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<spk121>stis: cool

<stis>unfourtunately code needs to be intrinsic and calling functions inside the program does not work

<stis>so all function references needs to be passed as function arguments

<stis>or inside a datastructuer passed in

<amz3>héllo

<janneke>hey amz3

<catonano_>amz3: hi !

<wingo>well! with 6 cores on a numa node i can now get 42K reqs/s.

<wingo>adding 3 cores from the other numa node nudges me up further, almost to 48K

<wingo>i had 3 cores for the wrk benchmark program

<wingo>AFAIU with 6 cores I should be getting around 300K reqs/s to beat haskell, which seems to be about the fastes thing out there.

<wingo>i am willing to take some penalties and shoot for 200K instead, something like that

<wingo>which I guess might be within reach with a native code backend. might need some gc work too. but adding cores seems to improve perf even in spite of NUMA (which BDW-GC doesn't really accomodate AFAIU) so at this point I think i will declare victory for now

<mthl>wingo: "i can now get 42K reqs/s" what are you speaking about?

<catonano>mthl: he' s talking about their fibers thing applied to network services. reqs/s stands for requests per second

<catonano>I suppose

<mthl>catonano: thanks for guessing it. :)

<catonano>they' re talking about... :-/

<wingo>ACTION pronouns are he/his fwiw

<wingo>they/their fine too of course

<catonano>wingo: thanks :-)

<lloda`>why are setters are called like (set-f! i ... o) for (set! (f i ...) o) instead of (f o i ...). It's easier to separate o from i the other way.

<lloda`>s/are//

<lloda`>I have the same problem with srfi-1 fold

<AlfredENeuman>it's a matter of taste. with singly linked lists, instead of doubly linked lists, you're always going to have an argument about which item deserves the beginning position in the list

<unknown_lamer>lloda`: https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/SRFI_002d17.html#SRFI_002d17

<paroneayea>ok ok

<paroneayea>ACTION has been reading goops.scm in off-hours

<paroneayea>I'm now halfway through reading through the printout

<paroneayea>I think I understand enough to debug the arity issues once I can find time

<paroneayea>and maybe even add a faster cache for generic methods with many implementations based on a hashmap

<daviid>paroneayea: great!

<paroneayea>:)

<paroneayea>janneke: I think I found the cause of your bug.

<paroneayea>got a doctor's appointment but then I'll reply to debbugs after.

<paroneayea>I think the new goops.scm isn't set up to intelligently dispatch on methods that glob with (args . whatev-args)

<daviid>paroneayea: if you embark on trying to become a goops maintainer, I strongly recommend you read (study) the clos spec, at least the subset that goops implement

<paroneayea>daviid: I've been reading Art of the Metaobject Protocol

<paroneayea>not CLOS itself yet

<paroneayea>I'm not *trying* to become the goops maintainer, though maybe I will end up doing some of that!

<daviid>that book is all about clos anyway so good!

<paroneayea>anyway bbiab

<daviid>ok

<amz3>sirgazil: did you read this http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-user/2017-02/msg00013.html

<sirgazil>amz3: no, let me see...

<amz3>sirgazil: do you have xp with such framework?

<amz3>I mean that use the same principles

<sirgazil>amz3: Nope. I've only used Django for web applications, and haven't played with websockets.

<sirgazil>amz3: but I would like to write scheme instead of JavaScript, and I'd like to to write style sheets in scheem too.

<sirgazil>amz3: Do nuweb apps depend on JavaScript? I mean, what happens if you request the single-page app from a user agent without JavaScript support?

<amz3>sirgazil that's should be adressed, I have a proof of concept working in python

<amz3>I know I can render the correct sxml on first request, but forms won't work with javascript

<amz3>wait they might be solution

<amz3>sirgazil: are you familiar with reactjs and html diff+patch libraries

<sirgazil>nope :)

<amz3>basically in that design, all relies on the fact that the backend render the whole sxml of the page with bound callback to DOM events

<amz3>the javascript runtime does diff+patch the browser DOM with the sxml

<amz3>and I think I have an idea for the side effect free "design"

<sirgazil>amz3: I'd have to see an example application to understand the concepts and the benefits :)

<amz3>sirgazil: todo app will do?

<sirgazil>I don't know, maybe, do you have a repo?

<amz3>sirgazil: no

<sirgazil>:D

<amz3>^^

<amz3>it doesn't exist yet

<amz3>I promised my self to do a release of culturia before working on nuweb

<amz3>sneek: what is culturia

<sneek>Last time I checked culturia is a search engine for GNU system

<dsmith-work>Happy Friday, Guilers!!

<OrangeShark>happy friday

<amz3>ro/

<janneke>hey paroneayea...are you talking about Jan Wedekind's bug?

<janneke> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=24454

<Walakea>how is guile designed to cooperate with C / C++ code?

<Walakea>should guile be managing smaller C(++) programs?

<amz3>I mostly write my code in scheme and inter-operate with C code using ffi bindings

<amz3>Walakea: I sometime directly call the program via pipe to get stdout

<amz3>I used to do that at least

<amz3>I hope not to resort to that kind of hacky stuff

<amz3>I replace that code with scheme code that is working better

<Walakea>amz3: C code?

