IRC channel logs

<mwette>you guys using erc in emacs? How do I address a message to someone? Just type in or is there a key-command?

<mekeor>mwette: please consult #emacs or #erc. you can join those channels by typing "/join #emacs" or "/join #erc"

<paroneayea>amz3: I don't know anything about terminite, but it's very similar to erlang in that they both use the actor model and message passing heavily

<wingo>moin

<manumanumanu>moin!

<manumanumanu>anyone knows why this: https://pastebin.com/GP0yW8jU doesn't match the literal in-list?

<civodul>hello!

<manumanumanu>I'm trying to be friendly, but it is acting up and also matches in-vector

<manumanumanu>and actually, everything I put there

<civodul>manumanumanu: pastebin.com isn't accessible from Tor, could you use, say, paste.lisp.org?

<manumanumanu>civodul: http://paste.lisp.org/display/349515

<manumanumanu>I'm not great with macros...

<civodul>(for/list ((x (in-list y))) a b c) should work

<civodul>does it work?

<civodul>but see the bits about syntax literal matching in NEWS if you're using Guile 2.2

<manumanumanu>that works, but it also matches (for/list ((x (in-vector (vector 1 2 3))) (display x))

<manumanumanu>will do

<civodul>hmm

<manumanumanu>in guile 2.2

<civodul>only 'in-list' matches for me in a fresh REPL

<civodul>so you'd have to check whether there's a 'in-list' binding in scope at the macro definition point or macro use point

<manumanumanu>i have an (in-list) procedure that is visible

<manumanumanu>shit

<manumanumanu>I am always bitten by that stuff

<manumanumanu>civodul: thanks.

<civodul>yw

<wingo>i wonder if there are useful warnings we can make there -- like if you override a syntactic keyword...

<wingo>like you rarely want to override "else" or even "_"

<wingo>dunno

<civodul>warnings for common mistakes like these might be helpful

<civodul>though it wouldn't help in this case

<wingo>because in-list is a procedure?

<civodul>because "in-list" is not "else" :-)

<civodul>so we'd need a warning that says "literal is shadowed by binding"

<wingo>i wasn't proposing to add hard-coded cases :)

<wingo>rather just observing that it's rare to shadow a macro

<wingo>hard-coded cases could be interesting though of course

<civodul>that said, if we add warnings, that's because it's not obvious to everyone that "literals" aren't matched literally anymore

<civodul>which to me sounds like bad feedback :-)

<lloda>I overrode $ in one of my libraries and that broke ice-9 match

<civodul>yeah i think a lot of Scheme code was written in the spirit that literals are literals

<civodul>it's tough!

<civodul>ACTION goes for lunch

<wingo>ACTION lunchies too

<manumanumanu>wingo: I do it all the time. If I had 333k dollars for every time I spent way to much time debugging a forgotten aux keyword export I would have a million dollars

<manumanumanu>but it is only the second time I override literals

<wingo>:)

<dsmith-work>Hey hey

<wingo>heya dsmith-work

<civodul>hmm #:count-calls? in (statprof) doesn't work for me

<manumanumanu>is there anything similar to racket's define-for-syntax ?

<manumanumanu>define within an evan-when perhaps?

<manumanumanu>ah, yes. it works

<paroneayea>is there a name for this function? I seem to use it everywhere

<paroneayea>(lambda (object pred)

<paroneayea> (and (pred object) object))

<paroneayea>in otherwords, return the object if it matches predicate, otherwise return #f

<paroneayea>seems common enough to have a name, the way and=> has a name

<civodul>ACTION doesn't know of a good name for this

<daviid>not so sure, just shooting :)

<paroneayea>I sometimes call it %maybe and use it like

<paroneayea>(let ((obj (or (%maybe (get-an-object) looks-right)

<paroneayea> backup-val)))

<paroneayea> foo...)

<daviid>hello civodul, paroneayea, wingo ... guilers! greet alls...

<paroneayea>hi daviid

<dsmith-work>ACTION waves

<daviid>have to run, bbl of course...

<ijp>paroneayea: the pattern (or (%maybe) foo) is what haskellers would call fromMaybe

<ijp>assuming #f is disjoint, maybe is fine

<paroneayea>thanks ijp :)

<paroneayea>huh

<paroneayea>srfi-35's support for compound conditions is pretty interesting.

