IRC channel logs
2017-02-11.log
back to list of logs
<amz3>how do you handle data validation? I am looking for something similar to wtforms or pylons colander <catonano>amz3: I was wondering if something similar to the new clojure thig could be implemented in Guile scheme <catonano>ah you were thinking about data inserted by humans <catonano>the clojure thing is that kind of incremental type checking <amz3>I am thinking about data inserted by human <amz3>I am writing my first graph traversal since months! <amz3>so i have a basic wiki, a basic forum <amz3>catonano_: did you see the query? <amz3>I added a traversi-sort that keeps history of the value so that you can backtrack <amz3>well... I am basically coding a bunch of feature around the search engine... <amz3>not sure how it makes sens <catonano_>amz3: I couldn't install GuixSD on my laptop, and I couldn't install guix with a binary installation either <amz3>catonano_: I was going to ask <catonano_>so now I'm not sure how to continuue my work on the nodes packages graph <amz3>did you post a message about the failed biiinary installation? <catonano_>amz3: will you update your culturia package for guix ? <catonano_>in particular, there's the last wiredtiger version in guix now <catonano_>amz3: so I have some time in order to sort out my installation woes ;-) <catonano_>amz3: we sould really move to the guix channel, to discuss guix related stuff ;-) <amz3>last time I tried to updaet to guix, I've hit issues <amz3>I did not have the energy to fix them <amz3>but I fixed some of them <amz3>I discovered that wiredtiger changed their API hence the issues I had <amz3>I should really install guixsd proper on my laptop and work exclusvely with it <amz3>but I am lazy especially since my current setup works <catonano_>I attempted an installation of GuixSD but I was forced to come back on Fedora AND the old setup is lost too :-/ <amz3>also wiredtiger (and culturia) are not autotools based which makes supporting both guix and non-guix a pain <catonano_>amz3: anyway I wanted to thank you for convincing me goiing to the Fosdem <catonano_>it was really nice meeting the people in person <amz3>catonano_: what presentation did you see? <catonano_>I saw all of them, I stayed in the guile room all thhe time <catonano_>I was a bit weared off, especially in the first hhours in the morning <catonano_>but I especially enoyed the dinnerr on sunday evening :-) <amz3>what presentation did you enjoy the most? <amz3>which one he did several? the asyncmud thing? <catonano_>first reason is that I am attracted to concurrency, wich I don'tknow so much about <catonano_>is that it was not just a talk. It was a performance ! <catonano_>also the discussion about the future of guix was frank and highly insightfful <amz3>what's the future of guix then? <amz3>I planned to use guile fibers for culturia but then settled on using what I already know <catonano_>thhe main ting I am interested in right now would be a script that automates the binary installation <amz3>I will let other sort out how to build a web app uising fibers <paroneayea>I'm giving it again here in chicago to the local gnu/linux usergroup <catonano_>paroneayea: you're accumulating experienced in giving it, like real showmen ;-) <amz3>I got an idea on how to build a web app using websockets and no javascript inspired from nevow framework <catonano_>amz3, paroneayea: I'd love to see some divulgative stuff about cps <paroneayea>catonano_: I don't know much about CPS! I only know about the actor model, and the ways in which they overlap :) <paroneayea>catonano_: but, there is this book that wingo referenced: <catonano_>paroneayea: I was just thinking out loud ;-) <paroneayea>catonano_: I haven't read it, but if wingo thinks it's good... <amz3>basically, you create a websocket link with the client and send a bunch of html to the browser which is rendered using snabbdom, DOM events are translated into messages over the ws link and execute a callback which must return some html <catonano_>it's gonna be very good, I'm sure. But divulgative ? Mm <amz3>basically dom events are translated to ws messages... the rest is boilerplate code <catonano_>amz3: it wold be interesting to see what Hoplon is doing <catonano_>I have the impressiion that they were influenced by the same Hop the Ludo mentioned in discussing gexps <amz3>this makes it possible to build widgets directly in scheme <amz3>like I said in the framework I am thinking about you