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2015-03-04.log

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<nalaginrut>morning guilers~
***__zxq9__ is now known as _zxq9_
<civodul>Hello Guilers!
<nalaginrut>heya
<wingo>moin
<wingo>civodul: you around? i have a gdb and guile policy question for you :)
<civodul>howdy wingo!
<civodul>tell me :-)
<wingo>yes
<wingo>so it's that the frame filter interface uses srfi-41
<wingo>which was only added in 2.0.9
<wingo>options:
<wingo> 1. GDB ships a srfi-41 module if the Guile doesn't have it
<wingo> 2. GDB uses the old (ice-9 streams) module always
<wingo> 3. GDB uses the old (ice-9 streams) module conditionally
<wingo> 4. We don't use streams, we use GDB iterators or something
<wingo> 5. We expose only the "decorator" interface and not the "filter"
<civodul>ooh, right
<wingo> interface if GDB was compiled without srfi-41 support, and
<wingo> internally use (ice-9 streams).
<wingo> 6. We could require a new version of Guile.
<wingo>i am leaning towards (2)
<wingo>they are all bad
<civodul>yeah i would suggest (2) as well
<civodul>or (1)
<wingo>yeah (1) seems not so great to me tho
<wingo>like what if gdb installs in one directory, then guile is updated, and maybe the code residualized in users of gdb's srfi-41 starts to redirect towards the guile srfi-41
<wingo>dunno
<wingo>not something i think gdb is ready to deal with imo
<wingo>and is there a plan on how to migrate away from ice-9 streams ?
<wingo>could we reimplement ice-9 streams in master so that they would be on top of srfi-41 streams?
<wingo>i think we could
<lloda>is scm_ilength an internal function? the name says so and it's undocumented but it's SCM_API not SCM_INTERNAL. Plus I miss an scm_c_length .
<wingo>i think it's not internal
<wingo>we can add scm_c_length
<civodul>i think scm_ilength is public "for historical reasons"
<wleslie>hysterical raisins
<civodul>:-)
<dsmith-work>Morning Greetings, Guilers
<civodul>bad news: gitorious.org is shutting down -> https://gitorious.org/
<ArneBab_>yepp ☹ the AGPL platform replaced by an MIT-platform with proprietary „Pro“-Version
<ArneBab_>we’re still too bad at financing the good projects :(
<ArneBab_>py2guile can now be built with GNU autotools - could you check whether the build succeeds for you? https://bitbucket.org/ArneBab/py2guile/downloads/py2guile-0.0.tar.gz
<ArneBab_>wget https://bitbucket.org/ArneBab/py2guile/downloads/py2guile-0.0.tar.gz; tar xf py2guile-0.0.tar.gz; cd py2guile-0.0/; ./configure; make
<mario-goulart>ArneBab_: for a moment I thought py2guile was a _tool_. :-)
<ArneBab_>
<mario-goulart>I was about to drool
<mario-goulart>Anyway, the fact that it is a book is very nice too.
<ArneBab_>it documents my path from Python to Guile - and how Guile feels more like the place where I want to be in the future.
<ArneBab_>(even though I like Python a lot)
<ArneBab_>mario-goulart: does the book build for you?
<ArneBab_>(it’s the first halfways clean autotools project I have for creating a PDF from an org-mode file)
<ArneBab_>bbl
<mario-goulart>ArneBab_: sorry, I think I don't have to tools to build it here (@ work).
<ArneBab_>mario-goulart: ok - do you think you can try building it aler?
<ArneBab_>later
<mario-goulart>I can try. Do you happen to know the required debian packages?
<mario-goulart>Maybe texlive-latex-extra ?
*mario-goulart used to use latex back when it was relatively feasible
<mario-goulart>Nowadays it seems that compiling a simple latex file requires installing multi-gigabytes of software.
<ArneBab_>I guess, yes
<ArneBab_>I’ll try to be here this evening again - cu
<ArneBab_>and thanks!
<mario-goulart>ArneBab_: I get "Symbol's function definition is void: org-latex-export-to-pdf"
<mario-goulart>Do I need any extra Emacs add-on or a minimum Emacs version?
<mario-goulart>I'm on 23.4.1
<daviid>wrt gitorious doan in may [how sad!] what are the good alternatives?
<davexunit>daviid: the problem is that there isn't an obvious good solution.
<davexunit>outside of self-hosting the free software git repo hosting software of your choice.
<daviid>davexunit: ok, tx, or either you rent and organize your own, or maybe, savannah nongnu ?
