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2013-12-27.log

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<nalaginrut>morning guilers~
*nalaginrut did sql-injection in Artanis brand new ORM sucessfully, seems some filters/validators are needed...
<zacts>nalaginrut: is that a (scheme) web server?
<nalaginrut>zacts: a web framework plus a server
<zacts>oh cool, I'll have to look more into it eventually
<nalaginrut>zacts: web-artanis.com
<nalaginrut>no release yet
<nalaginrut>but you may play it according to examples
<nalaginrut>and you have to read README for docs, since I don't have time to write manual at present
<zacts>that's cool
<nalaginrut>thx ;-P
<zacts>are you from china?
<nalaginrut>yes
<nalaginrut>how do you know?
<zacts>cool. I'm from the U.S., I noticed your homepage had chinese on it.
<b4283>shenchen
<nalaginrut>yes, but it'll be expired in 2014 Jan 20
<nalaginrut>I mean the host
<nalaginrut>and I bought new VPS
<nalaginrut>so I'll build a new personal site
<nalaginrut>b4283: ;-)
<nalaginrut>building with Artanis
<zacts>cool, I would like to possibly contribute to Artanis once I really learn some (scheme)
*nalaginrut think he should write English articles
<nalaginrut>zacts: welcome!
<zacts>I'm currently reading 'Scheme and the Art of Programming'
<nalaginrut>oh, sounds a neat book
<zacts>it's nice
<nalaginrut>is there any pdf could be downloaded? I can't buy real books from amazon
<zacts>not yet, but the author is trying to make a free online version.
<zacts>I should send him an email
<nalaginrut>yeah~that's good
<zacts>(I don't personally know him, but yeah)
<zacts>a guy on #scheme contacted him
<nalaginrut>this book has little information on google
<nalaginrut>free online version is cool
<zacts>here is the author's homepage http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~dfried/
<zacts>it has a great section on continuations
<nalaginrut>hah, his other books seems more famous than this book
<zacts>yes, indeed
<zacts>here are some lecture notes on a class that used this book: http://www.cs.unm.edu/~joel/cs257/cs257.html
<zacts>nalaginrut: ^
<nalaginrut>yeah~thank
<nalaginrut>I have to go for lunch, see you later
<dje42>Now that my gdb+guile patch is at a point where I can submit it (and have), I have a few wishlist items for Guile.
<dje42>[Some may even be in git HEAD ... I haven't looked too deeply, I've mostly been using 2.0.9.]
<dje42>Is it possible to export some form of scm_i_with_continuation_barrier? I worked around its absence, but IWBN.
<dje42>scm_new_port_table_entry seems to be thread-safe now.
***sneek_ is now known as sneek
<adhoc>zacts: that course uses DrScheme or MzScheme, so is Guile a suitable/compatible alternative?
<nalaginrut>adhoc: I think Racket(was DrScheme) is not Scheme anymore, although it has many cool features
<eg0>rackets a pain in the ass
<nalaginrut>I was painful when I try to port a thing from Racket to Scheme
<eg0>nalaginrut is rights, its only barely a scheme
<nalaginrut>anyway, if you really want to try Scheme, don't consider Racket, but if you want to new cool language, Racket maybe a cool choice
<adhoc>i have tinkered with racket
<b4283>doens't standardized scheme make the pharse "scheme dialect" meaningless?
<b4283>racket may be derived from scheme, but shalln't we call it an lisp dialect
<adhoc>ok
<nalaginrut>well, the course's reading list includes GEB, which became the holy idiom on my bookshelf as well as TAOCP ;-P
*nalaginrut should break the idiom to hack it insight...
<adhoc>are there any modern scheme books suitable to learn to work with guile ?
<nalaginrut>adhoc: not yet
<nalaginrut>but it's important to learn standard Scheme first
*nalaginrut think it's fine to learn these books with Guile
<adhoc>so the little schemer would be a good introduction ?
<nalaginrut>I saw many guys learn the book with Guile, although the book suggest MzScheme
<adhoc>ok
<nalaginrut>adhoc: you have to find the proper introduction book for yourself
<nalaginrut>so read it
<adhoc>i've read the first quarter of Land of Lisp
<nalaginrut>hmm..that's interest book
<b4283>just read some standard scheme tutorial and plunge in with Guile Reference
<nalaginrut>if possible, we should have a similar book for Guile, I know there's a similar book for Racket
<b4283>if you grasp the idea of scheme, you will be referring the Guile Reference most of the time
<nalaginrut>b4283: yeah, that's my way too ;-D
<nalaginrut>Guile manual is cool
<nalaginrut>now that we have guile-2d, maybe a game book for Guile hmm...
