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2013-12-19.log

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<ArneBab>some scripts in the 2.0.9 release contain /nix/store/... in the she-bang line. is that fixed? Reference: http://irrealblog.blogspot.de/2011/03/building-guile-2.html?showComment=1377132817599#c8607375946805159537 and ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/guile/guile-2.0.9.tar.gz → build-aux/install-sh
*ArneBab just saw this by chance and decided to pass it on
<mark_weaver>yeah, that was discovered shortly after release.
<ArneBab>wouldn’t this merit doing a bugfix release?
<mark_weaver>it was a bug in the autotools in Guix; fixed now.
<mark_weaver>I'm planning to put together in 2.0.10 release in the next couple of weeks.
<mark_weaver>s/in 2/a 2/
<ArneBab>it’s one of those papercuts which keep people from using a release (and which should be easy to fix - if need be with manual tweaking of the release)…
<ArneBab>sounds good!
<ArneBab>(or is the release process more complex?)
<mark_weaver>it doesn't affect normal GNU/Linux as I recall. only unusual systems like mingw.
<ArneBab>it hit someone on MacOSX
<mark_weaver>oaky
<ArneBab>(I’ve been looking around for ways to get guile on non-GNU/Linux systems, so I could use guile to write programs which most of my friends can actually use…)
<mark_weaver>yeah, that would be great!
<mark_weaver>for MacOS X, there's homebrew and some others, which include recent Guile.
<ArneBab>what I really miss is a way to just bundle guile in an app or exe: that’s how OSX/W32 people expect their programs.
<mark_weaver>yes, I agree that would be very helpful.
<mark_weaver>one of the missing pieces is to make guile relocatable in the filesystem. right now, we assume that the installation directory is a compile-time constant.
<mark_weaver>although in practice I suspect it could be made to work as-is by setting the right environment variables, similar to what meta/uninstalled-env does.
<ArneBab>(and then likely applying tons of polish…)
<ArneBab>(I just realized that my comment could be taken as slander: it is not meant to be that. I just hit a few problems when I tried to get some other programs of mine to work on non-GNU systems, and that ends in lots of small stuff)
<mark_weaver>ArneBab: no, not at all. I agree that we should make it easier to create cross-platform programs using Guile.
<nalaginrut>morning guilers~
<nalaginrut>mark_weaver: alas~each time when I see the long long exported list in Guile core, I feel the headache is coming...
<davexunit>case uses eqv? to test KEY. this doesn't work well if your key is a symbol: (case 'a (('a) 5))
<davexunit>is it by design that symbols shouldn't be used in a case form?
<nalaginrut>I think case should use symbols, I don't use ('a) but (a)
<nalaginrut>IIRC string as well
<davexunit>nalaginrut: a-ha, thank you.
<davexunit>I've gotta go, though. bye!
<mark_weaver>sneek: seen ijp?
<sneek>ijp was here Dec 12 at 07:47 pm UTC, saying: you mean the shivers essay.
<mark_weaver>nalaginrut: thanks for helping davexunit with 'case'. you can't use case to compare against strings though, because 'eqv?' can't be used to compare strings. (for any mutable objects, 'eqv?' compares _identity_, not by contents)
<mark_weaver>to dispatch based on the contents of compound objects, use 'match' instead.
<nalaginrut>oops, thanks for remind me ;-P
<civodul>Hello Guilers!
<nalaginrut>heya
***haroldwu is now known as haroldwu_afk
<taylanub><davexunit> case uses eqv? to test KEY. this doesn't work well if your key is a symbol: (case 'a (('a) 5))
<taylanub>I really dislike it how 'foo -> (quote foo) kind of messes up in situations like this, having somewhat unintuitive behavior.
<taylanub>(In this case due to being quoted itself, resulting in the literal list (quote foo).)
<taylanub>Another example is using it in a `syntax-rules' template and expecting it to match a literal, though perhaps that implies a more general misunderstanding of `sytnax-rules' templates.
<civodul>taylanub: (ice-9 match) gets it right
<taylanub>scheme@(guile-user)> (match '(foo bar baz) ((test *** 'baz) test))
<taylanub>$16 = (foo) ;is this a bug? (tested on 2.0.9.20-10454 and 2.0.9.97-b1fe)
<civodul>hmm, *** is for trees, right?
<civodul>"A pattern of the form @scheme{(x *** y)} represents the subpattern @var{y} located somewhere in a tree where the path from the current object to @var{y} can be seen as a list of the form @scheme{(x ...)}."
<taylanub>Yeah, Info manual says it "binds `identifier' to the path leading to the object that matches `pat'" .. it's not clear what this "path" is but intuitively I'd expect it to be (foo bar) in my example.
<civodul>(match '(a (b (c))) ((path *** ('c)) path))
<civodul>=> (a b)
<civodul>so i think the "path" is the list of ancestors in the tree
<civodul>(match '(a x y z (b (c))) ((path *** ('c)) path))
<civodul>=> (a b)
<taylanub>Hrm, weird. It kind of operates on trees represented by lists instead of cons-cell (binary) trees ?
<taylanub>And the "path" has the leftmost node at every level. (Not sure about the correct terminology here.)
<taylanub>(Huh, I just realized that sexpr based trees where nodes are branches XOR leaves is a special-case of trees in general, where nodes all have a value AND zero or more children...)
<taylanub>TIL (* 2 (+ 3 4)) can as well be viewed as https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/S-expression_tree.svg I suppose that's how `***' works, then.
<bubble>I posted the meta-gc to the list, I have to work some more and on other things later on
<sneek>Welcome back bubble, you have 2 messages.
<sneek>bubble, ArneBab_ says: emacs -Q is really fast: It???s a bare bones emacs. emacs --no-site-file only loads your customizations, not the system ones. Also there???s the emacs deamon (to have a persistent emacs session you simply log in to again). I generally have alias e='emacsclient -c' ; alias ee='emacs -Q -nw' (the latter for quickly editing config files)
<sneek>bubble, ArneBab_ says: emacs -Q is really fast: It???s a bare bones emacs. emacs --no-site-file only loads your customizations, not the system ones. Also there???s the emacs deamon (to have a persistent emacs session you simply log in to again). I generally have alias e='emacsclient -c' ; alias ee='emacs -Q -nw' (the latter for quickly editing config files)
<bubble>I'm stuck on the filling of memory chunks now
*bubble is going to work on the meta system
<bubble>an example is to use a dispatcher for 'cons as a keyword in scheme actors
<bubble>which initiates a memory fill
<bubble>It's in
<bubble>See meta.scm in the repo
<bubble>I have to go offline for while
***goto is now known as anderson