***fangism is now known as fangism-ctrl-Z
***sneek_ is now known as sneek
*nalaginrut spend 10x hack power from now on... <b4283>nalaginrut: the numbers of shanghai is crazy ***haroldwu is now known as haroldwu_away
<civodul>mark_weaver: interesting bug that you found ***mario-go` is now known as mario-goulart
***sneek_ is now known as sneek
*dsmith-work will be in Irvine CA all next week <stis>tjenixen, or tjena, just an ordinary 'hi' in swedisch slang. ***sethalve_ is now known as sethalves
<hiawatha>Can guile be used with a web framework or for web dev ? <mark_weaver>there's not yet anything as full-featured as you'll find elsewhere, though. <ijp>you could do a lot worse <mark_weaver>hiawatha: have you done any programming before at all? <hiawatha>I used Turbo C++ back then as a compiler <mark_weaver>C++ is probably the worst possible language to start out with. <hiawatha>The best program I made was a program that used a local lang fonts in it and printed results also saved them in a file for us <hiawatha>ya but I didn't know what 2 do .. and everyone said C/c++ r the only lang. <hiawatha>I dind't have internet back then .. NO did i know what unix/linux/bsd was <ijp>simpler times, when men were men and wrote their own device drivers <hiawatha>Also my school has only two books .. Let us C and Let us C++ <hiawatha>but now i want to host simple programs on my own webserver <hiawatha>I was a computer buff back then now i m a lawyer though <ijp>my first programming language was one of those crappy basics for a microcontroller with a dozen registers worth of memory <ijp>writable memory that is, obviously there was more for the program <davexunit>my first programming language was microsoft quickbasic. <ijp>I suppose there was that one time I used logo when I was 7 <hiawatha>what do you guys suggest for a new bie who is higly interest in web programming like host his regular program online.. or on his own server .. <mark_weaver>hiawatha: well, apart from web programming, it would be good to learn the basics of scheme programming. <ijp>mark_weaver: come on, you should be able to one up me :) <davexunit>hiawatha: do you want to use a scheme/lisp specifically? <davexunit>you'll find a lot of resources for web programming using python and ruby. <davexunit>if you're just looking to make a web application regardless of language. <mark_weaver>hiawatha: I can think of a couple of books that would be good. One option is The Little Schemer, and its sequel The Seasoned Schemer. <hiawatha>davexunit, no i don't want to use scheme/lisp if no easy web dev options are available .. i came here cuz i love how GNU changed the world.. :) <ijp>you could go with racket, their web framework is relatively comprehensive, if not exactly conventional <hiawatha>Python and ruby .. ya but I would go with Perl + some framework instead as I can't config other's framework on my webserver .. they don't work <davexunit>hiawatha: while I do urge you to spend some time learning Scheme, and Guile in particular, ruby has the popular frameworks Rails and Sinatra, and python has Django and Flask <ijp>I have a few rules. no perl. no php. no shell scripts longer than a screenful. <ijp>I'd say no shell altogether, but sometimes you just want to set a couple of environment variables <mark_weaver>it's very good for simple text processing tasks, but it's a very poorly designed language and doesn't fare well when you start to do more complex things with it. <davexunit>as an intern at an ISP, I had to maintain a Perl web application that was used for managing all of the company's customers. <davexunit>I learned enough Perl to get by and have since forgotten it entirely. <mark_weaver>where is wingo's video presentation where he creates a little web application in a few minutes? <ijp>I think it was called bitter <mark_weaver>right, and it seems to be impervious to my attempts to find it using search engines :-( <hiawatha>perl/python/php/ruby all same for newbie <mark_weaver>hiawatha: in my opinion (and also in RMS's opinion for what it's worth) Scheme (and Lisp) are much more powerful and flexible than Perl/Python/PHP/Ruby. However, it is not nearly as popular, so the community around it is much smaller, and web frameworks for Scheme are less comprehensive. So that's your tradeoff. <hiawatha>mark_weaver, I would only know when I try .. <mark_weaver>Guile is based on Scheme, which is an offshoot of Lisp. <mark_weaver>hiawatha: I'm not sure I understand your last few messages. <mark_weaver>If you want to go the Racket route, then "How to Design Programs" is a good starting point for learning to program in Scheme. <mark_weaver>If you want to use Guile, then I'd probably recommend The Little Schemer and The Seasoned Schemer to teach you the basics of programming in Scheme, and I think you'll find that we here on #guile are glad to answer your questions when we're around :) <davexunit>I need to finish the little schemer, I got about halfway through before I took a long break. *dsmith-work 's first bit of code was in machine code (not asm!) on a ibm 360. <jao>dsmith-work, you're a REAL programmer... kids these days! <davexunit>>tfw you never wrote machine code and barely any asm <dsmith-work>Almost got a steak dinner for being the first one to get it right, but I had a bit flipped and my name came out at smich instead of smith. ***fangism-ctrl-Z is now known as fangism
<ijp>davexunit: I had to do direct machine code exactly once as part of a "programming for EE students" course <ijp>but unless someone started off toggling switches, I think dsmith-work wins <ijp>I wouldn't put it past wingo <dsmith-work>ijp: This machine didn't have toggles. It had dials with hex numbers. One dial for each nybble. <dsmith-work>A model 30. The model 50 had a toggle for each bit..