<b4283>actually i'd recommend not looking for any document that has a LISP label on it
<b4283>chances are you are not learning scheme, but CLISP or plain old LISP
<b4283>of which the program constructs are very different
<nalaginrut>nods
<adhoc>b4283: yes, i've been using clisp a bit too
<b4283>ah, an veteran, then i'm in no position of giving advice :D
<adhoc>i'm hardly a veteran, i only use it as a calculator at the moment
<adhoc>pretty much all i used python for before =P
<nalaginrut>just like I use Python for it now...
<adhoc>python has a REPL
<nalaginrut>yes, it's my calculator ;-)
<b4283>adhoc: i've looked at a sample of Land of Lisp and it looks like CLISP
<b4283>or emacs lisp
<adhoc>i used to maintain a mailman instance, but i have hardly touched it in years
<adhoc>b4283: yeah
<zacts>afaik, racket works for SICP. It does have an R5RS mode.
<zacts>but, it also provides the picture language for SICP
<mark_weaver>is it necessary to steer people away from Guile and toward Racket on #guile ?
<zacts>mark_weaver: sorry, that wasn't my intent. I was just trying to provide information.
<zacts>Land of Lisp is common lisp
<zacts>I own the book
<davexunit>I use Guile exclusively for SICP exercises with no issues.
<sneek>davexunit, you have 1 message.
<sneek>davexunit, dsmith says: Have you been able to use guile-wm with a different $DISPLAY, like :1 ?
<davexunit>dsmith: I haven't tried.
<davexunit>I've found a bug in guile-wm but I can't replicate it or fix it. :(
<davexunit>somehow the root keymap prefix (C-t) stops working and at that point I have to restart guile-wm.
<dsmith>davexunit, For me, when I try to use DISPLAY=:1, the assq-ref's in my-setup-request in xcb/xml/auth.scm are returning #f.
<davexunit>hmm.
<davexunit>I don't know much about how X works, which is why I've failed to solve my own problems.
<dsmith>Yeah, this is X auth stuff, which I know nothing about.
<davexunit>I tried to port stumpwm's send-fake-key (I think) function
<davexunit>so that when you press C-t t it sends C-t to the focused window.
<davexunit>couldn't figure it out.
<davexunit>it's really hard to inspect guile-xcb
<davexunit>no docstrings on procedures so I couldn't figure out the correct way to invoke make-key-press-event.
<dsmith>Took me forever to build xproto too. (git master) I needed to make it first and then with nothing else running. Took up all my swap space.
<davexunit>I don't recall having that problem.
<davexunit>but maybe I just didn't notice :)
<dsmith>I'm trying to run it with Xnest which is display :1
<davexunit>ah I see. I've just been living in it.
<dje42>I thought scm_ptobs was deprecated in 2.2, but it's actually gone in 2.1 (as in no longer exported).
<dje42>Is there a way to do the equivalent of what I'm doing here: https://github.com/xdje42/gdb/blob/gg-pass1/gdb/guile/scm-ports.c#L309
<dje42>[basically make a copy of an fport and replace a few "methods"]
<mark_weaver>dje42: the problem with allowing people to do this is that it greatly constrains our ability to change the way file ports work.
<mark_weaver>dje42: can you use a custom port instead?
<dje42>yeah
<dje42>I mean I understand not wanting to contrain future abilities.
<mark_weaver>what does that port type actually do?
<dje42>I want to connect guile's input/output/error ports to gdb's input/output/error ports.
<dje42>I certainly could write more code instead of borrowing it :-) [and I mean that non-sarcastically!]
<dje42>ioscm_subclass_fport is called here: https://github.com/xdje42/gdb/blob/gg-pass1/gdb/guile/scm-ports.c#L1205
<mark_weaver>you might want to use an R6RS custom binary port for this.
<mark_weaver>well, 'make-custom-binary-input-port' and 'make-custom-binary-output-port'.
<mark_weaver>(assuming that the gdb I/O interfaces you're wrapping over are byte streams)
<dje42>righto.
<dje42>One thing I was going for is that isatty would work as expected. I remember having problems early on.
<dje42>Anyways, gotta run. Thanks for the suggestions!
<mark_weaver>hmm.
<mark_weaver>isatty? will always return #f for ports that aren't Guile file ports. *grump*
<mark_weaver>okay, ttyl!