<janneke>Walakea: Guile is nowadays most often used without C/C++ code

<amz3>basically yes, for instance I was using the html2text program via pipes, I replaced it with the following code: https://framagit.org/a-guile-mind/culturia.one/blob/master/src/html2text.scm

<janneke>although in its early years Guile was mostly positioned as an extension language

<Walakea>i still get that feeling from Guile official website

<amz3>well, big apps use Guile as an extension language

<amz3>there one app from david that use guile the "new" way

<Walakea>no offence, but does anyone other than GNU packages use Guile?

<amz3>dunno

<catonano_>amz3: how is this David's app called ?

<amz3>Walakea: I don't remember, it'd a kind of todo app written using guile clutter or guile gtk

<amz3>daviid: ^

<amz3>Walakea: kind of yes, people use it for private use

<amz3>Walakea: maybe more code is private than open

<Walakea>what advantages does Guile offer over other languages?

<amz3>Walakea: like no Global Interpreter Lock

<amz3>polyglot paradigms

<amz3>of programmation much more than python

<Walakea>i really like the absence of syntax

<Walakea>what do you mean by global interpreter lock?

<catonano_>amz3: ah I think I saw their site

<Walakea>also, how does guile compare to common lisp?

<amz3>Walakea: I don't think i qualify to explain what hte global intepreter lock is

<amz3>Walakea: I know only guile and python (and javascript)

<Walakea>amz3, i found a wikipedia page about that

<amz3>Walakea: about what?

<Walakea>GIL

<amz3>GIL?

<Walakea>global intepreter lock

<Walakea>it is the reason why Python doesnt run in parallel

<janneke>Walakea: scheme vs common lisp is something google has a lot of different opinions about ;-)

<Walakea>janneke: i already DDG'd alot of that, that is why i am asking here

<janneke>i don't know much about common lisp

<Walakea>because Guile seems to be extending Scheme and implementing its own object system, i wonder why you didnt use common lisp as the backbone

<janneke>ah...

<paroneayea>janneke: oops, yes :)

<paroneayea>janneke: I guess I got my jans mixed up :)

<janneke>paroneayea: :)

<janneke>Walakea: i'm not aware of any scheme on top of lisp implementations

<janneke>or lisp on top scheme, ftm...

<janneke>but it must have been tried and there possibly are such things

<dsmith-work>janneke: Ya. The very first Scheme was on top of some lisp.

<dsmith-work>maclisp ?

<janneke>dsmith-work: ah yes, that makes sense

<dsmith-work> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheme_(programming_language)#Origins

<janneke>nice, thanks

<amz3>I will screencast my hacking, that sound like a fun idea

<OrangeShark>amz3: live streaming it?

<amz3>OrangeShark: no I can't do that

<OrangeShark>oh, just record it

<catonano_>amz3: it's a great idea !!

<catonano_>I believe videos are important for guile/guix !

<daviid>amz3: it's called GNU Foliot

<daviid> https://www.gnu.org/software/foliot/

<daviid>ACTION is waiting for goops bugs being fixed in 2.2, so he can release 0.9.7, fingers crossed!

<catonano_>daviid: right, foliot. I have seen the site beore

<daviid>I should send a patch for our website (I was hoping someone would do that, it's a bit embarassing to auto promote an app, imo)

<catonano_>daviid: what do you mean "a patch for our website" ?

<daviid>catonano_: our site (guile's website) is written in scheme

<daviid>catonano_: so to update it, you patch :)

<catonano_>daviid: ah I see. It's not embarassing to autopromote. You're being too modest

<catonano_>you're helping the community to keep track of tings !

<catonano_>also, how comes that Foliot is not in guix ?

<daviid>catonano_: I have no idea

<catonano_>daviid: :-)

<catonano_>daviid: ok, I get it. When I will have installed GuixSD I'll take a look at Foliot and maybe send a patch to include it in Guix

<daviid>catonano_: thanks

<catonano_>daviid: you're welcome :-)

<catonano_>These days I'm mumbling that the web has become something that it was not suupposed to be

<catonano_>nodes is a mess

<catonano_>nodejs is a mess

<daviid>catonano_: git://git.sv.gnu.org/guile/guile-web.git

<catonano_>and buuilding simple solutions require people thhat proessionally dedicate themselves to the web

<catonano_>at thhe beginning it was publising or the rest of us

<catonano_>even Hoplon, that I admire very much, is so great because off how smartly comes around the web shortcomings

<catonano_>so maybe having some native GUI app is not that bad

<catonano_>daviid: When I said I would have sent a patch, I was refferring to having Foliot as a package in Guix. Bui I inderstand that you want it mentioned in the web site too

<catonano_>and I agree

<catonano_>cloning it right now

<daviid>catonano_: I understood, I just pasted guile-web.git so you can look at the code, not as a invitation for you to patch for gnu foliot :)

<catonano_>daviid: look now it's not the right time, but I promise you I will look into this

<daviid>catonano_: no problem. what is hoplon?

<daviid>catonano_: i found it, never mind

<catonano_>yes, sorry

<daviid>cantstanya: you may be interested by git://dthompson.us/haunt.git

<daviid>catonano_: actually this link is better: https://haunt.dthompson.us/

<catonano_>daviid: I know Haunt. Recently I updated the package for Guix :-)

<daviid>catonano_: ah ok, sorry

<catonano_>admittedly I haven't tested it yet, though

<catonano_>I was planning to but then life got in the way

<catonano_>daviid: no prob ;-)

IRC channel logs

2017-02-17.log