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<OrangeShark>hello everyone
***fibratio` is now known as fibration
<ArneBab>sneek: later tell catonano: autotools is pretty nice, but it is hard to find clear documentation because lots of half-truths are floating around the net and it misses clear guides "how to do X nicely with autotools".
<ArneBab>sneek: botsnack
<amz3>sneek: botsnack
<amz3>ArneBab: how are you doing? Is there new job neat?
<amz3>ArneBab: how are you doing? Is yout new job neat?
<amz3>ArneBab: how are you doing? Is your new job neat?
<amz3>ACTION tired
<cmaloney>Bean Tune Joy Row?
<ArneBab>amz3: yes, the new job is pretty cool -- it’s java, and an old codebase, but challenging and fun nontheless.
<ArneBab>amz3: I spent the past week battering SSL into some not-yet-secured connections, and that felt great, because it is the right thing to do. And I’m working on a presentation of Emacs for time management, along with a prepared environment people can simply run.
<ArneBab>amz3: this was my first larger task:
<ArneBab>amz3: and our team leader knows his stuff: I feel like the right technical decisions are taken. He somehow manage to combine experience with willingness to experiment for getting things really right.
<ArneBab>amz3: and I could write that blog entry on work time
<amz3>very neat indeed
<amz3>I like my new job too
<amz3>I am not confident the write about it yet
<amz3>on a related, not I stopped working on neon database, for the time being the time to catch up with work related stuff
<amz3>it seems very odd to support full RDF spec for getting things done
<amz3>and some people told me they are framework to test performances of non RDF pure implementations
<amz3>so I did not fill in the competition of HOBBIT contest
<ArneBab>that happens — don’t fret about it, a new job fills part of the mind, and that’s ok.
<amz3>I am diving into Ansible nowdays as part of work
<amz3>I am curious about thing they call devops
<ArneBab>ah, wow
<daviid>ArneBab: 'Emacs for time management', you mean timekeeping?
<amz3>right now, after reading the whole documentation, I have the feeling they created a new language that embeds a few procedures to to do remote calls on a host
<ArneBab>daviid: partly that, but also planning, todos, tracking my weekly work time, and naturally taking notes in the clocked entries :-)
<amz3>ArneBab: org-mode?
<ArneBab>amz3: sounds like ansibles language have been created more elegantly (*cough* guile *cough* :-) ), but I’m pretty sure they had their reasons (things are rarely easy)
<ArneBab>amz3: yepp, org-mode and org-agenda with clocktable and org-capture, combined with org-jira (and since today excorporate), all polished and integrated that things just work
<daviid>ArneBab: asking because, as you know, I wrote gnu foliot ...
<amz3>ArneBab: it sounds like they wanted some kind of non programmers to code or somethig to me maybe it's wrong thinking
<daviid>ArneBab: I personally think that apps that do timekeeping (precisely like foliot) should not also offer todo's ... then I kept foliot ultra tiny: it just does that (timekeeping). I don't beleive in time tracking
<ArneBab>daviid: I know, but since it wasn’t in Guix for a few months, I decided to go for org-mode, and it’s working pretty well now.
<daviid>I think it still isn't in guix, or is it now?
<amz3>I use org-mode too,
<ArneBab>I don’t think it is in Guix
<amz3>but it might be a good idea to test gnu foliot, since i use gnome
<daviid>me too, all the time, but not for time keeping it just does fir for the job, afaic
<ArneBab>daviid: I actually don’t need anything complicated, it just has to be as low-overhead as possible
<amz3>there is no package yet for guix :(
<ArneBab>low overhead not in CPU but in "Arne has to remember to do X"
<amz3>erf I think I started one... but don't know where it is
<daviid>ArneBab: sure, exactly the spirit of foliot: a non s/w eng. user could use it without any lesson, in 5 min ...
<amz3>that said, my use is very simple
<ArneBab>daviid: that sounds good — it has but one drawback: it is not already in Emacs, and I am in Emacs in the morning when I check what I am working on
<ArneBab>daviid: my workflow in the morning: click F12 to see org-agenda on the right and the emacs kanban table on the left. Choose a task and hit shift-F12.
<daviid>non it's not, it's a tiny gtk2/sqlite2 app
<ArneBab>when I switch to another task, I hit 8G–.
