IRC channel logs

<NeverDie>Is Guile scheme from the Guile in street fighter?

<mark_weaver>NeverDie: no, there is no relation

<daviid>for info, Guile-Clutter 1.12.2.1 released

<daviid>have to go, bb tomorow

<leedleLoo>It seems like the `map` executes on a single cpu core. Can I utilize multiple cores?

<holomorph>par-map

<holomorph>i think

<leedleLoo>holomorph, your're correct. par-map's working like a charm

<leedleLoo>Is there any work being done to utilize the GPU (like openCL)? I know drivers are usually an issue.

<leedleLoo>I mean par-map executing on the GPU.

<mark_weaver>leedleLoo: no, guile has no facilities for using GPUs

<mark_weaver>(besides things like guile-opengl)

<leedleLoo>I'm interested in helping out that. I'll start cloning the guile repos and what not. Do you know if something like this has been attempted before?

<leedleLoo>Or maybe any major roadblocks anyone can see?

<mark_weaver>I think it's best to keep it as a separate library, at least for now.

<mark_weaver>like guile-opengl

<leedleLoo>Yes. I realize now what I've said :)

<mark_weaver>I guess we probably can't use "OpenCL" in the name, since Apple holds trademark rights to that name.

<mark_weaver>and Apple is quite hostile to us

<mark_weaver>my knowledge of OpenCL is weak, but from what I know, it's not obvious to me how best to integrate this with a high-level language like Guile.

<mark_weaver>it might be a good idea to post your preliminary design ideas to guile-devel@gnu.org and request feedback

<leedleLoo>I have some experience with OpenCL. From what I remember, finding libre drivers wasn't so easy

<leedleLoo>I'll sign myself up with the mailing list then, thanks for the help

<mark_weaver>do libre drivers exist for any GPU?

<leedleLoo>Nouveau may have something. I'm not entirely sure though

<mark_weaver>regarding the trademark issue: guile-opengl was formerly named guile-figl, before we determined that we could use the opengl trademark

<mark_weaver>according to <https://wiki.freedesktop.org/nouveau/FeatureMatrix/> Nouveau doesn't yet support OpenCL.

<mark_weaver>but it appears that work is being done on it, at least.

<leedleLoo>mark_weaver: I can't find too much more info besides that matrix you linked to. I'll have to spend some time looking through the nouveau projects then. Thanks again

<nalaginrut>afternoon guiler~

<amz3>héllo guilers :)

<amz3>build a dht is not simple matter, especially with mutable keys

<amz3>how I am supposed to make asymmetric signatures? anyone knows about this?

<amz3>ACTION slighly off topic

<lloda>any insight into 'Warning: Unwind-only `stack-overflow' exception; skipping pre-unwind handler.' when compiling master at 'BOOTSTRAP GUILEC ice-9/eval.go'? solutions?

<wingo>lloda: could it be that your C stack limit is low?

<wingo>or

<wingo>i bet it's that you are compiling -O0

<wingo>and so the eval.c stack frames are taking too much space

<lloda>i'm compiling -O3

<CustosLimen>hi

<CustosLimen>so I'm getting '(#f mutex not locked by current thread () #f)'

<CustosLimen>this is from calling async-enqueue: http://www.nongnu.org/guile-lib/doc/ref/container.async-queue/

<CustosLimen>using guile-2.0.11

<CustosLimen>and guile-lib-0.2.2

<CustosLimen>stack trace is: https://bpaste.net/show/62a666046962

<CustosLimen>I don't get how this is possible though

<CustosLimen>the only thing accessing that mutex as far as I can see is bascially using with-mutex

<CustosLimen>so unless with-mutex is broken this should not happen

<CustosLimen>unless ofcourse guile has issues with pthread on solaris 10

<CustosLimen>running 10u10

<amz3>meh can't compile guile-gnunet

<h0wl3vvd>hello

<h0wl3vvd>guile specify order of evaluate arguments ?

<taylan>h0wl3vvd: nope

<h0wl3vvd>kk

<davexunit>this person has been jumping around to all of the lisp related IRC channels that I belong to

<vanila>maybe they're compiling a table of information

<taylan>I think they're just the type of IRC user who joins to ask something and leaves again when it's answered. at least that's how they seemed to me on #emacs.

<taylan>a fairly straightforward way to use IRC, yet seemingly strange :P

<davexunit>it always seems like they were like "yup, this sucks, bye"

<taylan>hahaha, they seemed polite to me

<davexunit>they rubbed me the wrong way in #scheme awhile ago

<CustosLimen>hi

<CustosLimen>so I'm getting '(#f mutex not locked by current thread () #f)' - this is from calling async-enqueue: http://www.nongnu.org/guile-lib/doc/ref/container.async-queue/ - using guile-2.0.11 and guile-lib-0.2.2 stack trace is: https://bpaste.net/show/62a666046962

<CustosLimen>I don't get how this is possible though - the only thing accessing that mutex as far as I can see is bascially using with-mutex - so unless with-mutex is broken this should not happen - unless ofcourse guile has issues with pthread on solaris 10u10

<mark_weaver>CustosLimen: it might be a solaris-specific issue. if you can create a minimal self-contained example that demonstrates the problem, that would be helpful. then we could try to reproduce it on our systems and investigate.

