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<davexunit>does anyone know how to build guile-figl without docs?
<davexunit>they *always* fail for me.
<davexunit>or does anyone know how you usually tell make to build without texinfo docs?
<DerGuteMoritz>wingo: thanks for retweet :-)
*youlysses wonders how troublesome it'd be to get guile-sdl and just generally guile working on the OUYA (android)....
<DerGuteMoritz>is everything alright? :-)
<youlysses>DerGuteMoritz: On my end?
<DerGuteMoritz>youlysses: oh yeah, it was actually directed at wingo but why not :-)
<youlysses>DerGuteMoritz: Oh, ok. I don't have any of the prior log.. so wasn't sure of the context -- but thanks for the concern. :^)
<DerGuteMoritz>very nice :-)
*DerGuteMoritz smiles a lot today
<youlysses>In terms of the OUYA, I'm pretty sure doesn't have any mechanism to really lock the system down and I've seen other GNU/Linux software ported (ie: XBMC), so I suppose it's possible, but maybe not trivial. :^P
<DerGuteMoritz>youlysses: there is a project to bring chicken to android, see
<DerGuteMoritz>(and ios, for that matter)
<youlysses>DerGuteMoritz: Oh, very-cool! Though, I'm more-so interested via the developments in guile-sdl and guile-2d tbh. :^P
<brendyn>youlysses: The Android repository has a poor collection of Scheme REPLs at the moment. Some haven't been updated for a year or more. It'd be nice you you could pull together a guile REPL app
<brendyn>Also zero of them are on F-Droid
<DerGuteMoritz>youlysses: ah, is this cool stuff? will check it out
<youlysses>DerGuteMoritz: Yeah, I think wingo threw-up guile-sdl and davexunit is working on a pygame/love-like system to bulid on-top of it. :^)
<youlysses>wingo: That reminds me, I'm not sure if this is your's or-not -- but, the "guile-figl" link on 404s @ .
<youlysses>brendyn: I'll surely look into in the coming months. I think getting guile available at least on a device that has a fairly large-audience and a fairly promising developer pool it's trying to grow, would be a big-plus. And assuming one would be able to get a semi-modern repl on non-rooted devices by effect, too would be great.
<nalaginrut>DerGuteMoritz: how can I find the src of ;-)
*youlysses still needs to find a good Replicant compatible phone to look forward to next-year.
<brendyn>I wouldn't mind finding some kind of cheap mini mini computer, like with a 4inch screen or so that I could put a distro on
<DerGuteMoritz>youlysses: if no repo is mentioned the central svn repo is implied
<brendyn>I've aseen one but it has no wifi or ethernet and has some custom os
<DerGuteMoritz>nalaginrut: ^
<nalaginrut>DerGuteMoritz: thanks!
<nalaginrut>and I'm trying your hyde for git blog
<DerGuteMoritz>oh cool
<DerGuteMoritz>let me know when you run into trouble
<brendyn>Do you it makes more sense to have sub domains in the other direction? like
<nalaginrut>well, I planed write my static page generator with Guile, but I can't wait for it, so I use hyde
<nalaginrut>it's Scheme anyway
<brendyn>Maybe you could port hyde?
<nalaginrut>I checked it, but there seems many chicken specific things
<brendyn>how does it compare to hekyll?
<youlysses>nalaginrut: Ah, don't be chicken. ;^)
<DerGuteMoritz>nalaginrut: you will probably find things you'd like to do differently with hyde :-)
<nalaginrut>brendyn: hyde python and hyde chicken is just static page generator I think
<DerGuteMoritz>brendyn: it's more source oriented compared to hakyll
<nalaginrut>brendyn: but jekyll is supported by github with template render on the fly
<nalaginrut>I think we have to generate pages in our machine if we use hyde, but for jekyll, you just upload the template
<nalaginrut>github will generate the pages on server side
<nalaginrut>that's my opinion, correct me if I'm wrong
<DerGuteMoritz>yeah something like that!
<DerGuteMoritz>never used the github thing myself but AFAIK that's how it works
<brendyn>Yeah, it's a static page generator, after all
<nalaginrut>well, static pages generator is not new stuff, but many guys ask for it, though I'm writing a dynamic web-engine
<nalaginrut>hmm...maybe I'm getting old...
<brendyn>I wouldn't mind some kind of interaction like ajax
<brendyn>i'd have to hook up guile with nginx somehow
<DerGuteMoritz>what's with nginx everyone
<DerGuteMoritz>apache ftw
<nalaginrut>on a lan-party, a guy told me that web-engine is out of date, they want a jekyll thing...
<nalaginrut>but they don't know the efficiency of static pages blog
<brendyn>Dunno, everyone uses it, it's smaller and more efficient
<brendyn>config is probably more difficult
<nalaginrut>what they want is free space and DNS of github I think ;-P
<nalaginrut>brendyn: have you tried Artanis+Nginx?
<brendyn>nalaginrut: Never heard of it
<DerGuteMoritz>hosting of static sites is much easier, secure, and faster usually!
