)

<leoprikler>I think they are in G-Golf, because you have the full name, no? e.g. gtk-window-destroy.

<daviid>right, as for other language binding, by long name, we mean the 'original function or method name

<leoprikler>Well, Guile-GI doesn't really have those. It has short names and long short names, because the namespace is always discarded.

<daviid>I won't prefix, but thanks for the suggestion

<leoprikler>I'm not quite sure why, though.

<leoprikler>My GNOME experience is mostly through some small Vala applets.

<leoprikler>I once wrote a music player with bindings to Guile way before G-Golf or Guile-GI were ready for use.

<leoprikler>(music = mpd)

<daviid>did you use guile-gnome?

<leoprikler>Nope. For one, I was using Guile 3 and it also failed to build horribly back then.

<leoprikler>ehhh GNOME 3

<daviid>ok

<leoprikler>"I was using Guile 3 way back in the past" yeah right xD

<daviid>any link i can look at with some your vala gnome app code?

<daviid>oh i see some cxode here, forget about 'my request' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vala_(programming_language) - has a gtk mini example

<leoprikler>Sadly no. I never published it, because I couldn't settle on a name.

<leoprikler>My next big project will get a Greek letter, I swear.

<dsmith>sneek: version

<sneek>Sneeky bot running on Guile version 3.0.0 using bobot++ release.2.3.1-6-a463-dirty

<dsmith>!uptime

<sneek> 20:51:59 up 89 days, 9:24, 1 user, load average: 1.00, 1.01, 1.05

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<dsmith>sneek: botsnack

<sneek>:)

<dsmith>sneek: version

<dsmith>sneek: botsnack

<sneek>:)

<dsmith>sneek: version

<sneek>Sneeky bot running on Guile version 3.0.3 using bobot++ something from git

<dsmith>!uptime

<sneek> 22:29:41 up 89 days, 11:02, 2 users, load average: 0.08, 0.54, 0.93

<dsmith>Weird. the bobot revsion went away.

<dsmith>But the bot is now on 3.0.3!

*sneek dances

<daviid>dsmith: congrat! that debugginh session with RhodiumToad was quite impressive by the way

<dsmith>heh

<dsmith>Was nice to work though it with someonw

<daviid>definitely

<dsmith>OOps. Used the wrong bobotcode. THat's why the version was broke.

<dsmith>sneek: version

<sneek>Sneeky bot running on Guile version 3.0.3 using bobot++ release.2.3.1-6-a463-dirty

<dsmith>Yesss

<daviid>I am thinking (and locally experimenting) to remove numbering from g-golf's manual - none of the gnome libs have numbering, even for the most 'sophisticated' and biggest one, like Gtk - I've always found their manual quite 'beautiful' and efficient

<daviid>dsmith: as you may have seen, i decided to go for %gi-method-short-names-skip, for the time being at least ... which can take 'all, 'none (or '()), or a list of (symbol) names ...

<dsmith>Is fine

<dsmith>I don't know what recent gnome manuals look like, but the old app manuals I remember looking at were horrible. Nothing more than regurgitating the menus in the app.

<dsmith>While I was looking for gtk stying info..

<daviid>oh really? I don't think they changed that much - but i can't see how numbering section/subsectios would help anyway - here is the gtk top page https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/index.html

<daviid>and here is the GtkBocx, just as an example https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/GtkBox.html

<daviid>I 'copied' their way of presenting thing for g-golf, here is an example https://www.gnu.org/software/g-golf/manual/html_node/Repository.html#Repository

<daviid>anyway, I am procrastinating :)

<daviid>this part of the g-golf nmanual is for cotributors, I need to spend time on the user one

<daviid>now, I need another variable name :)

<daviid>for this trailing/postfix char or string that will be used when a method short name 'clashes' with a user or guile core syntax name ... like begin -> begin_

<daviid>maybe %gi-method-short-names-'something'

<daviid>%gi-method-short-names-res-postfix - with res for resolution, which i could dscribe in the manual ....

<daviid>or just %gi-method-short-names-postfix

<tohoyn>sneek, botsnack

<dsmith>Have you considered a prefix?

<sneek>:)

<dsmith>Doesn't clojure or something do that with java interop? Like a "." prefix?

<daviid>dsmith: no, these short names are made by removing their respective container's name, and i want/wish uers may immediately know what the shortname would be ... then use #\Tab to complete ...

<daviid>dsmith: the java . is for accesor -

<daviid>g-golf uses ! as a prefix for all accessors, internals and iported one3s

<daviid>here we are talking about renaming method short names if their name clashes with a user or guile core syntax name

<dsmith>Will there always be the postfix, or just on names that collide with scheme syntax/special-forms ?

<daviid>mind you I could as well propose a lambda if you and other users prefer to prefix ... and having the default mto postfix using _

<daviid>just on names that collide

<daviid>so, gtk-window-add -> add, but gcr-secret-exchange-begin -> begin_

<dsmith>Feels kind of kludgy. But I don't have a better suggestion.

<daviid>the _ being a default, and the var name I am looking for could be changed by the user

<dsmith>Would have a documented list of known colliders? A way to add more?

<daviid>what I think is this: 1- postfix is better in thiese cases; 2- the _ postfix char is kind of a good choice because it is never (likely wil never) be used by anyone 'else where'

<daviid>dsmith: no, all this is runtime

<daviid>I am not aware of ... so far, just begin actually

<dsmith>load is syntax in guile (!) But by macro wizardry you can pass it to a second-oder function, like to map.

<daviid>load is a syntax, didn't know :)

<dsmith>SOmething about source locations.