<sporgj>hello fella schemers

<OrangeShark>hello

<sporgj>any interesting links, I'm bored lol

<OrangeShark>someone posted a link to an interesting C++ library they were writing experimental bindings for

<OrangeShark>sporgj: https://github.com/arximboldi/immer

<sporgj>was messing around with Guile over the weekend

<sporgj>best intro to scheme I've had

<OrangeShark>immutable data structures, they have a persistent vector implementation. There is a preprint of their research paper in the README

<sporgj>oh immutable structures

<sporgj>sounds like Javascript schpiel

<OrangeShark>I've been fascinated by them recently. Some functional languages have them built in

<ijp>"Postmodern"

<ijp>I wrote a library of scheme functional datastructures that no-one ever used

<ijp>well, except me

<OrangeShark>ijp: I was actually looking at your library the other week

<OrangeShark>was looking into getting it into guix

<avoine>ijp: I know amz use your fingertree.sls

<ijp>it's a bit of exaggeration. I know some people avoid it because of the record overhead

<paroneayea>ijp: wingo used it :)

<paroneayea>ijp: it's in guile-fibers

<paroneayea>one of the structures is

<paroneayea>it's used for the scheduler

<avoine>that true, deque

<paroneayea>I'd like to get pfds packaged in guix

<paroneayea>I haven't gotten to it yet

<paroneayea>some day!

<OrangeShark>paroneayea: I am almost done packaging it

<paroneayea>OrangeShark: oh nice :)

<avoine>oops no it's Priority Search Queues

<OrangeShark>hey amz3

<amz3>hey OrangeShark, sorry I completly forgot about the release and the org

<amz3>I guess I am distracted those days

<OrangeShark>amz3: I've been distracted too.

<ArneBab>ijp: that there at 19:23 shows the complications of estimating the impact of your work :)

<amz3>ijp: I did use the fingertrees for making a small editor

<amz3>text editor that is

<amz3>ArneBab: you are talking about which vidoe?

<ArneBab>amz3: I’m talking about [19:23:36] <ijp> I wrote a library of scheme functional datastructures that no-one ever used

<ArneBab>followed by 3 people giving examples of usage :)

<ArneBab>^ which is awesome

<amz3>ijp: here is the code defining the buffer data structure of the text editor https://github.com/amirouche/azul.scm/blob/master/buffer.scm

<amz3>:)

<amz3> https://github.com/ijp/pfds is very useful, also 43 star is not bad for an obscure dialect of lisp

<amz3>I have 54 repositories on github, 90% are projects of mine (others are forks) and the most popular is 50 star

<amz3>I used to have repository with 500 stars, but I deleted it!

<amz3>never. delete. anything.

<amz3>now it has 2 stars

<amz3>anyway... sorry!

<OrangeShark>amz3: what had 500 stars?

<catonano>ijp: be faithful ! Your immutable data structures are awesome !

<amz3>OrangeShark: a Python to Javascript "compiler" https://github.com/amirouche/pythonium

<catonano>I was always fascinated by the Clojure maps. You made a whole set of fuunctional data structures !

<ijp>thank you all for this ego boost

<OrangeShark>amz3: oh wow, didn't know there was a python to javascript compiler, but I guess what doesn't have that nowadays? (Someone is working on one for guile :D )

<amz3>ijp: well, pdfs not used to power space rockets yet, but it's useful

<amz3>paroneayea: ah yes thanks, 'termite' is a erlang-like library for gambit-c and chicken scheme

<manumanumanu>So, if anyone is interested, I have implemented something similar (but still not equivilent) of racket's for-loops in guile. One construct to loop through lists, strings, vectors and hashes (although that one is ugly): https://bitbucket.org/bjoli/guile-for-loops

<ijp>fwiw stis has implemented racket's for

<manumanumanu>ijp: not with #:when and #:breaks iirc.

