IRC channel logs

<Petruchio>Hello. I'm trying to build Guile into a project. Following an example in the Guile manual, I've put 'PKG_CHECK_MODULES([GUILE], [guile-2.0])' into configure.in, but then ./configure breaks with: ./configure: line 5565: syntax error near unexpected token `GUILE,'

<Petruchio>I have very little experience with autoconf. Also not sure if this is the right place to ask; if not, let me know.

<amz3>héllo :)

<wleslie>woo, asyncio for guile

<wleslie>except not asyncio, because asyncio is a poor-mans twisted, clearly. and twisted is a poor-mans E.

<taylanub>wleslie: what's E?

<civodul> http://erights.org/

<amz3>where is asyncio for guile?

<amz3>(and gremlin is a poor-mans streams)

<amz3>(btw I forgot (cut) form which is srfi 26, which helps with currying)

<amz3>wleslie: where did you see asyncio for guile?

<wleslie>hmm, guile-devel archives aren't working

<wleslie>amz3: http://www.mail-archive.com/guile-devel@gnu.org/msg12882.html

<amz3>thx I did not receive it for some reasons I check if i subscribed

<amz3>ok I got it, it's just that i'm inbox-blind

<paroneayea>davexunit: still reeling from that meeting with sussman

<paroneayea>holy shit

<paroneayea>oh you mentioned it in #guix, ha

<davexunit>paroneayea: yeah me too

<davexunit>unfortunately I also had a very scary moment when I left the party that I'm also recovering from.

<paroneayea>davexunit: oh no :(

<paroneayea>davexunit: are you ok?

<davexunit>I'm totally fine, but I felt that I might have been mugged or otherwise harmed while going into the subway last night.

<paroneayea>yeek

<paroneayea>well, glad you're ok, davexunit !

<davexunit>yes. me too.

<paroneayea>:)

<davexunit>but yeah, that Sussman discussion, wow!

<paroneayea>yeah!

<paroneayea>(or, :( to bad experiences but :) to being ok!)

<paroneayea>and :D :D :D to sussman discussion

<davexunit>I will be sending him an email later

<paroneayea>davexunit: I sent an email to my brother trying to capture the conversation so I wouldn't forget

<paroneayea>I'm thinking maybe also of writing a blogpost after I dive into the Propagator paper he's talking about

<paroneayea>or maybe even before

<davexunit>for now, I have some guests arriving, so I'm going to be AFK

<paroneayea>ok!

<paroneayea>I think sussman is right on in his suggestion on how to reason about a good AI sysem

<davexunit>paroneayea: started reading it, it's like an expanded version of "Propogation of Constraints" from SICP chapter 3

<davexunit>want to implement in Guile

<paroneayea>davexunit: cool, good to know

<paroneayea>me too

<davexunit>alright, ttyl!! happy hacking and all that! the future is bright!

<paroneayea>davexunit: exciting that it can also be run over a network, too

<paroneayea>lata!

<amz3>paroneayea: what is this propagator paper?

<paroneayea>amz3: you can find a bunch of links to it on http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/gjs/

<amz3>yeah, this sounds crazy

<paroneayea>I'm really interested in it

<paroneayea>going to read more

<amz3>the idea of having a program that can evolve cleanly is indeed appealing

<amz3>the description make me think much more is possible

<paroneayea>davexunit: http://wehu.github.io/mo/

<amz3>\\o/ finished my unit tests (the subset i'm interested in at least)

<amz3>luckily I'm not paid by the number of procedure i write ^^

<amz3>Q: is it possible to retrieve the signature of a procedure?

<amz3>This seems to be the latest report regarding probagator: http://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/44215

<amz3>another discussion http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/3250

<amz3>to sum up what I've understood, it's FRP at the language level whatever it means

<amz3>FRP/constraint programming

<amz3>I think i can circuvent the fact that I can not retrieve the signature of procedure by using a rest argument like (define (foo . rest)

<amz3>)

<goglosh>could someone explain to me the guile-emacs thing?