do not need to call javascript, there is small runtime that is all <catonano_>anyway, for now I have to sorto ut the installation issue <amz3>well... some stuff still require javascript like inline validation <catonano_>amz3: I'm not sure I undertand, but Hoplon has a rntime too. A runtime tat runs inside the browser <catonano_>but you don't write avascript. You write cliure <catonano_>a compiler copmiles that to javascript, but taht's transparent <catonano_>tey have a thing that arranges computation in a dataflow style <catonano_>it seemed to me that the Hoplon cells framework is similar to what William Byrd presented <catonano_>I can't remember tha name now, anyway I was just mumblig out louud <amz3>My framework is a backend framework, Hoplon seemms like a frontend framework <amz3>in my framework, frontend state is stored in the backend, there is no state frontend side <amz3>and there is no javascriipit compilation required <catonano_>amz3: ahhh I see. You're right, Hoplon is a front end thing. <janneke>early this morning: janneke@debian:~/src/guix$ ./pre-inst-env guix package -i hello <paroneayea>I assume that's the Hop civodul was discussing but I dunno for sure :) <janneke>now at libunistring...no clue which round... :-( <amz3>what is “the diffuse web”? <catonano_>paroneayea: I heard him discuss Hop in the context of staging and gexps <catonano_>te same way some code is "staged" to be run by thhe daemon, in guix, some code is "staged" to be run in thhe browser in Hoplon <catonano_>yes as far as I understand, Hop is the origin <civodul>paroneayea: Hopjs is Hop with a JS syntax <civodul>initially Hop was Scheme for both server- and client-side (browser) <paroneayea>I read the scheme Hop paper but I didn't really get it :) <civodul>and then, Manuel thought that making everything JS would make it so popular <civodul>so now everything is JS, compiled to Scheme, and then compiled to JS again for the browser side :-) <civodul>and guess what, Hopjs is not any more popular than Hop <civodul>and an order of magnitude less popular than Racket, which is Scheme <paroneayea>ACTION hopes webassembly will kill everyone's obsession with javascript as "but you gotta target javascript" <civodul>that said, Hop does the right thing in many ways for web stuff! <civodul>wingo, mark_weaver: i was considering pushing 2.0.14 just so we can get the reproducible-build fix out <civodul>there's been only a handful of commits since 2.0.13 <janneke>grrr, there are more types of laptop WIFI cards than I knew <paroneayea>janneke: I submitted a guile2.2-gdbm-ffi package to guix, but I borked it <paroneayea>so I was trying to find out what was wrong, and it turns out, multiple things <paroneayea>it was having trouble reading from the .go file correctly <amz3>seems like guile-websocket assumes request/response kind of protocol whereas it's actually a multiplex protocol. The server can send msg to client anytime and receive messages anytime <paroneayea>we were never using the guild binary from the input and instead were using an internal guile utility to compile the package. Oops! <paroneayea>amz3: yes, the server in there was a demo example <paroneayea>8sync's snarfed guile-websocket code wraps in an actor <paroneayea>but anyway, I found out by running readelf on it and it wasn't an elf file, despite in theory compiled for guile 2.2 <paroneayea>and then after I fixed it, I looked at the readelf output <janneke>i've been using objdump/readelf/gdb a lot for mes; some emacs hexl mode <janneke>weird...the more i get into guile/guix, the less scheme i write <didi>Is there some kind of abstract type for sequences? i.e. I can map over lists, strings, bytevectors using the same procedure? <didi>paroneayea: Oh well. Thank you. <paroneayea>didi: you could write such a thing with goops, or perhaps wrap in a stream <paroneayea>didi: np! sorry, wish there was a better answer. <civodul>janneke: don't miss Guile's ELF module! <civodul>OrangeShark, amz3: i just noticed that guile-git is GPLv3+, but ISTR libgit2 is GPLv2-only <OrangeShark>all the official language bindings by libgit2 use MIT license <civodul>OrangeShark: oh ok, so i guess that's fine <daviid>civodul: so, i can't find the hop (scheme) website anymore? the wiki hop scheme link goes to the hop.js ... how sad! <daviid>did read the log and wanted to look at it again ... just curious <daviid>wingo: heya! did you have a chance to look at the goops related bugs filed by paroneayea wrt/since 