<CustosLimen>mark_weaver, if I could reproduce it fixing it would be easy ;)

<CustosLimen>mark_weaver, but will try now

<mark_weaver>thanks

<CustosLimen>mark_weaver, was just checking if someone knows of solaris related thread issues off hand

<mark_weaver>CustosLimen: not off hand, but none of the guile developers use solaris afaik.

<CustosLimen>andm it looks like opencsw compiles without --with-threads

<mark_weaver>it would be helpful to send a bug report to bug-guile@gnu.org, preferably with minimal self-contained code to demonstrate the problem, but even without that it would be useful.

<CustosLimen>mark_weaver, yeah - still just fishing - once I have way to reproduce or tracked it down in another way will submit

<mark_weaver>in the process where the problem occurs, are you using pure scheme code, or does the process include your own C code? are you using the dynamic FFI?

<CustosLimen>mark_weaver, I dunno the code that well - but think its all scheme

<CustosLimen>from stack traces it seems like problem is coming from scheme code anyway

<lloda>wingo: it was indeed the stack, should have checked :-/ thx Limit was 8MB.

<wingo>lloda: 8MB should be fine, but was it -O0 ?

<lloda>no, it was -O3, then I tried -O2 and it didn't work either.

<wingo>weird

<lloda>the default is -O0?

<taylan>-O2 IIRC

<lloda>no idea really

<lloda>actually I had a question about the stack. I read about how the stack now grows automatically on the Scheme side, is it possible to use that from C instead of scm_gc_malloc() ?

<mark_weaver>lloda: iiuc, only the VM stack grows automatically, not the C stack.

<lloda>yes, I'm asking about the VM stack. The VM has to call into C sometimes, so it seems like it should be possible to manipulate the VM stack from the callee. Isn't it so?

<mark_weaver>lloda: iiuc: since the VM is the only thing that allocates on the VM stack, it's the only place that should need to expand that stack, no? I don't understand why you'd want to grow the VM stack from anywhere else.

<mark_weaver>my understanding is that callees to do manipulate the VM stack at all, although I confess I'm not 100% confident of that. wingo is the VM expert.

<mark_weaver>s/callees to do/callees do NOT/

<wingo>i think lloda wants to allocate data on the stack

<lloda>well, precisely because the C stack cannot be grown or checked portably, so using a VLA is risky, but it bothers me to call scm_gc_malloc or scm_gc_malloc_pointerless for local data

<wingo>the vm is not really designed for variable stack frame sizes, is the thing

<wingo>it would be nice to support some kind of arena allocation but i think the vm stack is probably the wrong place to do it

<wingo>my guess is that a better gc is the right solution :)

<lloda>hmmm, ok.

<CustosLimen>is there something like rvm and bundler for guile ?

<mark_weaver>CustosLimen: You might take a look at GNU Guix <http://gnu.org/s/guix>

<dsmith-work>Tuesday Greetings, Guilers

<mark_weaver>hi dsmith-work!

<CustosLimen>mark_weaver, guix is nice - but I also dunno if it will work well on solaris

<mark_weaver>CustosLimen: alas, it would have to be ported to Solaris.

<mark_weaver>currently supported architecture+kernel combinations are: x86_64-linux, i686-linux, mips64el-linux, armhf-linux, with work-in-progress on GNU/Hurd.

<CustosLimen>yeah

<CustosLimen>but actually to be fair I dunno if rvm works on solaris

<mark_weaver>on the plus side, porting Guix to other architecture+kernel combinations requires only a modest amount of work, as long as GNU libc and GCC+binutils works well on it. I added the mips64el-linux and armhf-linux ports to Guix. The process is mostly automated, although there are typically minor problems that crop up along the way.

<mark_weaver>but even so, I suppose this is not the answer you were looking for :-/

<davexunit>CustosLimen: rvm is terrible and best avoided.

<davexunit>ACTION is professional ruby programmer

<davexunit>Guix is definitely our recommendation. it handles the *full* dependency graphs of any software.

<davexunit>Guile, like Ruby, has some extensions that are implemented completely or partly in C, or interface with C libraries via the FFI

<davexunit>Bundler can't handle the C dependencies, but Guix can.

<turbopape>Hi guys, for this year's clojurecup, we implemented a little scheme using Clojure Macros :

<turbopape>clojurecup.parenode.org:9000

<turbopape>Would be happy to have your feedback !

