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2017-02-13.log

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<amz3>did anyone look at my rambling on the guile-user mailling lsiit?
<amz3>I was thinking about something else; I will post something else
<amz3>I did 4 posts alreay on the smallest month of the year, nobody will bit me this year :)
<amz3>ACTION runs
<amz3>even if there are mmonologues
<spauldo>just spent way longer than I'd like to admit trying to debug a function that had (+1 i) in it
<janneke>amz3: yeah, i looked
<janneke>it's not at all strange what you write
<civodul>Hello Guilers!
<lloda`>wingo: libguile/continuations.c:186, is that frame->stack_top ??
<wingo>hello :)
<wingo>ACTION pulls to check
<wingo>btw i ran some tests on my 2-socket E5-2620v3 system
<wingo>6 cores/socket, hyperthreading off.
<wingo>for the fibers web server it gets around 10K reqs/s for a hello-world app on one core
<wingo>for 6 cores it's 30-35K
<wingo>so still some scaling work to be done
<wingo>and also some single-core perf to work on too
<wingo>lloda`: heh i meant to remove an assigned-but-not-used variable but it seems i removed the decl but not the assignment :P
<wingo>lloda`: fixed
<civodul>wingo: i think i'll cut 2.0.14 today or tomorrow just so we get those fixes out (repro builds in particular)
<civodul>WDYT?
<lloda`>wingo: thx
<wingo>civodul: sgtm; afaiu we are still missing the forward port of that patch, right?
<civodul>wingo: yes, it's still on my to-do list
<wingo>ok :)
<civodul>merging stable-2.0 in master and adjusting things
<civodul>is there something particular to pay attention to when merging stable-2.0 in master BTW?
<wingo>i think at this point forward cherry-picks are the right thing; afair anyway
<wingo>maybe we can still merge, not sure
<civodul>ok
<civodul>well there aren't so many commits anyway
<civodul>i'll try merge and cherry-pick if it doesn't work
<wingo>good luck :)
<wingo>i think i've done cherry-picks most recently so there might be conflicts
<civodul>ok
<amz3`>o/
<lloda`>is NEWS the place to keep deprecation notices? I miss some.
<ArneBab_>amz3`: sounds great
<ArneBab_>(your writeup)
<ArneBab_>(I answered)
<wingo>lloda`: yes
<lloda`>wingo: I ask b/c e.g. uniform-array-read!/write were deprecated in 2.0 but there's no specific deprecation notice, just 'this interface has been deprecated'. I think a notice like 'x is gone, use y instead' is important to help people port.
<lloda`>now they are gone and there's no mention of them anywhere.
<wingo>yes i agree fwiw
<lloda`>I can add a post-facto notice in NEWS after '** All deprecated code removed', would that be ok?
<wingo>i think that notice is there
<lloda`>it doesn't mention those specific functions and their replacements
<lloda`>I'll put up a patch with what I have in mind
<wingo>ah sorry i didn't understand your proposal. sgtm
<wingo>sorry, read too fast :)
<lloda`>np :)
<ArneBab_>wingo: after paroneayea asked that on FOSDEM, is there a chance of getting wisp included in Guile?
<ArneBab_>and if yes, what would I have to do for that?
<wingo>ArneBab_: what would that look like? :)
<wingo>also why would you want that? in some ways it can be easier to maintain something outside of guile
<ArneBab_>wingo: it would mean that people could run wisp code just like they can run elisp-code and ecma-code
<wingo>is it -l wisp or something?
<wingo>and if there is a wisp feature you need to rely on, are you ok with waiting some time for a guile release?
<wingo>or telling your users to use guile from git?
<civodul>i'm not sure this is a good idea, though i remember paroneayea had almost convinced during their talk
<civodul>but paroneayea is a wizard
<ArneBab_>wisp is pretty stable these days. I only experimented with one change in the past year, and I think it would create more problems than it solves.
<ArneBab_>wingo: it already does --language=wisp
<ArneBab_>wingo: I’m ok with waiting for Guile releases.
<ArneBab_>all the stuff I’ve been doing is just exploring what can be done with the wisp-syntax defined in SRFI-119
<paroneayea>I think it would be nice to have wisp in guile proper
<paroneayea>wisp's primary feature is that it provides a nice, non-parenthetical syntax which can make some things easier to write (game scripts, etc) but *especially* it makes overcoming the fear of parenthesis easier I think
<paroneayea>that, and as far as languages bundled with Guile, which presumably we want more of
<paroneayea>it's an "easy fit"
<paroneayea>it's just lisp, with a different syntax :)
<ArneBab_>:)
<wingo>sgtm in principle then :)
<paroneayea>\\o/
<paroneayea>wingo: ArneBab_: maybe we should make a branch, wip-wisp, on savannah?
<wingo>sounds good :)
<ArneBab_>\\o/
<dsmith-work>{appropriate time} Greetings, Guilers
<paroneayea>ArneBab_: I guess you should request commit access then, if you don't have it?
