<linas>so ..ecmascript is being revived for guile!? <linas>ArneBab: I believe that IBM has a patent for executing encrypted binaries without unencrypting them (under certain tight restrictions) <linas>I had this explained to me by the IBM researcher who I think eventually filed the patent .. he wanted me to work on it. <linas>Something about having an instruction: add, multiply, shift, branch, you did not know what instruction it was, because its encrypted, but you could still execute it. <linas>but I guess that is the opposite of what you meant by your "privacy/turing complete" comment. <mark_weaver>I don't see how a machine could possibly execute code efficiently without having access to the unencrypted code and data, at least not in the general case. <mark_weaver>so the idea wasn't simply to decrypt the code inside the processor? <turbofail>might have been some sort of homomorphic encryption thing <mark_weaver>paroneayea, bipt: when I try to run 'guile-emacs' from the guix package, I get this error: "Cannot open load file: No such file or directory, emacs-lisp/byte-run" <iyzsong>same here, 'emasc -Q' gave me more lucky <mark_weaver>share/emacs/24.4.50/lisp/emacs-lisp/byte-run.el exists in the output of the guile-emacs package, but apparently that is not sufficient for it to successfully load it <nalaginrut>linas: could it be something like ROP gadget, I mean the principle? ***michel_mno_afk is now known as michel_mno
<mbuf>are there any examples of websites built with guile? <nalaginrut>linas: oh, I was wrong, it seems homomorphic encryption <nalaginrut>mbuf: or if you're looking real practical sites built with Guile, wingo's blog and my blog are built with tekuti, one of the blog system with pure Guile scheme <mbuf>nalaginrut, I am looking for a way to generate custom HTML, CSS and JavaScript from org files <mbuf>nalaginrut, which are revisioned with git; just wondering if Tekuti can be customized for the same <nalaginrut>mbuf: I'm concentrating on dynamic page generator, I think someone wants to write a static one <nalaginrut>mbuf: anyway, web-artanis.com is generated by static one from chicken scheme, since we don't have one so far <mbuf>nalaginrut, let me play with GNU Artanis and see <nalaginrut>mbuf: the latest Artanis has big progress now, if you're familiar with rails or other modern web framework, maybe you'll pick it up quickly <nalaginrut>anyway, I'll release 0.1.0 when I done MVC, it's close <mbuf>nalaginrut, yes, I am familiar with Rails <mbuf>nalaginrut, and I have been looking for something similar with Scheme/Lisp <mbuf>nalaginrut, will give it a spin soon <nalaginrut>mbuf: the new Artanis *maybe* similar to rails, but not same ;-P <nalaginrut>anyway, there're lot of work to do in the future <mbuf>nalaginrut, any document that you recommend to get started with Guile? <nalaginrut>we still need a good package manager for Artanis then... <nalaginrut>mbuf: oh, you may read the manual of Artanis, there're some suggestions <mbuf>nalaginrut, okay; package manager as in? <nalaginrut>mbuf: one may write plugins taking advantages of Artanis modules <nalaginrut>but it's unlimited to Artanis, sometimes when you build a webapp, you need some prerequists <nalaginrut>mbuf: there's no plan yet, I hope it's as good as npm <mbuf>nalaginrut, I get the idea <nalaginrut>the simple roadmap is MVC->strong server core->pkg manager <mbuf>nalaginrut, artanis might be a good to help me get started with guile <mbuf>nalaginrut, does guile support Unicode characters? <mbuf>maybe use something similar to guix for managing modules for artanis <nalaginrut>mbuf: yes, it's one of the ideas, but I still have no plan what kind of pkg manager do we need <duud>nalaginrut: you are the artanis guy, right? <duud>not yet but thinking about it <duud>but now I need just to render a sortable database table in html <duud>I think artanis is to heavy for this <nalaginrut>duud: if you just need something like ORM, you can still use Artanis <duud>actually I cant on my webhoster <nalaginrut>duud: it's fine, you don't have to run Artanis server, just use the relational-mapping as a lib <nalaginrut>duud: oh, good question, it's only for prototyping and personal usage now, it's still in Alpha <duud>how is your feeling about it? :) <nalaginrut>but the relational-mapping interface may not change in close future <nalaginrut>duud: I still can't evaluate it now, since I'm working on 0.1 hardly before I use it in a Internet-of-Things project <nalaginrut>It's better to evaluate when I use it in real project for a time <nalaginrut>so before this happen, I would suggest folks play it for fun <duud>yea, I reading your manual :) <nalaginrut>enjoy it, and please don't hesitate to ask, irc/github/mailing-list