IRC channel logs


back to list of logs

<atgnag>➜ skribilo-0.9.2 make -v
<atgnag>make: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<atgnag>That happened, after installing guile4emacs from the arch aur.
<ArneBab_>atgnag: guile4emacs likely needs guile 2.1
<ArneBab_>which version-info do you see when you run the command yguile?
<nalaginrut>morning guilers~
<amz3>héllo :)
<jalle>atgnag: I've been down that road
<jalle>it's no fun, a lot of stuff in arch depends on guile2.0 (like make)
<jalle>but guile4emacs conflicts with the regular guile, so it is removed
<atgnag>Hmm, I might try installing guilmacs in my home directory then.
<jalle>the way to go is to install guile-emacs via guix
<jalle>there's a done package
<jalle>way easier
<atgnag>jalle: My internet isn't dependable enough to use guix.
<jalle>hm... ok
<jalle>I tried to install guile4emacs somewhere else too
<atgnag>guix can't resume downloads or anything, so I can't really use it.
<jalle>it really takes forever to do anything
<jalle>took me like a day to install guile-emacs
<jalle>but I ran into problems when I tried to build guile-emacs from AUR with
<jalle>guile2.2 installed somehere other than where it was supposed to be
<jalle>but I think the trick is to not remove the regular arch guile
<jalle>because make needs that, and without make you're screwed
<daviid>jalle: guile-2.2 perfectly honors --prefix, and make does not need any guile version
<jalle>well I think the one packaged for arch does
<jalle>I had problems with that at least
<jalle>and I could install guile-2.2 whereever I wanted
<jalle>but then there was some problem with building emacs using it, I don't
<jalle>really remember
<daviid>jalle: I would be surprised arch would packaged guile-2.2, since it is a wip, only guile developers and some advaced users manually install it, to check their s/w compiles and to run some specific tests, benchmarks, but more then that is hasardous at this moment. guile-emacs is also a wip... but no make on earth requires anything alese then the automake :)
<jalle>nono I meant it depends on the guile currently in arch, which is 2.0
<jalle>that is the problem
<jalle>the arch package depends on glibc, guile and sh
<daviid>which package?
<daviid>that's not possible
<jalle>maybe not
<jalle>I probably misunderstood :)
<jalle>all I was saying is that the thing that workder for me for installing
<jalle>guile-emacs was doing it through guix
<daviid>better talk to #guix then
<daviid>fyi, on debian, there are 2 packages, make and make-guile, which are 2 diff packages that conflicts, maybe you should write to the arch maintaner, don't know. but installing guile-emacs from guix you'd better talk to the guix folks on #guix, there are very friendly and will surely help you
<jalle>I'm lurking there too :)
<jalle>but that was no problem, it just took a lot of time
<jalle>it wasn't me who was gonna install it, it was atgnag :)
<civodul>Hello Guilers!
<artyom-poptsov>Hello civodul
<daviid>heya civodul, gone sleep soon but good day! :)
<daviid>thanks god we have logs :)
<nalaginrut>hmm...guile will copy two stacks while capturing continuations
<nalaginrut>C stack and VM stack...
<nalaginrut>sounds not so efficient for actors
<nalaginrut>sorry it's not C stack but continuation stack
<nalaginrut>but yes, two...
<remi`bd>yes, not good for coroutines
<remi`bd>would it be possible to use one of those C coroutine library via FFI?
<remi`bd>the problem of these libraries is portability, though
<nalaginrut>well, fortunately I found it only copy VM stack in partial continuation
<nalaginrut>so call/cc is useless anyway
<nalaginrut>and copy on use
<nalaginrut>remi`bd: I think delimited-continuation is good enough for coroutines
<nalaginrut>could be optimized anyway
<civodul>i guess the problem of remi`bd is that they cannot capture the C stack
<civodul>and the GNUnet bindings involve a lot of C stuff, obviously
<nalaginrut>alright, the stack is captured when abort, not calling
<dsmith-work>Wednesday Greetings, Guilers
***dje is now known as xdje
<PythonNut>Hello everyone. I just popped by to asked what the current state of GuileEmacs is. Has it been abandoned?
