IRC channel logs

<paroneayea> http://faculty.hampshire.edu/lspector/push.html genetic programming language

<paroneayea>has a scheme implemenation: http://faculty.hampshire.edu/lspector/schush.ss

<daviid>if I do this (table (@ (align "right")) (tr (td (l "License")) ...)), then the vertical rendering wrt previous and next paragraph is weird: as if there were no table defined. If i do this instead (table #;(@ (align "right")) (tr (td (l "License")) ...)) it's fine, any idea why ?

<daviid> http://paste.lisp.org/+3BLC <- what's wrong ?

***jao` is now known as jao

<daviid>[fixed the tipo line 8, string-append, not sring-append, but still does not work

<daviid>and the tipo line 10, ?stat, not status, but still does not work :)

<paroneayea>weird

***nate_ is now known as n8a

<paroneayea>when I do a throw, when at the backtrace prompt, it shows it a function up from where it was actually thrown from

<daviid>got it right, sorry for the noise

<paroneayea>hm

<paroneayea>,locals shows me local variables, but what about variables in lexical scope?

<davexunit>that would be a looooong list

<paroneayea>davexunit: heh

<paroneayea>I wonder if there's a way to access them though

<davexunit>yes there's some way

<davexunit>but I don't know off the top of my head

<paroneayea>ACTION just now getting a handle on using more advanced guile debugging techniques

<paroneayea>I'm rather liking it

<davexunit>there is probably some procedure with 'environment' in the name that could help

<davexunit>I want to figure out how to do remote debugging

<paroneayea>davexunit: for guix? :)

<davexunit>no, that can't happen there.

<davexunit>but like, trip a debugging REPL in some arbitrary point of code and connecting to that.

<davexunit>I'd like that for Sly's game loop.

<davexunit>I'd like to trigger the debugging REPL when an exception is left uncaught in the game loop and have an existing REPL server client jump into it.

<davexunit>for debugging guix builds, the answer is 'guix environment --container'. we could never allow the user to mess with the actual build containers.

<paroneayea>wow, debugging guile is amazing.

<nalaginrut>morning guilers~

<amz3>héllo :)

<nalaginrut>yes, IMO we should study how to tweak GC...

<amz3>what do you mean?

<amz3>to force gc for instance?

<nalaginrut>amz3: http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-user/2015-09/msg00034.html

<amz3>ACTION thinks GNU epsilon has a feature like that..

<amz3>I mean tweak the GC

<amz3>It has supposed to be added to it

<amz3>not sure, did not have a look at it since a long time

<amz3>but here, I suppose, it's a matter of having a few procedures that allows to fine tune gc, not replace the gc with something different

<nalaginrut>GC in Guile hasn't been well studied yet, I mean how it really works, what's the activity in different scenario, and how to tweak it

<nalaginrut>at least I haven't seen such articles

<civodul>well, libgc itself has been studied a lot

<civodul>notably in the context of Scheme implementations such as Bigloo

<civodul>and we did some benchmarks when we switched from 1.8's home-made GC to libgc

<nalaginrut>I mean not well studied for writing applications with specific Scheme implementation

<nalaginrut>maybe well for bigloo

<taylanub>ACTION wonders how hash-for-each behaves on weak hash tables when a GC run deletes entries from the table in the middle of the for-each

<amz3>the way libgc works, allow me to use the vanilla wiredtiger bindings with guile without having to keep a reference to values between calls...

<amz3>vanilla wiredtiger *API*

<civodul>taylanub: removal is supposed to be atomic

<amz3>in cpython it doesn't work that way, at least with those bindings, once the program is out of the `(cursor-set-key cursor key)` procedure, the key reference is lost and the program try to `(cursor-insert cursor)` some random value found in the inplace of `key`

<amz3>in guile it works fine

<taylanub>civodul: in particular I wonder what happens when the table is shrinked. a naive implementation might go out-of-bounds on the bucket vector, I imagine. trying to test it out but I dunno when it's supposed to shrink back.

<civodul>taylanub: normally scm_i_rehash calls cannot happen concurrently with other accesses to the hash table

<civodul>the only thing that can happen concurrently is nullifying entries, since this is handled by the GC

<civodul>but there are checks for SCM_WEAK_PAIR_DELETED_P in hashtab.c

<civodul>anyway, it would still be useful to audit that code with a fresh eye :-)

<civodul>and IIRC there's an open bug in that area

<dsmith-work>Thursday Greetings, Guilers

<mark_weaver>taylanub, civodul: I haven't fully read the backlog, but wanted to mention that the handling of weak pointers is substantially reworked (and improved) in the 'master' branch, so I would advise not wasting much time looking at stable-2.0

<civodul>noted :-)

<davexunit>mark_weaver: ooh that is good news. I use weak hash tables for a major component of Sly.