are all fine <duud>yes, I'll use artanis, hopefully it won't explode :) <duud>are there any new/undocumented features? <nalaginrut>duud: well, so many new/undocumented in git repo <nalaginrut>and the interfaces are unstable, so please don't use latest dev version for any project <nalaginrut>duud: most of new features are based on old (documented) features, you may treat them as low-level things <duud>nalaginrut: the semantics of the word/object table are somewhat strange. I mean in this example (my-table 'get table-name ...) <nalaginrut>duud: maybe, I'm sorry, I'm not English native user ;-P <duud>nalaginrut: I don't have a better name for it either. But it is actually a procedure representing a connection I think. <duud>nalaginrut: hmm also there is no relational mapping in this abstraction, but I could be totally wrong, I'm reading it for the first time <duud>nalaginrut: I mean some procedure/object representing a relation not just a table <ArneBab>linas: executing encrypted code sounds horrible… like the stuff I don’t want my computer to be able to do. <ArneBab>linas: or rather: it sounds like it requires something in my computer which I cannot control. <duud>ArneBab: Yes that's bad and it's the only purpose of encrypted code <duud>nalaginrut: 32bit guile compiled, hope it runs on my webhoster. I'll try it. I hope I can give you some feedback / share some ideas. So thanks for hacking on it ;) <nalaginrut>sneek: later tell duud sorry I was leaving for a meeting. And yes, it's not mapping a table but a connection, I planed an abstract level to hold a table with a helper function, so maybe my-table is not a proper name ;-) <nalaginrut>sneek: later tell duud and please make sure it's 2.0.11+ <nalaginrut>sneek: later tell duud FPRM is working-in-progress, so yes, there's no relations mechanism between tables yet, I'm trying to find good way to design, but slowly ;-P <mbuf>are there any performance benchmarks for guile? <taylanub>well there were some benchmarks putting 2.0 against 2.2, but not among other Scheme implementations. <taylanub>also performance and especially benchmarks seem to be often overrated and not nearly a precise enough estimation of whether the language/implementation will suit your needs... <lloda>Guile includes a benchmark suite <lloda>look in benchmark-suite/ in the repo <lloda>if you mean charts &c I don't know of current ones <linas>nalaginrut, yes it was homomorphic encryption. Judging by the dates in wikipedia, I was told about it before anyone published anyting on it. <linas>thanks for reminding me of this <wingo>> ,optimize (lambda (f x) (let lp ((x x)) (let ((x* (f x))) (if (eq? x x*) x* (lp x*))))) <wingo> (let ((x* (f x))) (if (eq? x x*) x* (f x*)))) <wingo>pretty broken that peval has to think about assigned lexicals :P <ArneBab>it would provide software as a service without exposing the data to the service provider <ArneBab>spending CPU cycles on an operation which you know is correct but whose result you’ll never see. <wingo>whew, fixed this bug. takes a while to page peval back in... *dsmith-work orders a larger page cache for wingo <ArneBab>wingo: did you see the info from bipt about problems with too few roots for importing the guile-emacs elisp files in master? <ArneBab><bipt> another problem is that guile only allows you to load a fixed number of compiled programs, so it's not practical to simply compile and execute each toplevel form as a file is loaded; guile-emacs has to 'eval' tree-il expressions to avoid hitting the limit <ArneBab><bipt> if the limit didn't exist, startup would still be slow (maybe slower!) but overall performance would be better <wingo>ArneBab: yeah, we probably need to import libgc to fix that <wingo>dunno if bipt has started writing a better evaluator tho <wingo>i mean, using the better evaluator <wingo>holy frig that was a terrible bug. /me rebases <wingo>well, later this evening anyway <ArneBab>wingo: ok - I just wanted to make sure that you’re in the loop :) ***michel_mno is now known as michel_mno_afk
<wingo>dsmith-work: finally got around to fixing that master failure, tx for the headsup <mario-goulart>nalaginrut: hi. With regard to static pages: I don't know exactly how artanis work, but I could come with a hack in awful to generate static pages out of the resources table used by awful. Maybe artanis coud do something similar. It can be handy to, for example, make a static blog generator in artanis. <davexunit>didn't really know what they were about until you just posted about them ;) <davexunit>but yeah, they are used for the crypto stuff <paroneayea>is this another guix thing that I'm going to wish was in guile proper? ;) <paroneayea>not mentioned in the guile manual nor the guix manual