<goglosh>is it emacs with a guile layer?

<goglosh>or a fork of emacs that somehow uses guile

<taylanub>goglosh: see EmacsWiki for GuileEmacs

<taylanub> http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GuileEmacs

<taylanub>AFAIK that's the most comprehensive summary of the whole topic. tell me if you know of any information that's missing there and I'll add it (or you can do so if you want).

<goglosh>alright

<goglosh>I might try it

<goglosh>even tho I am comfortable with elisp

<goglosh>well I g2g, seeya

<amz3>ACTION cooking a new potion

<taylanub>yay, I can load R7RS libraries from Guile now...

<daviid>hello guilers

<daviid>luk: i installed gcc 5.2 here and make check fails... did you succeed installing gcc 4.9.3 ?

<luk>daviid: yes, I installed the gcc, but make check still fails

<luk>its exactly version 4.9.3

<luk>I did the usual make distclean; ./autogen [...] make check

<daviid>luk: can you check your config.log for that guile-gnome used gcc 4.9.3

<luk>oh, it didnt

<daviid>luk: I don't think you had the appropriate setting

<luk>:)

<luk>ok I'll try again

<daviid>where did you install gcc 4.9.3

<taylanub>random question: how many R6RS libraries does everyone know of, out in the wild? so far I counted: ijp's PFDs, fectors, and quickcheck; Weinholt's Industria; and a msgpack lib and a protobuf lib I found by googling "r6rs libraries" and stuff.

<luk>daviid: I just removed the gcc 5 and made a symlik to the new one so that /usr/bin/gcc now points to the new version. now compiling again.

<luk>made an error before, should be fine now

<daviid>luk: it may not be sufficient, it would have been better if you installed 4.9.3 in /opt as well and use the setting i pasted 2 days ago 'bash setting to make with guile-2.0 in /opt ...'

<luk>ok 2 test passed 1 failed. thats progress! :)

<daviid>luk: i don't trust your environment, I'm sorry

<luk>youre probably right

<daviid>using gcc 4.9.3, all tests must pass

<daviid>luk: where did you installed gcc?

<luk>/usr/bin

<luk>its /usr/bin/gcc-4.9

***sbp_ is now known as sbp

<daviid>too bad

<daviid>did you cimpiled it manually?

***micro` is now known as Guest94060

<luk>actually the output of make check is strange... first it says all 3 tests passed then it tries again wrapset.scm which has pased before and that test fails.

<luk>yes I compiled it manually

<daviid>luk: it's going difficult to progress if we are not very systematci, with your env, I can't tell if there are still gcc 5.2 bits ...

<daviid>why did you not specified /opt [I'm very curious :)]

<luk>well I thought it might be better to completely remove gcc with pacman, which I did now and then I installed the new gcc package in its place

<luk>so there should be no trace of the old one left acutaly

<daviid>luk: as a rule of thumb, it's better to install anything you compile 'manually' elsewhere thyen the package manager

<daviid>luk: 'im very surprised pacman let you remove gcc by the way

<daviid>anyway

<luk>well its a pretty clean system anyway

<luk>and i actually generated a standard package for gcc, just with the new (that is, old) version

<luk>hm

<daviid>luk: why did you have to make a symlink 'by hand' if you built a gcc package?

<luk>actually hello world.scm now works fine. and the test is "roughly" passed. I actually have no time today so I would consider the case closed...

<luk>it only installed /usr/bin/gcc-4.9 . don't know why

<luk>a good designed package description actually

<luk>I could install simultaeous with the standard gcc

<daviid>i'm curious you still had guile-gnome make check failures

<daviid>luk: that is not good and is not 'normal'. we should recompile guile using 4.9.3 as well

<daviid>luk: so you can run gtk/examples/hello.scm ? then it's ok yes. note that the examples are very old, not all work, but: ./gtk/examples/guile-gtk-demo/guile-gtk-demo.scm and try to look at some example

<daviid>luk: I understand you don't have much time today... I take from what you wrote above that despite 1 make check failure, guile-gnome works right? when you have a minute, please confirm this assumption and if you can, please paste the failure, thanks! and welcome to guile-gnome, any quizz I'm here ... thanks for your patience as well, I will add a note on the web pages about gcc 5.x not [yet] being supported and work on that.

