IRC channel logs

<mark_weaver>but actually, if you use 'open-input-pipe' or 'open-pipe*', I don't see why you should have to fork yourself. the pipe procedures take care of that for you.

<bananagram>I have primitive-fork but not open-input-pipe etc

<bananagram>and I don't know C fork

<mark_weaver>e.g. 'open-input-pipe' makes the pipe, forks off a new process, and then runs the command you specified within that subprocess.

<dsmith-work>bananagram: Do you mean your platform doesn't have fork, and so the pipe stuff is unimplemented?

<bananagram>dsmith-work: yes

<bananagram>is it a CPU thing or OS thing, or do I need to compile it with fork?

<dsmith-work>What platform?

<bananagram>arch, 32-bit, with a little pentium

<dsmith-work>OS.

<bananagram>arch linux

<dsmith-work>Hs fork

<dsmith-work>Has

<bananagram>but my guile doesn't have it

<dsmith-work>Did you compile it yourself?

<bananagram>no

<dsmith-work>Did you include the popen module?

<dsmith-work>(use-modules (ice-9 popen))

<bananagram>yes, it doesn't exist

<bananagram>wait

<bananagram>I was using ice9, not ice-9

<bananagram>nvm, thanks

<dsmith-work>np

<dsmith-work>Later on, Guileers. Happy Hacking.

<handheldCar>having trouble getting libgc* 6.8 to work for the bdw-gc 6.8 configure requirement

<mark_weaver>you should really use libgc-7.2d

<handheldCar>ok, no problem

<davexunit>evening everyone

<davexunit>mark_weaver: hey. I'm taking a look at how to hack my own repl server with the new repl code.

<bananagram>morn

<mark_weaver>davexunit: should be the same except without having to propagate *repl-stack*

<mark_weaver>(a nice simplification)

<mark_weaver>hi bananagram!

<mark_weaver>going offline for a while.. ttyl!

<dsmith>Hey hey

<davexunit>I now have a functioning REPL server. A server whose clients start REPLs that run as coroutines within guile-2d's event loop.

<davexunit>what do you all think about making (system repl server) a bit more generic?

<davexunit>I hacked this module for my own purposes, and I realized that I only changed one procedure: serve-client

<handheldCar>configure said readline too old, need 2.1 or later. 6.1 installed from system install

<dsmith>handheldCar, What about the -dev package?

<handheldCar>thanks, that's a possibility

<handheldCar>that was it.

<dsmith>handheldCar, You always have to think about how does ./configure know you have some library installed or not. And usually it's by the header or the pkg-config file. And those are only in the -dev packages.

<aidalgol>Is there a way to get the path of the file from which the current procedure was loaded?

<aidalgol>Or for a module that has been loaded?

<ijp>morning

<aidalgol>mornin'

*aidalgol is implementing per-bot log files.

<ijp>aidalgol: are you using the logger in spells?

<aidalgol>uh, no...

<aidalgol>>_<

<ijp>hehe

<aidalgol>How do I compile the documentation header comments with the @ directives in them?

<aidalgol>In spells.

<aidalgol>Because trying to read it inline is not pleasant.

<ijp>you know, I've never tried

<aidalgol>I s'pose I should bug rotty directly, then.

<ijp>btw, there's a bug in (default-logger-properties), see if you can spot it :)

<aidalgol>lambda isn't unquoted?

<aidalgol>*the lambda

<ijp>ding ding ding

<ijp>I have a pull request to fix that, but it's been, let's see....

<ijp>...at least a year

<aidalgol>Uh... huh...

<aidalgol>Is rotty dead?

<ijp>not as of january

<ijp>but could be

<aidalgol>Bug aside, that logging library seems overkill for this.

<aidalgol>Take a look at the 'logging' branch and tell me what you think of what I have so far.

<ijp>I've never seen a logging library that didn't look like overkill

<aidalgol>What are you, birny?

*ijp flays aidalgol for force pushing

<aidalgol>Gah! You noticed!

<aidalgol>Sorry!

<ijp>well, it's an improvement

<ijp>heh, it's quite amusing that 'Software Foundations' comes as a valid coq file

<aidalgol>How so?

<ijp>that's literally how it's distributed

<ijp>for each section you get a html page and a .v file that the html was generated from

<ijp>which actually makes it really convenient to read from emacs

<aidalgol>ijp: How do you load/unload plugins, again?

<ijp>(use-plugin! bot 'plugin-name)

<ijp>and remove-plugin! to remove

<aidalgol>No more need for register-command! ?

<ijp>I'd keep it around for one-offs

<aidalgol>right

<aidalgol>Should we put any of run-cbot.scm in the library itself (bot.scm) ?

<ijp>I'm not sure

<aidalgol>It still feels a little clumsy.

<ijp>I think it would be nice to have a fancy procedure/macro for creating them

<ijp>but I'm not sure what it should look like

<ijp>I have some ideas, I'll maybe push one to a branch later

<aidalgol>Oh, good! This is what I keep fiddling with instead of setting up an instance, and am not getting anywhere.