<ArneBab>(not 8G-)
<ArneBab>when I leave for lunch, I hit Alt-Shift-F12 anywhere to stop the clock
<daviid>yep, but where do you write how much time you spent on what projects ...?
<ArneBab>and when I mis-clock anything, I just edit the text file :-)
<ArneBab>that’s what org-mode does, since the tasks are organized in projects
<ArneBab>the clocktable aggregates everything automatically, shown below the agenda
<ArneBab>(that’s the part about shift-F12 when switching the task: It tells org-mode to clock on that other task)
<daviid>ah i see. i don't work like that, because if my brain stop being fully concentrate on the task, I don't charge my customer, so generally, out of 4h, I will only charge 2 or so ...
<ArneBab>and Alt-F12 creates a new task via org-capture
<daviid>i see, just don't like any clock based timekeeping approach
<OrangeShark>ArneBab: there is an emacs kanban board?
<ArneBab>daviid: I work a standard 40h week in regular employment
<ArneBab>OrangeShark: yes, but fake modesty forbids me to say who wrote it :-)
<daviid>sure, but you probably only concentrate half of the time ...
<ArneBab>I might, yes, but since this is true for everyone and we get paid a fixed monthly pay, that’s not a problem
<daviid>i understand
<ArneBab>I only clock out if I happen to space out on something for more than 5 minutes (like writing comments on a website)
<ArneBab>daviid: essentially that’s just a matter of scaling the pay for the work time.
<ArneBab>daviid: if you clock half as much time as me, you have to take twice as high rates to earn the same on a healthy work week
<OrangeShark>ArneBab: ah I see :P
<ArneBab>OrangeShark: fake modesty be damned :-)
<OrangeShark>I found it, was thinking that name seemed familiar ;P
<ArneBab>I’ve been using that every day for the past 6 years
<daviid>ArneBab: yes, but I like to know eactly what I did, as in being concentrate ... and as a freelance I have to charge per hour (and te'ns of the hour...) and i would still use foliot if i was emplyed by ...
<ArneBab>the only time I need really *exact exact* is my weekly time
<ArneBab>for everything else ±15 minutes don’t hurt
<ArneBab>I have a plasma-timekeeper open so I can check from time to time whether I got a new time sink:
<ArneBab>the important part in that is that I don’t actually clock in or out: It simply tracks which program is in focus
<daviid>like i can tell you to develop and maintain gnu foliot, till today, it took me so far 612.7 hours :), and for guile-cv 428.9 hours :):)
<ArneBab>so I can click it from now and then and see the dominant time sink
<ArneBab>I can only tell you that I still have around one hour of the 8 hours per month we get for stuff no customer pays for
<ArneBab>(part of that is creating the presentation on Emacs)
<ArneBab>but the past two weeks were hard because I got into 8h undertime due to having to be home to take care of craftsmen, and getting back on track was exhausting.
<ArneBab>actually took me three weeks to get back into slight overtime
<ArneBab>daviid: if I were to track my Freenet-maintenance-time, that would hurt a lot
<ArneBab>what I’d really need is something which can track where I spend my time without me declaring anything (guessing it automatically by activity), but the closest I am to that is Emacs org-mode
<daviid>:) but still worth keeping imo, I timekeep (not track) absolutely everything I do
<amz3>I've been arguing about timekeeping at the workplace but did not use for myself for a long time
<daviid>using foliot
<amz3>I will start doing pomodoro
<amz3>ah yes
<ArneBab>amz3: does that work?
<amz3>I could do that in foliot ? daviid ?
<daviid>what is pomodoro?
<ArneBab>daviid: do you also graph from foliot, i.e. finding out where your timesinks are?
<ArneBab>daviid: AFAIK working only 15min on a task and then switching
<amz3>ArneBab: to keep track of what I did during a day
<amz3>ArneBab: do you do that?
<ArneBab>not pomodoro
<amz3>ArneBab: I always forget how I did think
<ArneBab>I keep track of what I did in org-mode, and throw in lots of notes
<amz3>oh ok
<ArneBab>but I miss ways to chart that
<amz3>that's a good idea
<ArneBab>I’m pretty sure they exist, but not working out of the box
<amz3>the difficult thing, is that you need to keep track of wording or use tags
<amz3>like keywords over time thing?