<luk>daviid: Yes, guile-gnome seems to work now. I pasted the results of make check here: http://paste.lisp.org/+3CLV http://paste.lisp.org/+3CLV/1

<daviid>luk: thanks

<luk>well thank you, daviid.

<luk>see you again online I hope

<daviid>luk: these are not guile-gnome make check failures, it's because guile can't find unit-test. where did you installed guile-lib? I suspect you installed guile-lib before we recompiled guile ...

<luk>yes, I did. It has prefix /usr

<daviid>luk: I'm always here. ok, to be clean, you should uninstall everyhting that you compiled using the previous guile version and recompile/install in /opt: g-wrap, guile-cairo, guile-lib in /opt and using the bash setting ... then you would be on the safe side! I recommend you to take that time... but as you wish of course

<daviid>and recompile guile-gnome as well of course, after the above...

<luk>ok, thanks for the suggestion. I'll probably do that, but I will have to find time for it.

<Petruchio>Hello. Anyone have experience with building Guile into a project using autoconf? I've tried a number of variations on `PKG_CHECK_MODULES([GUILE], [guile-2.0])`, which I found in the docs, in configure.in, and I'm not getting anywhere.

<luk>daviid: take care. afk

<daviid>luk: ok youy too, tx

<Petruchio>For that case, the error is: syntax error near unexpected token `GUILE,'

<Petruchio>Which suggests that the guile.m4 file isn't getting pulled in, but I'm not sure how to fix that.

<daviid>Petruchio: you can try this: 'm4' subdir and copy guile.m4 there, then in your configure.ac file add AC_CONFIG_MACRO_DIR([m4])

<daviid>s/add an 'm4' subdir to your project...

<daviid>then you check guile like this:

<mark_weaver>Petruchio: set ACLOCAL_PATH to include the directories where guile.m4 and pkg.m4 can be found, and then rerun autoreconf

<daviid>GUILE_PKG([2.2, 2.0])\\nGUILE_PROGS([2.0.11])

<mark_weaver>Petruchio, daviid: you should *not* copy guile.m4 into your project. guile.m4 should be installed in <PREFIX>/share/aclocal when you install guile

<mark_weaver>on debian derivatives, the relevant package is guile-2.0-dev

<Petruchio>mark_weaver: I'd tried ACLOCAL_PATH, and didn't get it working. That said, I might have done it wrong.

<mark_weaver>Petruchio: the variable needs to be set when autoreconf runs. by the time 'configure' is run, it's too late.

<mark_weaver>I have to go afk now. good luck!

<Petruchio>Thank you.

<Petruchio>Odd thing is, guile.m4 is in /usr/share/aclocal, with a lot of other m4 files, so I'd have thought it would be found.

<mark_weaver>Petruchio: you may also look at GNU Guix <http://gnu.org/s/guix> as a project based on guile that uses best practices

<mark_weaver>ACTION goes afk

<daviid>mark_weaver: I understand, but I've had problem using ACLOCAL_PATH, even civodul could not help [at that time] to find out what the problem was, then I started to add m4/ which I find cool because users may not have guile installed yet, and i wrote guile-gnome.m4, guile-clutter.m4 ...

<Petruchio>Thanks again. I'd tried copying code over from GNUCash, but no luck.

<amz3>command line interface is not an easy thing to do

<amz3>I mean I'm trying to build a mini-framework to build git-like cli and well there's plenty of holes

<amz3> https://github.com/amirouche/Culturia/blob/master/xote.scm#L175

<daviid>Petruchio: I recommend you try what I proposed, and also to start with i minimal configure.ac file which you grow slowly

<Petruchio>That would be nice, but I'm trying to mess with an existing project.

