IRC channel logs

<mark_weaver>civodul: the fact that libguile-2.0-gdb.scm is a source file (in the repo) with the version number in it presents complications for merging between stable-2.0 and master. I wonder occurrences of 2.0 could be avoided in repo source ?

<mark_weaver>s/wonder/wonder if/

<wingo>might not be worth it if the file only changes once per major/minor version

<mark_weaver>I took care of it in the merge, but if changes are made to it in stable-2.0 then it will continue to present complications when merging.

<wingo>ah it's a bit more involved than that, i see

<mark_weaver>also libguile/Makefile.am contains several occurrences of 2.0 in it.

<mark_weaver>(relating to libguile-2.0-gdb.scm)

<wingo>easy to fix in the makefile at least

<mark_weaver>the makefile could include a rule to copy the source file (without version number) to the current name (with version number).

<mark_weaver>(maybe there's a better way, but that's one simple solution that comes to mind)

<mark_weaver>anyway, time for me to sleep. good night!

<zacts>gn

*mark_weaver --> zzz

<wingo>a8b80d6b29b33ea39c96e5e366a0365886b31dc8 seems to at least attempt to be parameterized by the version

<wingo>night :)

<civodul>mark_weaver: yeah i'd just rename it after the merge

<civodul>in practice libguile-2.0-gdb and libguile-2.2-gdb are likely to diverge anyway

<civodul>for instance they'd have different stack walking procedures

<taylanub>ArneBab_: ping! http://sprunge.us/FZOE

<wingo>being able to reliably get a backtrace for the current thread would be swell

<wingo>i.e. without needing to call into the inferior

<civodul>yep

<mark_weaver>I didn't modify libguile-2.2-gdb.scm at all, so I guess it's non-functional.

<wingo>probably, yes

<civodul>well the pretty-printing part should work, but not the rest

<mark_weaver>yeah, I got (system base types) working properly, I think.

<wingo>also slot 0 isn't always the procedure, in master -- you have to grovel elf/dwarf

<wingo>anyway.

<civodul>mark_weaver: indeed, thanks!

<mark_weaver>np!

<wingo>very excited about that stuff

<wingo>i wrote a pretty-printer for v8 using the guile buildings and it has already improved my life

<civodul>ah, neat!

<civodul>yeah Guile in GDB is very cool

<civodul>did you get your pretty-printer upstream?

<civodul>as a way to push Guile in new areas ;-)

<wingo>civodul: they want it upstream, yes!

<wingo>i have to change the license to something not GPL, it seems -- but that's fine

<wingo>the nice thing is that i didn't have to hard-code any of the tags

<wingo>since they are defined as static const int kFoo = 343;

<wingo>or as enumerated values

<wingo> http://wingolog.org/pub/d8-gdb.scm if you are interested

<civodul>hmm do they know GDB is GPL?

<wingo>yes they do

<wingo>but they don't distribute gdb

<wingo>so there's no issue in making this one file mit-licensed or whatever

<wingo>afaiu anyway

<civodul>yeah

<civodul>oh so it looks up the tag values

<civodul>that's convenient, indeed

<wingo>yep -- especially given that the tagging is different between 64-bit and 32-bit targets...

<wingo>btw they include simulators for non-ia32, non-x64 arches

<wingo>so there is a simulator in the tree for arm, arm64, mips, etc

<civodul>nice

<wingo>and they are able to actually build and run an arm jit compiler on a normal desktop

<wingo>the C++ code runs "natively"

<wingo>and the jit code runs in the simulator

<civodul>wow, fancy stuff!

<wingo>only a couple of pieces that have to be aware of the difference between the two

<wingo>yeah, neat hack :)

<civodul>a good idea given that most hackers probably have an x86_64 box

<wingo>yep

<wingo>so by default typing "make" builds ia32, x64, and arm targets in both release and debug modes

<wingo>and you can "make check" too

<wingo>which is super-useful...

<wingo>firefox imported the v8 simulators recently and are using it in a similar way

<wingo>simulator for arm here: http://code.google.com/p/v8/source/browse/branches/bleeding_edge/src/arm/simulator-arm.cc

<wingo>just a short library

<wingo>well, relatively short anyway ;)

<civodul>yes, surprsingly short

<wingo>they only have to support the instructions they emit

<civodul>right

<civodul>gdb has simulators for non-intel arches, but it probably can't be embedded this easily

<nalaginrut> http://nalaginrut.com/archives/2014/04/25/oba-pipeline-style%21

<civodul>nalaginrut: couldn't it just use 'compose' no? :-)

<nalaginrut>civodul: oh, I don't know compose

<nalaginrut>any hint?