<aidalgol>You work on that; I'll work on the logging.

<ijp>civodul: you've used proof general? how do I get it to stop interfering with buffer switching?

<ijp>like if I C-x b in my *goals* window, it will move to the window with the .v, and then switch that one

<stis>evening folks!

<ijp>evening

<stis>ijp: I fanally managed to get delimeted continuations fro guile-log, kanren and prolog correct, phue!

<ijp>cool

<ijp>I've just been wrestling with coq and proof general all day

<stis>Bin there done that. No I would like to transfer that to guile-log, think of using all cool constructs on proof search

<stis>actually delimited continuations for prolog is right on the resaearch front right now,

<stis> https://lirias.kuleuven.be/handle/123456789/415568

<stis>from 2013!

<stis>And their continuations are not first class!!

<ijp>well, I can't even imagine how that should work with relational programs

<ijp>of course, my imagination does not limit reality

<stis>Ijp, it's really not easy to combine them with interleaving construts.

<stis>pure kanren can't support it and you need a more advanced version of guarded variables .

<ijp>yes, but I was thinking more about going in the reverse direction

<ijp>perhaps we can implement a "come from" as an april fools :)

<ijp>

<stis>reverse direction?

<ijp>e.g. (+o a b 3)

<ijp>if you think of functions of computations, then you are reversing it from an argument to an answer

<ijp>of functions as*

<ijp>answer to an argument*

<ijp>gah!

<stis>yes I'm more found of values then out arguments, but I managed quite well to implement this.

<ijp>gah, time to go raking through the bowels of 'git reflog'

<stis>cool, happy hacking!

<ijp>not hacking, data recovery :)

<stis>oh, not so cool, but keep up the happiness still if you can ;-)

<ijp>phew, I think that's everything

*stis cheers!

<ijp>"system/repl/server.scm:64:0: Error while printing exception." my favourite error

<ijp>right after the "too many errors" error

<stis>haha, yea error reporting is not gule's strength.

<ijp>in this case it was because I passed in a keyword argument without the keyword :(

<stis>ugh!

<stis>ijp: You are complaining about lua's parser, checkout my prolog parser, to se a hopefully sane one!

<ijp>unless it parses lua, it's not going to do me any good :)

<stis>No, but I use a operator parser framework e.g. you just configure it and it parses expressions.

<stis>I used it for a C parser as well to parse C expressions

<stis>It also shows a pattern to borrow from.

<ijp>I know how to write a parser

<stis>But I bet there is better references for suchj tools then guile-log

<ijp>I might be hitting an optimizer bug

<stis>...

<ijp>I have some code that works correctly when I wrap a particular expression with 'pk', but now when I remove it

<ijp>but not*

<ijp>weird

<ijp>oh wow

<ijp>it optimizes away a mutable variable that depends on function arguments

<ijp>that's not just broken, but terribroken

<ijp>that pun probably works better for the east asians who are currently asleep and not on the channel

<ijp>okay, I have a smallish example

<ijp> https://gist.github.com/ijp/6844953

<ijp>even though the value of l depends on the input, it gets optimized away to '()

*ijp grumbles, and mails the tracker

<ijp>aidalgol: morning

<stis>outch!

<ijp>aidalgol: I've been distracted from the bot by optimizer bugs!

<aidalgol>Help, I'm being oppressed!

<aidalgol>I mean, Hi!

<ijp>so now that I know it isn't my fault, I need to rewrite this code

<stis>ijp 2.0.5 does not have this bug. A bisect shoule be possible.

<ijp>bisecting is a pain because I have tweaks to the configure.ac that always give me trouble

<ijp>it basically means a full build every time :(

<aidalgol>ijp: Fun fun fun!

<aidalgol>I didn't know you worked on Guile at that level.

<ijp>I don't really

<ijp>cunning-bot: lets

<cunning-bot>Let's embrace nihilism enthusiastically.

<ijp>cunning-bot: shoot aidalgol

<cunning-bot>Wrong type argument in position 1: (vector (quote ("shotgun" . "blasts")) (quote ("ICBM silo" . "nukes")) (quote ("water gun" . "drenches")) (quote ("flame thrower" . "roasts")) (quote ("tranquilizer gun" . "knocks out")) (quote ("taser" . "electrocutes")) (quote ("Colt Peacemaker" . "pacifies")) (quote ("RFC1149-compliant avian carrier" . "UDP floods")) (quote ("Batarang" . "knocks %s down")) (quote ("shell" . "fork b

<ijp>le sigh

<ijp>aidalgol: check the sugar branch

<ijp>right now 'bot' is a procedure using keyword arguments, but it would be better to make it a macro I think

<ijp>and remember to pull the changes from master this time -_-

<aidalgol>Mmm, syntactic sugar.

<aidalgol>So, as a macro newb, why a macro instead of a function?