<Petruchio>I just tried ACLOCAL_PATH="/usr/share/aclocal" autoreconf -if, and that didn't fix it. I probably did it wrong, but I'm trying yours now. :-)

<Petruchio>At the moment, I just want to get anything working, right way or wrong.

<daviid>Petruchio: yes, I had quite a lot of problems related to ACLOCAL _and_ you can't expect users to have guile instgalled already right?

<daviid>if you build a project which checks if guile is installed, what vrsion ... that uses guile ... not good

<Petruchio>Yeah, if I actually got this working and useful for others, I'd want to pack guile along with it.

<Petruchio>At the moment, however, that

<Petruchio>...that's like talking about how I'll polish my Maserati.

<Petruchio>Got a few issues between here and there.

<daviid>Petruchio: not my area but people don't recommend that approach: let package managers lead with the dependencies instead...

<Petruchio>Yeah, I can see that. Not my area, either.

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<Petruchio>daviid: Now I have new and more interesting errors.

<daviid>but did it find guile?

<Petruchio>"PKG_PROG_PKG_CONFIG: command not found", "syntax error near unexpected token `guile-$v,'" and "PKG_CHECK_EXISTS(guile-$v, GUILE_EFFECTIVE_VERSION=$v, )'"

<daviid>Petruchio: could you paste the configure.ac file please, this is an old way to check for guile, I'd like to csee the all to recommend a solution

<daviid>lisppaste or something ...

<Petruchio>Sure.

<daviid>Petruchio: which guile version are you usijng as well, because it could be an old guile.m4 you copied ...

<Petruchio> http://pastebin.com/vJAEx1Ma

<Petruchio>Shouldn't be old; I just installed it on Arch Linux.

<daviid>ok

<Petruchio>2.0.11

<Petruchio>Search for the term Pinwyl in the pastebin.

<Petruchio>There are two instances.

<Petruchio>After the second instance, you'll see some other attempts commented out.

<Petruchio>Not to mention a few efforts to stick Chibi Scheme in there.

<paroneayea>hello!

<daviid>Petruchio: I'm still looking thinking

<Petruchio>Sure, take your time.

<paroneayea>does not appear that the async email I sent hit the mail archives which is too bad because I'd like it recorded for posterity

<paroneayea>maybe I should put a copy on my blog or something.

<daviid>Petruchio: what automake version are you using?

<davexunit>paroneayea: the archives could we behind?

<paroneayea>might be

<paroneayea>davexunit: I don't know how they work admittedly!

<Petruchio>The autoconf is 2.69

<daviid>Petruchio: I belkeive it is autoconf/automake bug

<paroneayea>davexunit: I read more of the propagator stuff today and started to get excited

<daviid>not a guile.m4 bug

<paroneayea>really need to write up that blogpost capturing those things sussman said

<paroneayea>it took me a long time for me to fully process the software freedom component of it too

<Petruchio>Figures. One of those problems with not knowing something well: you have to assume that you're the problem, but it's not *always* you.

<davexunit>paroneayea: it's a pretty glowing endorsement of free software when one of the greatest minds in computer science says its crucial for the future of AI.

<daviid>Petruchio: could you add AC_PREREQ(2.61) and AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([1.12]) just before the AC_CONFIG_MACRO_DIR([m4]) and run again

<Petruchio>Well, that's intriguing... when you get the email in question up somewhere, I'd like to read it.

<daviid>oh sorry i see the line after is checking for 2.69

<Petruchio>You want me to add the AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE line?

<daviid>Petruchio: you can comment line 25, add the above and change but use 2.69 instread

<daviid>Petruchio: both AC_PREREQ(2.69) and AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE([1.12]) and comment line 25

<Petruchio> error: possibly undefined macro: AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE

<daviid>right

<daviid>you are using a too old automake version

<Petruchio>I've run into a number of other undefined macro issues.

<daviid>and guile.m4 requires at least 1.12

<daviid>check your automake package version