<zacts>civodul: I'm trying to combine these two ideas - http://projects.csail.mit.edu/wiki/pub/JoeNear/FernMonad/frons.pdf and http://leonerds-code.blogspot.com/ <- the event reflexive stuff

<civodul>ferns look interesting

<zacts>have you heard of them before?

<civodul>no

*wingo neither

<nalaginrut>oh, yes, it looks cool

<nalaginrut>yet a new term for me

<zacts>I'm hoping you guys can eventually help me to more fully understand this idea. whenever you have time. I have a somewhat fuzzy idea of the implementation details of it now, but I see how it can be a useful abstraction.

<zacts>mainly I would like to see a more practical application of frons.. I think it could lead to some elegant code for certain situations. the example given by steele was the time-sharing system.

<zacts>anyway, laters..

<ijp>civodul: the main problem with compose is that it is in the wrong direction

<ijp>(compose number->string 1+ string->number) ; wat

<ijp>(revcompose string->number 1+ number->string) ; much better

<ijp>all the arrows point in the right direction

<civodul>well, yeah

<ijp> https://github.com/ijp/ijputils/blob/master/clojure.sls#L53

<civodul>that's an old convention i think

<ijp>civodul: yeah, maths people do it this way

<ijp>the (f ⎄ g) x = f (g x) way, that is

<taylanub>"f o g" notation always confused me in high-school and I asked myself what was wrong with f(g(x)) instead of "f o g (x)"

<ijp>hmm, apparently you use ∘ RING OPERATOR, not ⎄ COMPOSITION SYMBOL

<civodul>heh

<ijp>taylanub: well, there is little advantage if you are immediately applying

<ijp>other than parens

<ijp>IIRC, category theorists often do (f ; g) rather than (g ∘ f)

<taylanub>by the way any idea on how to fix http://sprunge.us/MDdf after pulling the recent changes on master and recompiling ? (I'd like to avoid `make clean' which will make .go compilation take hours.)

<nalaginrut>taylanub: after one hour trying for fixing it, I chose to clean then compile

<nalaginrut>these days the time is very tight for me...

<civodul>ijp: Haskell does f . g

<civodul>like in maths

<wingo>taylanub: you need to make clean

<taylanub>oh well, OK

<wingo>bytecode versions changed, there is no help

<taylanub>ah, that's understandable

<nalaginrut>alright

<zacts> http://www.cs.indiana.edu/pub/techreports/TR72.pdf

<zacts>mark_weaver: ^ I forgot, this is an application of this idea

<taylanub>wow, R7RS-small library syntax lets me cleanly do something Guile modules don't, who would've thought :P (Via `include-library-declarations' I can have the exports of each library component in a separate file; then I can use a wrapper library that imports the standard components and re-exports all their exports by including all their export files)

<ijp>why would you have exports in a separate file?

<taylanub>ijp: the wrapper uses `include-library-declarations' on each of the export files to cleanly re-export everything the real owner of that export file exports

<ijp>that's not an answer

<taylanub>then I either fail to explain, or to understand your question

<ijp>taylanub: what is the advantage of listing the exports in a separate file, rather than having a form that just does "reexport-all-from-module"

<ijp>which I can write in guile, no problem

<taylanub>ijp: right, it's just not standard

<ijp>and this standard solution is stupid

<ijp>it's the exceptions fiasco all over again

<wingo>i can't think about r7rs without grumbling

<leo2007>taylanub: which scheme implementation?

<ijp>leo2007: probably only chibi

<taylanub>leo2007: ?

<leo2007>I meant which scheme implemented that feature?

<leo2007>ijp: thanks

<taylanub>Uh, I thought Guile implements all the significant parts of R7RS-small now but I don't see define-library

<nalaginrut>civodul: I updated the post to introduce `compose', well it's cool to have it in Guile ;-)

<civodul>Guile is cool!