<manumanumanu>his is probably better though :)

<stis_>manumanumanu: did you check out https://gitlab.com/tampe/guile-for

<stis_>that is a later version which contains much more

<manumanumanu>stis_: Cool! I did mine mostly to become better at macros

<stis_>contains #:when and #:break

<stis_>manumanumanu:

<stis_>if you make a system under just guile maxros without syntax-parse you have an edge up

<manumanumanu>stis_: I use only syntax-case, but the code is a mess

<manumanumanu>I am but a lowly classical musician coding in my free time

<stis_>manumanumanu: I don't think that is a negative skillset.

<manumanumanu>Next up, I am writing a more general emit-case built on fold, that allows me to properly support rackets for-system (that uses one accumulator for for/list, regardless of #:when-exprissions)

<stis_>coolio

<manumanumanu>Rackets for/list macros sometimes (always?) expand to something that isn't tail-recursive, which I find odd.

<manumanumanu>but that makes the whole sub-loop-with-the-same-accumulator much easier

<manumanumanu>stis_: I documented how it works: https://bitbucket.org/bjoli/guile-for-loops if you are feeling masochistic

<paroneayea>janneke: https://gitlab.com/janneke/mes/issues/1

<janneke>paroneayea: thanks...yeah, please add: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-patches/2017-06/msg00844.html

<paroneayea>janneke: oic :)

<paroneayea>janneke: what I usually do is I add these to the guix.scm until they arrive upstream in guix

<paroneayea>then I remove them

<janneke>paroneayea: right, that's trttd

<janneke>ACTION goes to add mescc-tools

<paroneayea>janneke: there's a stray semicolon at the end of the home-page line in that patch

<paroneayea>janneke: (hope you don't mind these comments, I think Mes is a great project! trying to see if I can get it up and running locally enough for me to understand it)

<janneke>paroneayea: ouch!?

<janneke>paroneayea: no, it must be some encoding/ml archive artifact it's not in the 0001*patch ... there's also one in the Release_ line

<paroneayea>oh :)

<paroneayea>must be!

<janneke>paroneayea: i like all comments!

<paroneayea>janneke: I was reading gc.scm

<janneke>worst is people who see stuff and complain to others (in their blog or so)...

<janneke>:-)

<paroneayea>janneke: there's a lot of (display) at the bottom, and manual calls to (gc-show), is that for debugging?

<janneke>paroneayea: yeah, gc.scm is not used anymore--prolly should delete that

<janneke>was for prototyping, scaffolding my gc in c: src/gc.c

<paroneayea>janneke: aha :)

<janneke>and getting to understand SICP's gc

<paroneayea>janneke: yes, I'm getting close to that chapter in sicp

<paroneayea>I'm finally in part 5, but it's going very slow for me

<janneke>paroneayea: i skipped from 2.3.something some years ago, straight into 5.3.1: GC

<amz3> https://bitbucket.org/bjoli/guile-for-loops/raw/54568a4a459175bc9b58db82337ef4f6bddfe135/for-loops.scm

<amz3>sorry!

<paroneayea>janneke: ha, cool :)

<manumanumanu>amz3: at least someone is looking at it :D

<amz3>manumanumanu: I am low on skills regarding macros

<manumanumanu>amz3: so am I. This is the result of code growing from bottom to top and top to bottom and not meeting in the middle :)

<manumanumanu>I am getting better however!

<manumanumanu>I just started grokking it 2 months ago

<sporgj>will "guile-lib" qualify as the standard library?

<sporgj>how do I go about timing a procedure?

<sporgj>oh saw it lol

<manumanumanu>amz3: if you want to grok how most macros work, open the cut srfi code and stare at it until you understand it

<manumanumanu>that was how I finally understood syntax-rules.

<amz3>manumanumanu: oh

<amz3>manumanumanu: nice trick

<amz3>it's like parsing a dictionary for the correct info

<amz3>Overview of the Scheme language

<amz3> http://trac.sacrideo.us/wg/raw-attachment/wiki/WikiStart/overview.pdf

<amz3>now I remember learning from this book ^

<amz3>«But riding the rails of time would be the ultimate functional superpower.»

<amz3>that's what git does ^

<civodul>:-)

<amz3>and persistent datastructure allows actually

<ijp>I think I've stubbed as much as I can without actually implementing the module system

<ijp>which seems to get me about 60% of the way through boot-9

<paroneayea>ijp: nice work :)

<ijp>so many functions only returning #f...

IRC channel logs

2017-06-26.log