<ArneBab>sacha chua did a lot of things on quantisized life:
<amz3>oh tx for the url
<ArneBab>quantified life
<amz3>yes, I try to do that
<amz3>for instance, it's a small step I guess, but I always use the same pockt for the same things
<amz3>like my mobile phone is always on the left side
<daviid>ArneBab: no, but you can filter (on the main tine window) on any criteria (except the duration) and you may use 'tags'
<amz3>it's a binary quantified life on or off =)
<daviid>that way I can tell my prof. exatcly how much time I spent with a phd student, for example
<daviid>in 8y, I spent 311.2 with karen (one of our phd student, she's doing postdoc know)
<daviid>311,2 hours
<daviid>all in foliot
<daviid>anyway, have to work now ... still here but will concentrate a bit :)
<ArneBab>wow, you track back for 8 years … I more or less ignore any timing data which was more than 3 weeks ago (because I’ll have put an aggregate number into some other system, either my overall time budget or the issue tracker)
<ArneBab>happy hacking!
<daviid>I keep I don't track :), and it i just in the database, everything I work on (I don't keep anything wrt private life) is in the db, tagged, so i can filter and use it t invoice, or justify some argument ... all this is very light in fact, it may sounds 'heavy', but i jst make entries in fliot, it takes a few min per day, and that's it ...
<Labu>Hello all, does someone know why 8sync is not listed on the guile project's librairies page ? what is the project status ?
<daviid>Labu: prob because the author did not send a patch for guile's pages
<daviid>it reminds me i should do that for foliot and guile-cv
<Labu>Ok daviid is it author which must patch the guile's page ?
<daviid>Labu: yes, guile's web pages are 'our' pages and we are all responsible to improve them ...
<Labu>what are foliot and guile-cv ?
<Labu>ok guile-cv is for image processing I found it
<daviid>Labu: duckduckkgo 'gnu foliot' and 'gnu guile-cv'
<daviid>ah ok
<daviid>i have a problem to copy/paste from epiphany to emacs, anyone has that ptoblem to? I'm on debian buster
<daviid>if i copy a url and paste it here, the hD starts to spin, it totally locks my laptop for a few minutes, as if it was sending the entire HD content to the nsa or so :),
<Labu>weird daviid I have emacs but not epiphany
<daviid>that was OT, sorry
<daviid>ACTION reading wingo's email on guile-3 progress...
<daviid>always extremelly inspiring...
<Labu>I have this expression I don't understand: (let lp ((i 0)) ...
<Labu>what is mean ?
<Labu>I know (let (var ini) ...)
<Labu>but I don't understand what lp mean in my example
<daviid>Labu: in the manual, look for 'named loop'
<daviid>or named let
<Labu>thx daviid
<ArneBab>Labu: that’s the most elegant structure for recursion that I know of to date
<Labu>I didn't know this ArneBab
<rain1>its very useful!
<Labu>yes it allows to declare a recursive function and launch it with one atatement as I understand
<jralls>wingo: I've got a problem with guile-2.0.14 built on Mingw-w64. The problem is that scm_to_utf8_string is returning UTF16--except when I call it from the gdb command line. shows the transcript.
<jralls>wingo: I found the reason on disassembly. The generated code is actually calling scm_to_locale_string. Any idea how that might be happening?
<jralls>wingo: Sorry, Latin1, not UTF16.
<spk121>jrails: did you call (setlocale LC_ALL "") at the top of the program?
<jralls>wingo: As one would expect from scm_to_locale_string, as linas points out in
<jralls>spk121: We do indeed.
<jralls>But as I said, the dissassembly shows the reason, it's calling the wrong function. Setlocale can't affect that.
<spk121>sorry, don't know
<mwette>jralls: Did you try to use (compile ...) to bytecode etc to see where the conversion is occurring?
<jralls>mwette: I don't understand the question. This is all C...
<mwette> jralls: sorry, didn't look at the code; I assumed scheme when you said "generated code"
<jralls>Curiously simply changing the call from scm_to_utf8_string(scm_string) to scm_to_utf8_stringn(scm_string, NULL) prevents the compile error.
<amz3>I was looking for this piece of code, I hope it's useful to someone else. It's command line interface helper
<amz3>I am not working on xote but neon (fwiw)