<haxie>so, I'm trying to use a function defined in a C program in guile, but I'm getting an error that I've been trying to fix quit some time

<haxie> http://pastebin.com/ET1kHzQe

<haxie>code

<haxie>and error:

<haxie>oh, that code is wrong

<haxie>hold on

<haxie> http://pastebin.com/2RtwfwP6

<haxie>error: no matching function for call to 'scm_c_define_gsubr'

<haxie> note: candidate function not viable: no known conversion from 'SCM (SCM, SCM)' to 'scm_t_subr' (aka 'void *') for 5th argument

<haxie>SCM_API SCM scm_c_define_gsubr (const char *name,

<haxie>sorry if the answer is ridiculously simple :/ but I've been at it for a while

<haxie>and hello, I'm a new lisper, excited to meet everyone in the channel :)

<atheia>Welcome haxie, I'm afraid I can't help you with your problem, but always nice to have new people in the channel :-)

<haxie>atheia: no worries, thanks for the welcome!

<civodul>haxie: i think may need to explicitly cast the 5th argument to (scm_t_subr)

<haxie>civodul: will give that a try

<haxie>civodul: that was it haha

<haxie>thanks!

<haxie>oh wait

<haxie>maybe not

<haxie>okay, definitely working... you were right, had to cast, thanks!

<civodul>cool

<mark_weaver>taylanub: the 'r7rs-wip' branch of guile (in the git repo) implements almost all of R7RS-small.

<mark_weaver>ijp: IMO, 'reexport-all-from-module' is worse than 'include-library-declarations', because (1) it will export things like internal toplevel bindings created by 'define-record-type', (2) once you've used 'reexport-all-from-module' there's no way to make an internal helper if you later want that.

<mark_weaver>That said, I'm not a fan of 'include-library-declarations', though doesn't seem horrible to me either.

<mark_weaver>taylanub: the main missing bit you are likely to notice missing from R7RS-small is that imports like (srfi 1) don't yet work.

<mark_weaver>(you have to import (srfi :1) or (srfi srfi-1) instead

<mark_weaver>)

<taylanub>ok, thanks for the notice. couldn't one make a re-export-all that only re-exports explicitly exported bindings ?

<mark_weaver>oh, I see. yeah, I guess maybe that's what ijp meant.

<ijp>mark_weaver: you can get the exports from the module

<mark_weaver>*nod* sorry, I misunderstood.

<mark_weaver>wingo: d8-gdb.scm looks really nice!

***linas__ is now known as linas

<dsmith-work>Happy Friday, Guilers!!

<civodul>yay, happy Friday!

<ijp>happy 25th of april

<ijp>or, happy national zucchini bread day

<ijp> http://games.usvsth3m.com/what-ridiculous-food-day-is-your-birthday/

<dsmith-work>sneek: botsnack

<sneek>:)

<dsmith-work>sneek: version

<sneek>Sneeky bot running on Guile version 2.0.11 using bobot++ 2.3.0-darcs

<dsmith-work>!uname

<sneek>Linux beaglebone 3.8.13-bone47 #1 SMP Fri Apr 11 01:36:09 UTC 2014 armv7l GNU/Linux

<davexunit>ooh running on a beaglebone

<davexunit>neat

<dsmith-work>Yes

<dsmith-work>sneek: seen davexunit

<sneek>davexunit was here Apr 25 at 03:12 pm UTC, saying: neat.

<dsmith-work>sneek: logs?

<sneek>Someone once said logs is https://gnunet.org/bot/log/guile/

<mark_weaver>sneek: it's good to have you back! you've been solely missed.

<mark_weaver>sneek: botsnack

<sneek>:)

<mark_weaver>sneek: libgc?

<sneek>Last time I checked libgc is http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Hans_Boehm/gc/gc_source/gc-7.2d.tar.gz

<mark_weaver>sneek: forget libgc

<sneek>Okay.

<mark_weaver>sneek: libgc is http://www.hboehm.info/gc/

<sneek>Understood.

*sneek bows

<linas>so I've got a stupid closure question ...

<linas>I want something like the following to work ,,, but it doesn't ....

<linas>(define (make-env as)

<linas> (let ((gas as))

<linas> (lambda (exp) (eval exp (interaction-environment)))))

<linas>(define ev (make-env 42))

<linas>(ev '(display gas))

<linas>which bombs with Unbound variable: gas

<linas>how do I get eval to evaluate within the scope of the closure?

<davexunit>I'm not sure, linas. why do you want to do this in the first place?

<davexunit>seems like a bad idea.