2.1.x? <daviid>amz3: that github says almost nothing, and at the end points to http://hop.inria.fr which lands to the js website:instead, it should still land to the scheme intro and based API, then offer a JS link for the 'JS folks'... civodul you should talk to Manual, this is terrible, imo <linas>so .. is there any kind of jupyter for guile (or vice-versa, guile shims for jupyter)? <linas>from what I can tell, a "native jupyter kernel" for quile would require guile json and guile zero-mq modules, at the bare minimum. <amz3>would a jupyter kernel allow to easily draw diagrams? <linas>I need to create a "data dashboard" so that I can understand what the heck is going on with my... err, data-research system <linas>Up till now, I've been keeping diaries, writtten in plain ascii, or maybe lyx, and hand-curating graphics plotted with gnuplot <didi>linas: You might like Emacs' org-mode. <linas>but this is impractical, doesn't scale, if I need to monitor 100 subsystems. <didi>Specifically, org's babel. <linas>well - the org-mode page describes the exact opposite of what I need to do <linas>Currently, I have 113 nearly-identical-but-different machine-learning tasks that are spweing vast quantities of data <linas>so I currently use makefiles, bash scripts, and gnuplot graphics (generated by makefiles) to visual tht firehose <linas>any charting program will do, but its the automation of the makefiles and bash scripts that is failing to integrate with my hand-written diary & research notes. <amz3>I think org mode does allow to mix code with writing and execute the code in a similar fashion to what jupyter does but in emacs <linas>In the "business intelligence" world, they call these things "dashboards" <amz3>yes I see what it is, but it seems to me those things are highly business specific <linas>the problem with emacs, is I need to share with other users, and they need to be able to use a polan web-browser to see it <linas>(they'll be windows/macos people) <amz3>I org-mode can generate pdf but again I am not an expert <linas>well -not export, but "live data", like "what is it doing right now" <amz3>linas: hire a frontend dev then :p <linas>exporting a gigabyte of data for 113 different feeds would result in a 113 gigabyte pdf file which is absurd <daviid>linas: for 'realtime' dashboard, I recommend guile-clutter and guile-async2 (for the integration with the glib main loop). if it is just reading soe and writing a pdf or what ever, then using guile-charting might be your friend here <linas>look from what I can tell, jupyter does what I need <daviid>linas there is a graphviz guile package as well, somewhere, I don't have the link <linas>hmm. maybe clutter might work. <amz3>that ^ said, jupyter should work the only problem I had with it is that I could not use my db library for some reason... <linas>The general idea would be kind-of-like http://www.pentaho.com/ except that one assumes that you've already written servers to serve up your data <amz3>that's exactly like what I posted above called superset from airbnb <amz3>but with bettter visuals <linas>I don't have time to create servers and http/json API's, which is what makes jupyter so appealing <linas>OK, yes, the airbnb/superset looks like a nice front-end ... so the question is: how hard is it to create the backend? <linas>my currently-totally-naive impression is that jupyters power is in having an OK front-end, and a super-easy way of scripting ad-hoc backends. <linas>I might be wrong, but that's my impression <amz3>at least it seems like you can get rich representation working <amz3>but I don't think it comes for free with only the jupyter kernel done <linas>well, so I was asking about the "iguile kernel", I guess <johannes>yes, I've been wondering about that as well <linas>ah, there are also ruby, scala, node.js and go kernels <johannes>There is a Python based scheme called Calysto that has a kernel <johannes>the bare mininum interaction with the repl should be easy <civodul>hopjs is the same thing as hop with with an additional js->scheme compiler <daviid>civodul: ok. but for schermers, where is teh API? and imo, too bad the main site does not first describe it is a scheme 'toolbox', with an optional js API for the unfortunates :). my 2c <civodul>ditching Scheme was on purpose, but i agree it's unfortunate <weinholt>i'm looking at FreeDOS running in Guile, slowly <ArneBab_>I just finished reviewing the natural script writing video from FOSDEM — yay!