***jmd` is now known as jmd

<hwpplayer1>Hi friends , what's going on

<hwpplayer1>I'm learning C , i see some java code and learning python too.Should i start with Lisp before Guile or just start with Guile and don't look back ?

<davexunit>hwpplayer1: lisp is a family of languages, not a single one.

<davexunit>the two major flavors are Scheme and Common Lisp.

<mark_weaver>hwpplayer1: I would recommend the books "The Little Schemer" and "The Seasoned Schemer"

<hwpplayer1>mark_weaver : i wrote it down i'll search

<hwpplayer1>I like learning languages and it is not bad for me to be a Lisp like languages student

<hwpplayer1>I'll look at Common Lisp , Scheme and Guile together

<hwpplayer1>And i'll see what are the differences between them

<hwpplayer1>I'll use Guile if i can

<paroneayea>hello #guile

<hwpplayer1>"The Little Schemer which edition ?

<hwpplayer1>i downloaded 4th edition

<davexunit>hwpplayer1: get the most recent

<hwpplayer1>davexunit : i couldn't understand do you mean language or something else ?

<daviid>downloaded? I tought this book was 'purchase only'

<daviid>hi guilers!

<OrangeShark>hwpplayer1: he means latest edition of the Little Schemer which is the 4th edition

<hwpplayer1>Okay thanks

<paroneayea>whoo, I can finally talk about this: https://stripe.com/blog/open-source-retreat-2016-grantees

<paroneayea>:)

<OrangeShark>congrats paroneayea :)

<daviid>paroneayea: wow cool! congrat. did not know this existed actually :)

<hwpplayer1>new web page is great btw

<hwpplayer1>did you write it with guile :),

<OrangeShark>hwpplayer1: check the bottom of the site, it has a link to the source code

<hwpplayer1>ok

<hwpplayer1> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guile/guile-web.git does that website use GitLab Community edition

<OrangeShark>it is hosted on savannah and I think the source code browsing uses cgit

<OrangeShark> http://savannah.gnu.org/

<hwpplayer1>yes i'm a member of that platform

<davexunit>paroneayea: congrats!

<davexunit>this is really great

<paroneayea>davexunit: yeah, I was surprised that it really *was* no strings attached

<davexunit>I should apply for the next round ;)

<hwpplayer1>How should i spell Guile

<davexunit>like you just did

<hwpplayer1>Linuks :)

<hwpplayer1>not linax or something else

<paroneayea>davexunit: guixops might be a great project for it :)

<davexunit>paroneayea: would be a hard sell to both my partner and employer to go work in SF for 3 months ;)

<davexunit>would be sweet though!

<davexunit>I'm excited to see the cool stuff you're able to get done with mediagoblin during your time there!

<paroneayea>davexunit: :)

<daviid>paroneayea: me too: rewritting the all thing in guile :)

<paroneayea>daviid: I kind of wish mediagoblin was in guile, but that might be hard to do at this point, and kind of a distraction from getting 1.0 out the door ;)

<paroneayea>however, expect *future* federation web applications in guile :)

<daviid>paroneayea: yeah, sure, I was joking, and know you'd like that too...

<guile-guest7>Hi! Is there anything like (sum list), or do I have to write my own function?

<paroneayea>hey davexunit

<paroneayea>did I show you http://www.eblong.com/zarf/zweb/lists/

<paroneayea>an interactive fiction game where you learn lisp, written to run in the z-machine

<mark_weaver>guile-guest7: (fold + 0 list)

<mark_weaver>(use-modules (srfi srfi-1)) to get 'fold'

<guile-guest7>Thanks mark_weaver :)

<mark_weaver>you're welcome!

<alezost>or: (apply + list)

<hwpplayer1>Could you please show me a simple math example of Guile

<hwpplayer1>Like 4 + +

<hwpplayer1>4 + 4

<vanila>(+ 4 4)

<hwpplayer1>Like Lisp that i saw on a website

<vanila>You should read the free online book for learning scheme

<hwpplayer1>I need to look at guile page first

<hwpplayer1>i downloaded "The Little Schemer" and "The Seasoned Schemer"

<mouldysammich>vanila: What is the free online book for learning scheme? Ive been looking to get a somewhat decent knowledge of scheme so i can adequetly develop things with Guile. At the moment i am just coasting off the Guile reference manual

<OrangeShark>mouldysammich: I have a couple bookmarked, let me look for them

<hwpplayer1>okay thanks

<vanila>mouldysammich, this is my favorite https://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html

<OrangeShark> http://ds26gte.github.io/tyscheme/index.html

<mouldysammich>Huh, i was not aware it was available for free

<OrangeShark> http://www.htdp.org/

<OrangeShark> http://scheme.com/tspl4/

<mouldysammich>Great thanks very much.

<hwpplayer1>thanks

<hwpplayer1>have a good day , take care bye

<OrangeShark>bye hwpplayer1

<CustosLimen>hi