<daviid>davexunit: i think you have your own server somewhere, don't you?
<daviid>davexunit: is savannah not a good solution ?
<daviid>going afk for lunch, bbl
<davexunit>daviid: I don't have my own repo hosting server.
<davexunit>daviid: savannah is for gnu projects only. nongnu is an option, but you must have your projects approved there.
<davexunit>I have many git repos that aren't software projects at all that I want to host somewhere.
<daviid>davexunit: understood. right now i have kisê and hope it becoes a gnu project, but as is it lacks the autotools chain... but maybe i could ask it to be a nongnu project and store it at savannah.nongnu.org
<davexunit>I have things like my resume, emacs config, other dotfiles, etc. that I store in git repos. I just want a place that can be a dumping ground for all of them.
<daviid>of course, i also have extra stuff, it would be really nice to have another gitorious... agreed, if you come to know something in the near future let me know!
<davexunit>I think that maybe we (the collective gitorious refugees) need to build something
<daviid>davexunit: i was going to say the same :) but i don't have (a) the knowledge [security matters] and (b) not much time, but still i would consider helping such a project if i can be usefull and use it :)
<daviid>otherwize we end-up renting a server somewhere, even cheap it still is 'all your stuff are in the wolf mouth'
<davexunit>if I did something, I would just rent a VPS and set up gitlab or whatever
<davexunit>and try to quickly get volunteers to expand it and maintain it
<daviid>why gitlab ?
<davexunit>I dunno!
<davexunit>there's no clear winner here
<davexunit>gitlab has biggest following and the CE version *is* free software
<daviid>just a debian server git capable ssh configured is enough i think
<davexunit>but the less-good options have better licensing
<daviid>ah you 'want' to have browser cpapable git server, hum, don't know
<davexunit>having a web frontend is very good for visibility
<davexunit>for instance, at the FSF we have a gitolite server. there's no visibility there.
<davexunit>I want to set up something so our repos can be viewed and anonymously cloned by all.
<daviid>ok
<daviid>let's write one using guile
<dsmith-work>ALl that gitlab stuff is ruby
<davexunit>yup
<dsmith-work>Whhich I know absolutly nothing about.
<daviid>neither do i
<davexunit>I've done ruby development professionally for a few years
<davexunit>but I would never submit patches to gitlab because of the CLA :(
<daviid>is there a list of gpl git browsers somewhere?
<davexunit>I don't know of one
<davexunit>gitlab and such are more than just browsers
<davexunit>if all you wanted to do was view a repo, then gitweb and cgit do it well.
<davexunit>but gitlab and others add issue tracking, patch review, wikis, etc.
<daviid>well all i use is the savannah like tools: tree, commit, logs
<daviid>locally i use magit [very poorly, but it's ok for my needs]
<davexunit>well I use magit, too.
<ArneBab_>mario-goulart: you need org-mode 8.x
<ArneBab_>daviid: why does kisê lack the autotools chain? Couldn’t that be changed?
<ArneBab_>davexunit: so it also has a license agreement?
<ArneBab_>(why should anyone contribute?)
<davexunit>yeah
<ArneBab_>MIT+License agreement ← that’s fishy.
<davexunit>it's unfortunate
<daviid>ArneBab_: can be, should be changed of course, it's 1 of the things i have to do, lack of knowledge and lack of time to study the autotools, but i recentlt gained some, not good enough yet, but will get there
<davexunit>I wouldn't send them patches
<daviid>their license scheme is terrible
<ArneBab_>daviid: you’re using guile for kesê, so ho wmuch does the toolchain have to do?
<davexunit>what's kise?
<daviid>ArneBab_: check for guile-gnome, g-wrap, guile-cairo and really my knowledge was till very recently close to zero wrt the autotool chains
<daviid>davexunit: http://www.altosw.be/kise/
<ArneBab_>just checking for them is easy (though I’m nut sure whether I do it nicely)
<ArneBab_>nut→not
<ArneBab_>daviid: today I implemented the full autotools chain for building a PDF from org-mode, maybe that can help you.
<daviid>ArneBab_: tx: when you know everything is easy :) just help me debug why i can not make check guile-gnome devel branch then ... [an autotool related problem/bug]
<ArneBab_>- https://bitbucket.org/ArneBab/py2guile/src/510216be3dd285a102f107c0c4561518a2040a50/configure.ac?at=default
<daviid>ArneBab_: there are other projects closer to kisê, but thank you. it is that i don't have the time right now
<ArneBab_>from the install instructions it looks like you don’t really need anything complex, just copying files
<ArneBab_>(but I understand not having time - all too well)
<daviid>ArneBab_: patch welcome
<daviid>ArneBab_: do you use kisê ?