<davexunit>PythonNut: it's not abandoned.
<davexunit>but development is sporadic.
<davexunit>guile emacs works now, albeit slowly. the remaining technical work is to optimize the elisp implementation, AFAIK.
<PythonNut>davexunit: If it's in workning condition, is there a way for people to easily start testing it? Or is it mostly moot as the major performance problems are already known?
<davexunit>PythonNut: the "easiest" way is probably to install the Guix package manager (also written in Guile) and run 'guix package -i guile-emacs'
<davexunit>that will let you try it out, though it's not going to be particular usable in its current state.
<davexunit>paroneayea here is the one that made this package for people who wanted to at least see it actually work
<PythonNut>davexunit: okay, cool. I've actually been looking for an excuse to try one of the new distros with functional package management, so I might take it for a swing when I get the time.
<davexunit>PythonNut: awesome! head over to #guix if you get stuck.
<davexunit>I think the guile emacs project could use some fundraising. pretty much all of the development is done during google summer of code.
<PythonNut>davexunit: Thanks. I was wondering a bit about that. Did they not do GSOC2015?
<davexunit>I guess not.
<davexunit>I think the project needs a couple more hackers who are experienced with guile internals, emacs interals, or both.
<PythonNut>davexunit: I wish I could help, but I have a hard time working with huge masses of C. I bet a lot of people do.
<davexunit>it's a tough job.
<davexunit>though with elisp implemented on guile will result in less masses of C :)
<PythonNut>Not to mention other rediculously cool stuff. :)
<davexunit>yeah, it will unlock some potential future emacs features.
<davexunit>threading is one thing, but elisp code is *not* thread-safe so I dunno what it would take to make threading usable.
<PythonNut>It wouldn't be too hard to introduce a new thread-safe function primitive with dynamic scope, would it?
<davexunit>I don't know what trickery would be needed
<PythonNut>Unfortunately, I don't either. One of my personal goals is to get competent enough at C to contribute to some of the big open-source projects. I'm in high school, and I have a lot of time to learn, so I'm hoping I can make it before I get too old. You guys will probably be done with GuileEmacs by that time, but I'm sure there will be plenty to do.
<davexunit>learn some Scheme while you're at it. ;)
<davexunit>we're friendly around here.
<PythonNut>Oh yea. I'm already decently good at Elisp. I tried Scheme about a year ago, but I ended up quitting because all the compilers used different module systems and I had to port my code each time. I suppose it wouldn't be too bad to stick with one, but the Scheme community seemed pretty fragmented.
<PythonNut>And I'm pretty into compiler design (don't know anything, but I love analyzing what the compilers do), so I spent way too much time trying to get Stalin to work.
<davexunit>PythonNut: it's important to realize that Scheme is a family of languages. there is standard Scheme, but Guile, Racket, Chicken, etc. are languages in their own right.
<davexunit>others may disagree, but I think it's best to just pick one that suits you.
<davexunit>Guile suits me best, so I use it.
<PythonNut>Out of curiosity, why is that?
<davexunit>I don't know all of the reasons, but Scheme has traditionally been a minimal language specification, leaving implementors free to embellish with their own features.
<davexunit>each member of the Scheme family has different features and use-cases.
<PythonNut>Oh, I meant why does Guile suit you?
<davexunit>oh sorry
<davexunit>Guile shares the Emacs philosophy
<davexunit>of being hackable and extensible at runtime.
<davexunit>I find that other Schemes are more static, such as Racket.
<PythonNut>Ah, I get that.
<davexunit>I've heard this dubbed as "practical user freedom"
<davexunit>sure, you can change the source to any program, but usually that involves recompiling it or restarting it or something
<davexunit>whereas with Emacs, and also with Guile, you can just change the running program
<PythonNut>Hm... that's an interesting thought.
<davexunit>it's a lot more practical to exercise your freedom.
<davexunit>there's less barriers
<PythonNut>I have to get to class now, but thanks! It seems very friendly here.
<davexunit>PythonNut: see you around!