<daviid>but anyway, all this will be/is meant to be automatic, so we'd have begin_, load_

<daviid>or something decided by the user

<daviid>assuming one postfix char, what would be a good var name - or maybe i shold defie a var that holds a lambda, default would be the above, but users could pass the lambda of their dream ...

<daviid>%gi-short-names-protect (to use the guile-gi terminology) - (lambda (name) 'add a _ trailer'), the users could pass their own

<daviid>I think I'll do that

<daviid>%gi-short-names-protect bound by default to a lambda that postfix using _, but then users may do absolutely whatever they want ...

<daviid>then everybody is happy :)

<dsmith>All problems can be solved by another layer of indirection..

<dsmith>(or suitable application of high explosives)

<dsmith>(or too many layers of indirection)

<dsmith>EXCEPT FOR foo many ..

<daviid>yep, and with that approach, it becomes a user problem, if they do not like the default that is ... which is alweays good

<daviid> ... if ... that is! is very uk :)

<daviid>*which is always good - to give users options to ... that is :)

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<iltutmus>did i leave the channel? i'm testing the znc's detaching feature, according to its wiki, you shouldn't see me lefting

<dsmith>iltutmus: I couldn't say, I've got join and other messages turned off. The channel logger doesn't log them either.

<iltutmus>hmm

<RhodiumToad>iltutmus: I don't see any recent connect/disconnect messages from you

<iltutmus>well then, it works :)

*RhodiumToad has his client configured to filter out joins/parts unless the user has recently spoken

<RhodiumToad>and I can toggle that on and off on the fly to see what was filtered

<iltutmus>i tested it again after wrote my first message

<iltutmus>oh

<iltutmus>good

<dsmith>RhodiumToad: What irc client?

<RhodiumToad>weechat

<dsmith>Ah

<RhodiumToad>I adjusted the threshold for "recently" to be several hours, too

<dsmith>I'm using ERC with GNU Emacs 26.1 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.5, multi-tty) of 2019-09-22.

*mwette installed guile-3.0.3 on ubuntu 18.04. Build went fine, but installed guile would not execute until I ran "ldconfig".

<dsmith>yep. Needed to do that for the bot's machine too.

<dsmith-work>Morning Greetings, Guilers

<nikita`>dustyweb: do you still maintain guile-gcrypt? the readme said to open bugs via notabug, but there's also a 1 year old issue. while I see no rush in tickets, I'd like to point out https://notabug.org/cwebber/guile-gcrypt/issues/4 which is only from earlier today and possibly get feedback at some point :)

<dustyweb>hi nikita`

<dustyweb>oh

<dustyweb>nikita`: I am very bad at keeping up with bug reports. One could call it a bug of mine :)

<dustyweb>nikita`: civodul and I are theoretically co-maintainers, but I think civodul has done more maintenance than I

<dustyweb>nikita`: we've mostly been using guile-users mailing list for feedback/discussion... I'll take a look at this issue though

<nikita`>ok :)

<dustyweb>nikita`: I might be the wrong person to help with it though

<dustyweb>hm

<nikita`>no rush, and I'm happy for any advice where to look

<dustyweb>define-enumerate-type...

<civodul>nikita`: is https://notabug.org/cwebber/guile-gcrypt/issues/4 still valid with the latest release?

<civodul>oh wait, that's a brand new issue

<nikita`>yes, this was while updating to the new release

<civodul>weird, the guile2.2-gcrypt package in Guix didn't have that problem

<civodul>nikita`: which 2.2 version is it?

<civodul>are there patches applied?

<nikita`>guile22-2.2.7nb2 , no patches applied for guile-gcrypt itself. guile22 has one patch for guild to adhere correct behavior for triplets. there's another patch applied to "Use correct mmap permissions for later PROT_WRITE mprotect."

<civodul>ok

<nikita`> http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/pkgsrc/lang/guile22/patches/

<nikita`>I'll reply in a bit, I'm still working but now taking a break to eat

<dsmith>RhodiumToad: Do you have links to the arm abi docs you were referring to earlier?

<nikita`>knowing what this hint at roughly would be helpful already, if it's system or distribution specific it's on us/me to fix it.

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<RhodiumToad>dsmith: for the ABI

<RhodiumToad>?

<RhodiumToad>dsmith: this one: https://static.docs.arm.com/ihi0042/i/aapcs32.pdf

<RhodiumToad>dsmith: specifically chapter 6, under "Stage B - Pre-padding and extension of arguments"

<RhodiumToad>"If the argument is an integral Fundamental Data Type that is smaller than a word, then it is zero- or sign-extended to a full word and its size is set to 4 bytes."

*RhodiumToad adds that to the issue for future reference

<civodul>nikita`: would it be possible for you to rm -rf /usr/pkg/guile/2.2/lib/guile/2.2/site-ccache/gcrypt/ beforehand?

<civodul>i'm thinking it might be interfering

<nikita`>oh.

<nikita`>yeah

<nikita`>in sandboxed builds that's a no-issue, i wanted to test this

<nikita`>I do updates mostyl outside of a sandbox. tis helps a lot, I can start looking into PATH or removing

<nikita`>super inconvenient and I want an alternative where I sandbox every build by default and apply more reproducibility, but progress is different.

<nikita`>thanks! I'll get back to you once I have results

<civodul>great, thanks!

<nikita`>probably later this week or so, I'm preoccupied with finding a new job, new flat, and GSoC

<civodul>sure, no rush

<dsmith-work>Hey hey

<civodul>hey dsmith-work!

<dsmith-work>civodul: Back in the office.

<dsmith-work>civodul: the bot updated:

<dsmith-work>sneek: version

<sneek>Sneeky bot running on Guile version 3.0.3 using bobot++ release.2.3.1-6-a463-dirty

<civodul>yay!

<civodul>well done