IRC channel logs

<dsmith-work>mark_weaver: Cool thanks!

<wingo>happy new year mark_weaver :)

<mark_weaver>and to you, wingo! :)

<mark_weaver>rewriting goops in scheme, nice!

<mark_weaver>wingo: btw, your keynote at the Scheme Workshop was really great :)

<wingo>mark_weaver: thank you!

<cluck>mark_weaver: that's great! (afaik debian runs ok-ish emulated/chrooted on arm android machines) [and thanks for all your good work]

*davexunit pokes a bit at a static site generator concept

<davexunit>everyone has to write one, right?

<wingo>:)

<wingo>goops.c under 1500 lines, woo

<davexunit>wow, ~1300 fewer lines.

<dsmith-work>wingo: What brings this on?

<wingo>dsmith-work: a bug report from tupi

<davexunit>wingo: is this rewrite destined for master?

<wingo>davexunit: yep, for master

<wingo>if i could get goops.c down to 1200 or so i'd be happy

<wingo>anyway, for now wip-goops-refactor

<wingo>night

<davexunit>I think this was brought up some time ago, but I can't remember the outcome. is there a procedure that I can use to just drop into the interactive debugger?

<goglosh>uh guys

<goglosh>when I do (system "ls") the output gets printed, is there a way to catch it into a variable instead?

<davexunit>goglosh: use a pipe. see open-pipe and co. in the (ice-9 popen) module.

<goglosh>k, thanks

<goglosh>isn't there an easier way?

<dsmith-work>goglosh: That *is* the easy way.

<dsmith-work>;^)

<goglosh>awright then

<goglosh>nice meme

<dsmith-work>Anything that gathers up the output of a subprocess is using a pipe. Might be hidden, but it's still there.

<goglosh>true

<goglosh>uh... no read-line in guile?

<goglosh>nvm found it

<goglosh>uh... any ideas as to how I could catch a keystroke directly? without ncurses?

<zacts>I had a dream I installed replicant on a phone

<tadni>zacts: And wifi, 4g, gps, etc, etc, worked? :^P

<zacts>tadni: in my dream yes

<zacts>then I woke up and was disappointed I was only dreaming

<zacts>I'm considering getting a replicant compatible phone and laptop

<zacts>oops

<zacts>s/laptop/tablet/

*tadni is hoping to have a gluglug based libreboot box, by the time he hits his transfer school.

<zacts>that's my first purchase idea after a thinkpenguin usb wifi key

<goglosh>wow tadni is everywhere

<tadni>That'll probably be when I'm running the somefactor of Guix generated "GNU DIstro" based thereof full-time. :^P

<tadni>goglosh: If it's Lisp based and on Freenode, I'm probably at least lurking.

<goglosh>yeah I kinda realized already :P

<tadni>Guile is certainly up there with my most relevant interest in this area. Especially with projects like Guix & Sly.

<goglosh>so, Hy too?

<goglosh>it's lisp-related and on freenode :P

<tadni>goglosh: Well, I was being mostly hyperbolic. There are a pretty great number of Lisp channels on freenode. I'd say over 50.

<tadni>At least, 20.

<goglosh>yeah probably

<tadni>I have like 12 channels related directly to Lisp in my autojoin, atm.

<goglosh>but I did noticed your affection to lisp

<tadni>goglosh: It's the first proglang that really "clicked" with me and too, the community has been nothing but amazing to me.

<tadni>"Best of both worlds" kinda situation.

<goglosh>nice. I'm still trying to get comfortable with it

<goglosh>my only real issue is actually choosing a dialect to stick to

<tadni>goglosh: What's your goal(s) and/or general aspirations?

<goglosh>well, I'm not too sure, it's as vague as "master a powerful programming language"

<tadni>goglosh: Well, do you have any projects you really want to work on?

<goglosh>two.

<tadni>Whether you are starting them, or contributing*

<tadni>goglosh: Does Guile, or some other Scheme fit the needs for such a thing?

<goglosh>I'm actually debating myself over one right now

<goglosh>actually, yes

<tadni>goglosh: For one or both accounts?

<goglosh>guile fits the one I'm trying to start now pretty well

<goglosh>the other one I believe can be done with generic Scheme

<tadni>What's a "generic scheme"?

<davexunit>standard scheme? (r5rs, r6rs, etc.)

<goglosh>uyes

<goglosh>implementation independant.

<tadni>goglosh: It's not like Scheme is that standard atm, anyways...