<taylanub>mark_weaver: neat, thanks for the notice

<davexunit>it makes the "reactive" stuff play nice with the GC by making one direction of the doubly linked structure weak.

<davexunit>take that javascript reactive libraries.

<taylanub>ACTION painstakingly added ephemeral tables to SRFI-126 (hard to grok semantics; can't be explained solely in terms of weak and strong references)

<paroneayea>ohhhh I keep forgetting about case-lambda

<davexunit>occasionally useful

<davexunit>easily abused. I've abused it before. :)

<paroneayea>I like abusing features!

<taylanub>I use it extensively since I like to keep my code as close to RnRS/SRFIs as possible and case-lambda is standard now, optargs are in some not-widely-supported SRFI only

<taylanub>mark_weaver: BTW I don't know if you got my message a couple days ago; I'd love your input on SRFI-126 if you have time. I know you're often very busy though so no problem if you say no. live version is at https://github.com/TaylanUB/srfi-126/blob/master/srfi-126.md

<taylanub>civodul: ^ you too if you're interested (and wingo if he were around...)

<civodul>taylanub: i've seen it... just at the same time as SRFI-125

<civodul>and my first reaction was along the lines of, "why do we need 2 additional hash table APIs?"

<civodul>while we already have SRFI-69 and R6 and Guile's and...

<taylanub>we're in communication with J. Cowan and he encouraged me to give it a go. his is, well, in J. Cowan style :)

<civodul>heh :-)

<taylanub>mine is R6 based, since SRFI-69 has flaws

<civodul>okay

<civodul>i have to go, ttyl!

<mark_weaver>taylanub: thanks for the reminder; I'll try to find time, although as you say, I'm extremely busy and low on time lately.

<codemac>guile's repl had a change recently (i think) where now when a backtrace occurrs it's N levels deep instead of just 1 more.

<codemac>So when I mistype or some error condition hits, I have to type ,q 42 times to get out of it. Am I doing this wrong?

<daviid>codemac: this looks like the symptom of a bad install, what guile version? do you use geiser?

<codemac>daviid: yes, I have guile with guix

<daviid>geiser?

<daviid>guix is a distro

<codemac>sorry, I meant "yes I use geiser, and I use guile with guix as well"

<davexunit>codemac: try in the regular repl

<davexunit>sounds like a geiser setup issue

<daviid>codemac, then your geiser intallation is wrong/incomplete, double chack https://www.gnu.org/savannah-checkouts/non-gnu/geiser/geiser_2.html#Installation

<codemac>yeah, repl works fine in xterm. My apologies. Maybe I have geiser w/guix and an elpa geiser conflicting or something, I'll figure it out.

<daviid>codemac: bad/incomplete geiser install is a common 'prob', no worry

<daviid>why does our bot sometimes writes ACTION, somtimes our nick?

<dsmith-work>daviid: the bot has some fuzzy matching of nicks. Unfortunately, "seen" matches "sneek"

<dsmith-work>seen: botsnack?

<sneek>:)

<daviid>dsmith-work: anything we could do? [just curious]

<dsmith-work>Every once in a while I ahev half a gumption to rewrite the thing (it's just a sloppy port of a different bot to guile and bobot++)

<dsmith-work>The old sarabot from #scheme

<daviid>ok, tx for the info

<daviid>don't mind he thinks he's someoneelse from time to time, but the 'ACTION' [capital order...] is wierd

<dsmith-work>Hmm. I should look into directly matching the bots name. Bypass the fuzzy matcher.

<dsmith-work>I've enver seen that.

<sneek>ACTION is embarrased

<daviid>dsmith-work: read the log you'll see it everywhere in #guile and #guix

<daviid>weird*

<dsmith-work>Hm.. In my current erc buffer ACTION only appears twice. By daviid

<daviid>ok, i sware i see it quite a lot, but why ? can we change that ?

<dsmith-work>Not sure where that's coming from.

<dsmith-work>As I've said, never seen it.

<daviid>it's not just me, see #guix log as well ...

<dsmith-work>I'll try to rememeber to take a look when I get home.

<daviid>well if yu have wish and time of course ... sorry to bother you wih this

<dsmith-work>Oh, no problem.

<daviid>it just feels I am in military order something .. :)

<dsmith-work>Heh

<daviid>haha

<dsmith-work>sneek: logs?

<sneek>Someone once said logs is https://gnunet.org/bot/log/guile/

<daviid>guilers, commander, sir yes sir, ACTION

<daviid>haha

<dsmith-work>Hmm. I don't think Mark has a search in hit bot logs..