<linas>well, I'm using guile to wrap some C routines ... and want to have those C routines see a local environment

<stis>linas > http://www.gnu.org/software/guile/manual/html_node/Local-Evaluation.html#Local-Evaluation

<stis>using this shuld be the very last thing to try though

<linas>ah yes, I think that might be it ... I thought I'd seen that efore but couldn't find it

<linas>thanks stis

<taylanub>linas: Is this what you wanted ? http://sprunge.us/cXCZ I believe this is a less "dirty" way of doing what you want, since it doesn't involve messing with local static environments imperatively (which I always thought ought to be forbidden, I'm surprised that `local-eval' exists at all in Guile (rather, is possible with psyntax) and wonder about implications of its existence...)

<ijp>taylanub: local-eval exists because lilypond requires the behaviour

<taylanub>ijp: but psyntax wasn't modified by us just to support that, was it ?

<ijp>yes

<taylanub>Well anyway, I'd need to look more into this `local-eval' thing before I can say anything good or bad about it, it just "intuitively" seems (very) wrong but that's all I can say :P

<linas>local-eval seems to be exactly what I wanted ...

<linas>taylanub your pastebin might work for me as well ...

<linas>let me try ...

<linas>mostly, I'll have to be able to create several environments, and have them work 'right' in a threa-safe way ...

<taylanub>Let's see the difference between the ,optimize outputs of (define (foo) (let ((x 5)) x)) and (define (foo) (let ((x 5)) (the-environment) x)) : http://sprunge.us/ZBCj

<taylanub>*Something* is wrong there but I can't quite tell!

<linas>taylanub, yes, that works for me too ..

<taylanub>(Note that the return-value of (the-environment) is not used, but apparently it doesn't get optimized out anyway; that may or may not be because of difficulties in proving it to be side-effect free.)

<linas>taylanub module-define! seems to be what I was looking for .. but it is not documented publicly ... is that an issue?

<taylanub>linas: it's in (info "(guile) Module System Reflection")

<linas>dooh, I see it in the form of scm_c_module_define in Accessing-Modules-from-C.html

<linas>and its deep in my C code where I have to use it, so that seems to be what I needed, again, many thanks.

<developernotes>I'm trying to use drop-right from sfri-1, but when I try to include a use-modules, I get the following error: http://pastie.org/9112703

<developernotes>Does that mean it is either not implemented, and/or not available?

<taylanub>developernotes: it's "srfi", not "sfri" :)

<taylanub>Scheme Request For Implementations

<developernotes>taylanub well, hey - you're right - good catch - thanks!

<daviid>hello guilers, the clutter dvelopper is very friendly, really a nice guy: he helps me in a very efficient way, even though i'm asking quizz about deprecated in 1.10, how to do things in 1.12 [the stable is 1.18 for who would not know...]

<dsmith-work>bipt: Heya. Congrats on another GSoC

<daviid>wingo: hello. I have a serious bug trying to ,use (gnome gw gdk): i've never used it before, but clutter 1.12 requires it [clutter-texture-* deprecated and ClutterImage only accept gdk-pixbuf data...]. I'd like to see if you also have the problem? if you could just try to ,use (gnome gw gdk) and let me know... here is the message I get: guile: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0.

<daviid>I wonder if it could be because I have multiple displays [an external monitor is connected to my laptop atm...]

<daviid>brb

<dsmith-work>daviid: Maybe a permissions/access rights thing?

<dsmith-work>daviid: As in "xhosts +"

<daviid>dsmith-work: tx. I just tried but it did not solve the problem. it actually hangs in: ... newer then ... compile /opt/share/guile-gnome-2/gnome/gw/gdk.scm

<daviid>ok, don't why (just reproduced some steps manually that were in a clutter example module) but it did compiled it now, wierd, I wonder what caused the bug earlier

<daviid>s/did compiled/did compile/

<Fulax>does anyone know about a libnl (netlink(7)) guile interface? or similar work

<civodul>Fulax: not really, but that seems like a good job for the FFI :-)

<civodul>definitely if you limit yourself to glibc (+ Linux)

<Fulax>civodul: it's on my tocheck list for networking support in dmd

<Fulax>right, we would have to define a bare minimal interface for dmd needs in networking configuration

<civodul>ok, that's what i thought ;-)

IRC channel logs

2014-04-25.log