<tadni>R7RS is working more so in that direction, from what I can tell.

<goglosh>yeah...

<goglosh>but yeah I'm still between guile&racket when it comes to scheme

<tadni>I mean, personally (as in within the frame of my interests and understanding of the various attributes), I see very little point of perusing a Scheme outside of Guile or Racket.

<tadni>Though, with Guile, it could be that I have a bit of a GNU "boner".

<goglosh>lol

<goglosh>that RMS is a real playboy I agree

<tadni>goglosh: http://rms.sexy :^P

<tadni>Racket is pretty much topdog in Scheme world -- Guile, is somewhere amongst the ranks of things like Chicken... probably, I don't know, that's where I've put it.

<goglosh>interesting

<tadni>I mean, again, I could be biased -- but I know typical guys not really involved in Lisp at all, who are into and really excited about Racket.

<tadni>We even got a "Saint Louis Racket" meetup this last year.

<goglosh>yeah, it's a big deal

<goglosh>that's why it attracts me somehow

<tadni>St.Louis is actually becoming a bit of a big functional programming to lisp, city, shockingly.

<tadni>With Strange Loop annually, and Racket Con last year.

<goglosh>nice

<goglosh>so it means lisp is coming back to life?

<goglosh>we're gonna get lisp macheens again this decade?

<goglosh>:D

<tadni>goglosh: I think that's a bit of a overreading. :^P

<tadni>LispMs will probably never come back, outside of maybe the hobbyist market.

<goglosh>daydreaming

<goglosh>probably. it doesn't really matter nowadays anyway

<tadni>People hate on Clojure, but I think it more than anything else has got people not part of the void of niche, looking back into this direction.

*tadni will still love an all FOSH/FOSS FPGA, that's gateware is programmable in some variant of Lisp.

<goglosh>fosh?

<goglosh>oh hardware

<tadni>I'm not betting the house on getting one, in the next 10 years though. Maybe when home-chip fabrication picks up.

<goglosh>you do any clojure man?

<goglosh>there's a picolisp chip seeking funds

<tadni>goglosh: I've fiddled, not really found a usecase for it. A very large subset of that community is the "webdev" scene, which I'm not real into.

<goglosh>clojurescript, right?

<tadni>goglosh: Yeah, I forgot what the "gotcha" was on the Picochip someone was telling me about. Something that makes it a non-actual Lisp M Arch.

<tadni>goglosh: Clojurescript namely now, but even for a long while on Clojure proper there was a big focus on Webdev from what I saw.

<goglosh>well, it's the commercial version of lisp

<goglosh>on the side of the 500-code-monkeys market

<goglosh>it's actually very much popular :/

*tadni is a bit interested in breaking down a few webdev libraries and seeing what would need to be done to implement something similar in Guile.

<tadni>We have somefactor of webserver, iirc.

<tadni>Yeah, https://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Web-Server.html

<goglosh>the good thing about guile is that it can interface with C, the bad thing about it is that it can interface with C

<tadni>Eh, interop is almost always neat.

<goglosh>of course it is. I just find C very cryptic

<tadni>goglosh: Age?

<goglosh>right now I'm fighting agains having to use C

<goglosh>23 why?

<tadni>goglosh: I've noticed it a lot, with people in our age range.

<tadni>That people take issue with C, and even tangentially similar variants like C++.

<goglosh>yeah seems like it

<goglosh>and I know C better than any other language, but since coming to lisp I feel the difference

<tadni>ACTION started programming with C++, because he conformed to the over cliche notion of "wanting to make videogames" at about 16 at that was what everyone was telling me initially for such aspirations. It was okay, but it didn't really click all that much -- then about 2/3rds though my introductory text, people in a gamedev irc channel was like "what are you doing?! Eh, C++?! You should learn Python" -- got maybe 1/4th through the then n

<goglosh>:P

<tadni>Kinda stayed stagnant for a few years, in between that time though, I switched to GNU+Linux that was a big plus -- I found Emacs randomly though, and feel in love.

<tadni>Was there for about a year, then heard whispers of GUilemacs and then eventually Guix and Sly, and I was hooked. :^)

<goglosh>:P feel like making a game in sly?

<tadni>Well, I'm making at least a clone of pong called "ping" that determines the speed of the ball based on the network ping of a given site or similar.