<dsmith-work>mark_weaver: Is there a way to search the bot logs?

<daviid>as another example

<dsmith-work>And sneek sent that?

<dsmith-work>IS #guix logged?

<dsmith-work>OR can I see the logs?

<daviid> https://gnunet.org/bot/log/guix

<dsmith-work>Tack

<dsmith-work>Ahh.

<dsmith-work>I bet that's civodul's IRC client

<dsmith-work>Or a typoe

<daviid>why me then?

<daviid>i use ERC

<daviid>civodul too i think

<dsmith-work>ACTION tries something

<daviid>ACTION thinks its our bot

<dsmith-work>But that message came from civodul, not the bot

<daviid>dsmith-work: but he wrote, 100% sure "/me ..."

<dsmith-work>daviid: I've got some emacs commands, /sneek and /sneeksay, that use "action"

<dsmith-work> /sneek wags

<sneek>ACTION wags

<dsmith-work> /sneeksay daviid: Hi!

<sneek>daviid: Hi!

<dsmith-work>I've got a suspicion civodul is using /me ... but his client is spitting out ACTION ...

<daviid>dsmith-work: #guile's today logs "[02:03:49] <paroneayea> ACTION just now getting a handle on using more advanced guile debugging techniques"

<daviid>09:43, taylanub ... and so on ...

<dsmith-work>sneek: logs

<sneek>Someone once said logs is https://gnunet.org/bot/log/guile/

<amz3>I did not say that

<dsmith-work>daviid: It's the logger

<amz3>:p

<amz3>:))

<dsmith-work>ACTION waves

<daviid>dsmith-work: ok, can we change that?

<dsmith-work>daviid: Pretty sure mark_weaver hosts the logs

<dsmith-work>daviid: I cannot

<dsmith-work>Yeah, whenver anyone does a "/me ..." is shows up in the logs as "ACTION ..."

<dsmith-work>ACTION pats seek on the head

<sneek>ACTION wags

<dsmith-work>sneek: botsnack

<sneek>:)

<daviid>ok, let's talk to mark_weaver then :)

<daviid>dsmith-work: cool!

<civodul>dsmith-work, daviid: i was using /me, indeed

<civodul>like this:

<civodul>ACTION uses /me

<daviid>yeah, I think we should try to change the way it's lgged

<daviid>logged*

<dsmith-work>daviid: ACTION clean up your room!

<daviid>:)

<daviid>how do you know? haha

<dsmith-work>daviid: Heh

<mark_weaver>dsmith-work, daviid: I don't host the logs. They are hosted by the gnunet folks. Christian Grothoff set it up.

<dsmith-work>mark_weaver: Ahh. Thanks.

<dsmith-work>ACTION puts the Finger of Accusation back on safety

<mark_weaver>I should say that I have some mixed feelings about easily searchable logs, for the same reason that I have mixed feelings about logs at all.

<daviid>int2hex do we have that somewhere ?

<dsmith-work>number->string

<mark_weaver>some people are made uncomfortable with the logging here, and I imagine it would be worse if their every utterance here was easily searchable.

<dsmith-work>daviid: ^^

<daviid>dsmith-work: to hexadecimal

<mark_weaver>daviid: number->string takes an optional second argument: the radix

<daviid>ah! ok

<daviid>tx both :)

<mark_weaver>np!

<xyh>how should I fix this : https://www.refheap.com/109404

<xyh>please :)

<xyh>I am using archlinux, and I do not wish to compile guile by my machine.

<adhoc>xyh: perhaps you can edit /usr/local/bin/guild to point to the correct path of guile at /usr/bin/guile

<adhoc>or create a symbolic like from;/usr/local/bin/guile to point to /usr/bin/guile

<adhoc>xyh: man ln

<xyh>but when I run /usr/local/bin/guild, it only trys to find guile in /usr/local/bin/, is it guild's problem ?

<daviid>xyh: did you just installed guile usng arch package? or do you have or did you have other gule installed?

<xyh>only by arch's pacman

<daviid>then you should talk to the maintainer

<daviid>it is an install problem, not a guile neither a guild problem

<xyh>but I have both /usr/local/bin/guild & /usr/bin/guild

<daviid>which precisly should not be the case

<daviid>hence my quizz

<xyh>I ll try to use pacman only

<xyh>guild is of guile-dbi right ?

<daviid>no, guild is guile related script that allows things such as compiling modules ... see the manual

<daviid>anyway, I strongly recommand you first sort out your installation

<xyh>it's cool now :)

<daviid>great

IRC channel logs

2015-09-10.log