<ArneBab_>also for just a simple distribution tarball?
<ArneBab_>daviid: I looked at it, but for time keeping I generally just use org-mode
<daviid>ok. kisê is much more powerfull though [i think :)], anyway, testers/users welcome of course!
<ArneBab_>I don’t know whether it’s more powerful, but from the screenshots it looks easier to start.
<daviid>it is when you need to search for, work on a subset of your time entries and write a report to give to someone...
<daviid>but anyway, org mode is good too of course
<daviid>ArneBab_: it also allows to import other kisê's db [and soon subset] so really nice for remote colaborative work for which a project member has to analyse/produce time keeping reports. ok no more selling points here :) they're all on the website
<ArneBab_>daviid: I looked at the website and it looked useful, but not what I currently need (I don’t need to produce reports).
<daviid>ArneBab_: sure
<daviid>sneek: later tell davexunit i found this link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open_source_software_hosting_facilities
<sneek>Okay.
<ArneBab_>daviid: basic support for make dist: https://bpaste.net/show/864cac24ef04
<ArneBab_>daviid: though it currently only includes kise itself, not common
<daviid>ArneBab_: thanks!
<ArneBab_>I hope I wouldn’t get flogged by autotools purists too badly for using it to simply select the distribution tarballs :)
<daviid>ArneBab_: ok, but tx for the help
<ArneBab_>adding common would be pretty easy (just add a git clone)
<daviid>the configure.ac you pasted laks also other dependencies right ?
<ArneBab_>yes, it only checks for programs, not scheme libraries
<ArneBab_>ah, yes, and latex and sqlite
<daviid>it's ok
<ArneBab_>(for these you’d have to check what tools exactly you need - tool == program you can call)
<daviid>also i shouldn't git common 'myself' should i [maybe i should]?
<daviid>s/git common/git clone common
<ArneBab_>also I added a basic NEWS file, an auto-generated ChangeLog and a basic README
<daviid>thought i had a README :)
<ArneBab_>I didn’t see it…
<daviid>how do you autogenerate the NEWS ?
<ArneBab_>I did not - I just took the last two releases from the website
<ArneBab_>where is your README?
<daviid>ok
<ArneBab_>I think a NEWS file is pretty neat: It summarizes the high-level changes with each version.
<daviid>no README [i thought...] and yes, a NEWS is good will had these, tx
<ArneBab_>(give hosting sites a few years and they’ll realize that their web interfaces should not only parse a README but also a NEWS file ☺
<ArneBab_>and bit by bit the gnu style autotools will seem more and more natural to people :) )
<daviid>ArneBab_: tx for the incentive, will had these files and play with make... i wonder what i should do about the 'common' dependency
<ArneBab_>daviid: here’s a new Makefile.am which clones common and then uses git archive to create a common directory: https://bpaste.net/show/e5b37e9b1aca
<ArneBab_>daviid: that should reduce the effort to create distribution tarballs
<daviid>ArneBab_: many thanks!
<daviid>sure
<ArneBab_>glad to ☺ (After going through cmake, scons and waf, I nowadays consider make distcheck to be the goldstandard for build tools - not from the standpoint of usability, but from essential features)
<ArneBab_>daviid: note that the current project does not have distcheck yet
<daviid>ok
<ArneBab_>I wish there were a simple guide for getting different types of projects ready for make distcheck. Maybe someday…
<ArneBab_>daviid: when using make dist, keep in mind that it uses the common repo within the kise repo, so update that to a supported version before creating the tarball.
<daviid>Ok! wrt distcheck, once i have the basics working, autogen.sh/configure/make/make check/make install/ install the doc, then i can copy the receipe from another repo...
<ArneBab_>I hope so :)
<daviid>in the configure.ac, how to ask guile >= 2.0.5 ?
<daviid>i can find that by myself, it's ok
<daviid>you did much already
<ArneBab_>maybe with something like this? test $(echo $(guile-2.0 --version | head -n 1 | sed "s/.* 2\\\\.//") '>' 0.5 | bc) -eq 1
<daviid>ArneBab_: will try
<ArneBab_>I don’t know a clean solution right away…
<ArneBab_>(but I’m sure there is one)
<ArneBab_>I need to get going, though
<ArneBab_>have a good night!
<daviid>ArneBab_: good night. many thanks.