<goglosh>nice

<goglosh>I want to make a roguelike someday

<goglosh>maybe even a MUD

<goglosh>though it's not one of my main projects

<tadni>But very interested in Sly, and if it gets decent 3d support I've considered doing a puzzle game like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Toad:_Treasure_Tracker in it.

<goglosh>cute

<tadni>There's a lot of interesting stuff Sly could be used for.

<tadni>Implementing Screensavers, might be a good one.

<goglosh>I am more attracted to guile for it's OS-interaction capabilities

<tadni>Using it as somefactor of a graphic toolkit might be another*

<goglosh>so.. sly exists already?

<tadni>goglosh: Yeah, davexunit is working towards a formal 0.1 release.

<goglosh>well, it has a mascot now :P

<tadni>goglosh: If interested in the low-level stuff; Have you heard of the idea floating around for awhile now, that's basically you just implement a small C microkernel that is just big-enough to implement Guile and all the servers/subsystems are written in Guile? :^P

<goglosh>noo, that'd be pretty cool

<goglosh>much work too

<goglosh>though my other project is actually

<tadni>goglosh: It's probably not worth the effort at that point really, you might as well right a custom OS.

<goglosh>yeah

<tadni>But yeah, in theory it's pretty cool.

<goglosh>one idea is to make a guile-driven linux

<goglosh>you know, linux-from-scratch

<tadni>goglosh: You mean, a custom distro using primarily Guile using Linux as a kernel?

<goglosh>yes

<goglosh>that'd be, well, more useful than a guileOS

<tadni>goglosh: ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/guix/gnu-usb-install-0.8.x86_64-linux.xz ?

<goglosh>:P

<goglosh>ooh....

<tadni>Guile package manage, Guile system-init, probable Guile-Wm and Graphic Toolkit eventually, possible Guile-centered Emacs.

<tadni>Etc, etc.

<goglosh>that is fucking awesome

<goglosh>I.. I had searched for it, thought it didnt exist

<tadni>goglosh: It's only been installable for two releases now and not actively adevrsied, since it's in alpha.

<tadni>advertised*

<goglosh>oh now I see why

<tadni>It's usable, if you're software stack requirements are pretty airy.

<tadni>The only thing missing from my day2day is Stumpwm, and that's because I've been too lazy and somefactor of "busy" to figure out how to set up a CL based build-system for it.

<tadni>your*

<goglosh>stumpwm :L

<goglosh>that one is on my list

*tadni goes to check on guile-wm, while it's on his mind.

<tadni>Yeah, effectively dead. I need to contact MWitmer and see if he has any continued plans to work on this more or not.

<goglosh>you can always fork

<goglosh>:^)

<goglosh>anyway, I want your opinion on something

<tadni>goglosh: If I was to work on such a thing, it'd be rewritten as a wayland compositor probably.

<tadni>goglosh: Shoot.

<goglosh>for a text editing software... would it be safe to store the buffer as a char list in guile?

<tadni>goglosh: Oh, are you working on one?

<goglosh>yeah that's what I'm on right now

<goglosh>I'm not sure if the filebuffer should be a char list in guile or a C thing...

*tadni isn't sure if he's qualified to say. He can't see anything wrong with that atm, but too ... he's never really done anything that had any sort of graphical interface.

<goglosh>it's guile-ncurses

<goglosh>meh, I guess I try it out and if it turns out to be a bottleneck well...

<drdanmaku>goglosh: you may be interested in http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/02/18/gap-buffers-or-why-bother-with-1/

<drdanmaku>you could implement this sort of thing in guile

<tadni>Wow, just passed out for a few...

*tadni can't wait till he fixes this sleep schedule (hopefully in less than a week).

<goglosh>drdanmaku: I'll check it out

<goglosh>yeah it's the kind of stuff that scares me about editors

<goglosh>brb

<goglosh>ooh that gap buffer thing is great!

<goglosh>never before thought of that, have an internet man!

<wleslie>sneek: botsnack

<sneek>:)

<stis>sneek: later tell wingo has you seen my bug mail in guile-devel for guile-2.1 master

<sneek>Okay.

<wingo>meep

<sneek>Welcome back wingo, you have 1 message.

<sneek>wingo, stis says: has you seen my bug mail in guile-devel for guile-2.1 master

<paroneayea>wingo: btw I listened to both your "state of js implementations" and your scheme workshop 2014 talks

<paroneayea>thanks for making those available... they were both really interesting

*davexunit seconds that

<wingo>tx for kind words, you are welcome :)

IRC channel logs

2015-01-10.log