<ijp>aidalgol: the keyword approach is nice, but keywords are always optional

<aidalgol>oh

<ijp>you can throw an error, from the body, but it isn't the same

<aidalgol>How would a macro solve this?

<ijp>because then we can check for it at expansion time

<aidalgol>OK, you'll have to show me. This is outside my knowledge of macros.

<aidalgol>Hmm. looks like I fucked up the firearms transition.

<ijp>it's not an important difference at the moment anyway

<mark_weaver>ijp: that's a nasty bug that you just reported. it happens on stable-2.0 as well :-(

<ijp>it's funny that a bug that hides itself appeared so close to my thompson bug blogpost :)

<mark_weaver>how does the bug hide itself?

<ijp>when I pk, it isn't there

<aidalgol>pk?

<mark_weaver>we really ought to document pk :)

<ijp>aidalgol: pk (or peek) is just a function that prints out a value and then returns it

<aidalgol>ah

<mark_weaver>it actually prints out all of its arguments, and then returns the last one. so it's quite useful to wrap around expressions whose values you want to see, usually prefixed by a literal symbol or string (as a label)

<mark_weaver>e.g. (some-expression) => (pk 'blah (some-expression))

<aidalgol>I've been MUDding too much, because I saw "pk" and thought "player-kill(er|ing)".

<add^_>aidalgol: :-)

<mark_weaver>ijp: well, the problem is in peval. it removes the 'l' from the call to 'apply'.

<mark_weaver>and then no doubt a later pass removes 'l' entirely, which at this point is justifiable.

<mark_weaver>s/this/that/

<ijp>well, I haven't looked much into the peval code, but it seems to me that it must have not been seeing the set!

<mark_weaver>right

<mark_weaver>I haven't looked at peval much either.. maybe it's time to start :)

<ijp>I read it back when civodul added it, but then wingo started adding all these counters :)

<ijp>on a slight tangent, I read the syntax case chapter from 'beautiful code', and it was surprisingly simple

<ArneBab>sneek: later tell davexunit that it would be really cool, if guile-2d were installable from guix (along with all dependencies).

<sneek>Will do.

<ArneBab>sneek: later tell davexunit or at least with all the dependencies which are not in debian.

<sneek>Will do.

<ArneBab>sneek: botsnack

<sneek>:)

<bananagram>sneek: hi

<bananagram>sneek: help

<bananagram>sneek: who is sneek

<sneek>From what I understand, sneek is a good boy

<bananagram>hmm

<ijp>pfft, so you say

<civodul>ijp: i don't remember having problems with ProofGeneral

<sneek>Welcome back civodul, you have 4 messages.

<sneek>civodul, mark_weaver says: I've used '@' to reference macros, even a few days ago, and it always seems to work for me.

<sneek>civodul, mark_weaver says: e.g. ((@ (guile) define) (foo x y) (+ x y)) (foo 2 3) => 5

<sneek>civodul, mark_weaver says: afaict, it even works for primitive syntactic keywords that aren't macros, e.g. ((@ (guile) @) (ice-9 local-eval) local-eval) => #<procedure local-eval (x e)>

<sneek>civodul, mark_weaver says: and ((@ (guile) quote) (1 2)) => (1 2)

<civodul>that was a couple of years ago tho

<civodul>hmm

<ijp>civodul: I nearly died of shock when it opened a new *frame*

<civodul>oh, i can understand :-)

<civodul>dunno, i don't remember going through that

<civodul>mark_weaver: hmm you seem to be right (re macros)

<civodul>i do remember having problems (getting a raw syntax-transformer object), but i can't come up with a test case

<ArneBab>sneek: later tell davexunit Here’s a patch to include installation instructions for Gentoo: http://bpaste.net/show/138075/

<sneek>Got it.

<ArneBab>sneek: later tell davexunit The examples/images folder misses sprite.png (from readme.org)

<sneek>Got it.

<ArneBab>sneek: botsnack

<sneek>:)

<youlysse`>What would a skribilo file best be licensed as -- under the GFDL?

<civodul>youlysse`: funnily, you don't really have the choice: it must be GPLv3-compatible

<civodul>in theory at least

<youlysse`>Well -- that make it easy at least. :^I

<civodul>because technically, a Skribilo document is a program that uses Skribilo as a library

<civodul>i need to ask licensing@ about that

<ArneBab>sneek: later tell davexunit: A patch to get examples/scenes.scm running: http://bpaste.net/show/138086/

<sneek>Will do.

<ArneBab>civodul: doesn’t Skribilo have a linking exceptions?

<ArneBab>exception

<civodul>no, but maybe it should

<ArneBab>sneek: later tell davexunit: How does guile-2d handle it, if it cannot realize a timestep of 1/60th of a second?

<sneek>Okay.

<ArneBab>sneek: later tell davexunit: What I really liked in pyglet was that every step of the game-loop got a dt parameter which contained the time since the last step. That allows for physically realistic behaviour.

<sneek>Got it.

<ArneBab>sneek: botsnack

<sneek>:)

IRC channel logs

2013-10-05.log