<paroneayea>ArneBab_: I'd be interested in testing and doing some light review of the branch as it comes along, but of course I will not be the *best* reviewer
<paroneayea>because I don't know much about guile internals or compilers
<ArneBab_>I should ask for commit access, yes
<paroneayea>ArneBab_: personally I would recommend that even though the wisp repo has the "wisp is bootstrapped from lisp but then is written in lisp" thing, I would just write it in scheme for guile proper
<paroneayea>it'll keep it leaner
<ArneBab_>paroneayea: I’d just add the files parsed to scheme
<paroneayea>ArneBab_: sorry, I didn't quite catch what you meant by that?
<paroneayea>oh
<paroneayea>I see
<ArneBab_>./wisp.scm file.w > file.scm
<ArneBab_>
<paroneayea>gotcha :)
<paroneayea>ArneBab_: btw what do you think of the extension .wsp or .wisp?
<paroneayea>clearer than .w imo
<paroneayea>ha, .wsp means Windows Sharepoint in some places tho :)
<ArneBab_>I think .wsp already has a meaning
<ArneBab_>ah, yes
<ArneBab_>.wisp does not have that yet, it seems
<ArneBab_>personally I like .w (for the simplicity), but I’m not attached enough to it that I’d argument about that.
<paroneayea>:)
<paroneayea>.w is nice
<paroneayea>I thought .wsp would be nicer
<paroneayea>but apparently not!
<paroneayea>C-u M-x debbugs-gnu ... "Show archived bugs?" y ; wait for eternity :)
<jmd>Is there a proceedure like mkstemp! but for directories?
<paroneayea>jmd: iirc no... I had to write something like that at some point but I forget where it was...
<paroneayea>ArneBab_: rekado: you dealt with delay things on your videos you reviewed right? How did you determine what number to put in for the delay in seconds
<paroneayea>?
<paroneayea>ah, vlc!
<paroneayea>I think I got the delay right, but I'm not sure about the sign I gave to it... I set it to negative... :)
<didi>How do I find a file relative to a source file?
<paroneayea>picked up Art of the Metaobject Protocol. Maybe by reading it I can have a better understanding to help contribute to GOOPS.
<unknown_lamer>paroneayea: AMOP is good stuff!
<unknown_lamer>unless something has changed in the last ten years (am I old now?) the GOOPS MOP is pretty limited and could use some major sprucing up
<paroneayea>it does seem like it could use sprucing up
<paroneayea>the thing that worries me most is generic method dispatch being O(n) the number of implementers
<unknown_lamer>IIRC, there is a dispatch cache. but i might be thinking of sbcl. if there isn't an inline dispatch cache should be doable
<paroneayea>there's a dispatch cache but it appears to be using an alist?
<paroneayea>I could be wrong
<paroneayea>unknown_lamer: I've asked for confirmation but nobody has confirmed / denied on that one ;)
<paroneayea>unknown_lamer: anyway there are other places where it feels like things could maybe be nicer, and are nicer for CLOS users.
<unknown_lamer>goops does beat clos in that generics don't have to have a fixed arglist
<unknown_lamer>but missing things like method combinations which can be useful
<paroneayea>hm, is that a feature? :)
<paroneayea>anyway yeah
<unknown_lamer>ACTION is not really a lisp hacker any more and feels sad
<unknown_lamer>curse you 9-6 as a sysadmin killing my will to hack / no longer having a job writing common lisp
<paroneayea>heh
<paroneayea>sucks!
<unknown_lamer>such is life under late anti-lisp capitalism ;)
<amz3>a tutorial on goops would be awesome, I am wondering how to model an orm in guile
<paroneayea>augh this live repl select bug is driving me nuts
<paroneayea>I've patched out the offending commit in most of my guix.scm's for right now
<paroneayea>from guile-next
<paroneayea>but that's such a hacky "solution"
<gammarus>hi, need help need to convert a time from an api in this format "2011-03-24T20:30:47Z" into something like 13 Mar 2011.
<amz3>gammarus: guile doesn't support dates before 3000
<amz3>gammarus: try this page of the manual https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/SRFI_002d19-String-to-date.html#SRFI_002d19-String-to-date
<amz3>string->date how surprising
<amz3>in srfi 19
<amz3>OT: Barliman is awesome
<amz3>the software is probably based on minikanren work
<gammarus>I have been through the manual and found that. but have struggled to get it to work.
<amz3> https://github.com/webyrd/Barliman
<amz3>gammarus: will try
<gammarus>thx. I am not a particulary experienced programmer but am trying to learn guile and ncurses.
<amz3>gammarus: I can't get it work either
<amz3> http://dpaste.com/349GYMM
<amz3>cc wingo ^
<gammarus>yes those were the type of errors I was getting
<amz3>I can't help i don't understand
<amz3>the error myself
<gammarus>thx for trying
<amz3>gammarus: send a mail on guile-user mailling list if you don't get an anwer
<gammarus>will do
<paroneayea>daviid: tried debugging that weird error in guile-lib with guile2.2
<paroneayea>it's a weird heisenbug! The moment I put in print statements, the bug goes away.
<paroneayea>I'm afraid it's actually a bug in goops somewhere
***heroux_ is now known as heroux
<ArneBab_>paroneayea: I adjusted the delay about 5-10 times. It only started working when I *stopped* adjusting the start and stop time of the video accordingly.
<paroneayea>ArneBab_: heh :)
<catonano_>amz3`: Barliman is based on minikkkanren indeed