<brendyn>I don't touch my nginx, it just sits there serving up a directory listig
<nalaginrut>Artanis is a web-framework of Guile, and could work with Nginx
<nalaginrut>and ajax of course with dynamic pages
<nalaginrut>I wrote an example to draw cpu-usage-rate with ajax
<nalaginrut>but I didn't commit it to Artanis yet
<nalaginrut>actually, for doing that, I wrote guile-coreutils...
<brendyn>Looks like the guile projects page has gotten bigger
<nalaginrut>well, it's so crazy that one project bares more projects...
<brendyn>Artantis isn't on it tho
<nalaginrut>brendyn: it didn't update for a while
<brendyn>Should use gitorious I think :P
<nalaginrut>and I'm writing websocket support for it, some guys want to write web-games with Artanis
<brendyn>set up a network effect of guile peeps using the free software one
<nalaginrut>brendyn: I used to use gitorious, but github have better social things
<youlysses>brendyn: We *need* a better Savannah... I wonder what happened to that "ng" attempt? :^/
<nalaginrut>well, most of friends pursued me to use github, actually, force mt
<brendyn>seems good to support it though, maybe you can try make it better
<brendyn>seems unhealthy to use github even if is prettier
<nalaginrut>youlysses: yes, we need a better Savannah, and I wish it could be done with Guile someday
<youlysses>On a related, less "urgent" note -- what-ever happened to "modernizing" SCWM, am I missing something -- or?
<brendyn>whats ng?
<youlysses>brendyn: As-in "next-generation".
<brendyn>probably because it was being written by the previous generation people ;)
<nalaginrut>someday I told this to RMS, he said he likes it, that's why I wrote Artanis then...but it seems a very huge project...alas
<youlysses>It's relatively common notation. I've seen it in/around the Hurd and a few other projects.
<brendyn>I head about how Guix decided not to utilize Hurd features
<brendyn>seems kinda sad
<brendyn>Apparently it has lots of things that can integrate with it for package managing
<nalaginrut>I prefer it stay with POSIX
<brendyn>Are they mutually exclusive decisions?
<brendyn>If so then I'd agree, but still unfortunate.
<nalaginrut>dunno, I have looked it
<nalaginrut>but if it's OS specific, it's not so happy to work with it
<youlysses>brendyn: They probably don't want to be more-or-less exclusively tied to the Hurd, when Linux is still some prominent and there been are recent push to linux-libre in the mean-time for the Hurd to "catch up".
<nalaginrut>I know how painful it is...
<brendyn>Probably it is only sad from a technicallity/elegence perspective
<brendyn>Guix can certainly still be used for Hurd, it just won't leaverage it's features.
<youlysses>brendyn: I did-see that the hurd is planning to adapt a translator to work better with Guix though. I think one-day we might get to a point where the Hurd is prominent that the GNU project can make such decisions, but it's certainly not prominent enough -- to earn it any favor at least
<nalaginrut>I do think Guix is portable, if it's not, I'll ping ludo ;-)
<brendyn>I wonder how Hurd intends to catch up. I guess it needs to have emulation to steal Linux drivers and such?
<youlysses>brendyn: It already has a compatibility layer for up to linux 2.7.x, I believe.
<brendyn>It can't catch up without reusing from Linux, in my uneducated opinion.
<youlysses>Well, at least in-terms of wireless.
<brendyn>What year is 2.76?
<brendyn>What year is 2.7?
<youlysses>Probably ~2009-2010ish?
<youlysses>More-or-less answering my own question: In-terms of SCWM -- I suppose that the effort is not very-well spent there. From what I've seen/understand WMs don't really port-well, or rather even at-all to wayland. I think the safer-bet is to eventually just write a general compositor in/for guile. :^P
<brendyn>If you can make one on par with i3, I'm in
<brendyn>What's this business with Ubunpoo not liking Wayland and making their own thing though?
<youlysses>brendyn: Well I'm personally more-interested in the usability of something like ratpoison/stumpwm, but such-a thing would be flexible enough to emulate just-about any other current WM out-there (well at least ideally).
<brendyn>I haven't really comared, I just find this one good
<youlysses>brendyn: Well, ideally -- I'd have a pseudo-DE like experience in the-key of Emacs. But that is far beyond my current experience and some years down the line --in-general, from how I see it, with the current tech I see available. But certainly such a thing seems to slowly-but-surely shifting in this direction, to-which I'm thrilled. :^)
<brendyn>Separating windows and buffers so you can have the same program appear in different places seems interesting
<brendyn>Like if you are presenting things with a projector with a laptop
<brendyn>Saves doing tricky xrandr stuff that isn't entirely convenient
<youlysses>brendyn: To-what I understand, It's kind-of like what happened with GNOME. It kind-of was in the direction they wanted to go, but they wanted to push changes at a speed and too in a slightly-different direction to what commonly was accepted as "upstream", so they decide to cut their losses and go full NIH.
<brendyn>meaning they copied other things?
<youlysses>brendyn: Yup, that's one of the cool things you can currently do via Emacs similar model.
<youlysses>brendyn: You mean the design, or?
<brendyn>i dont know, what ever you are refering to
<youlysses>brendyn: In-regards to Ubuntu and Mir.
<youlysses>Same with their prior case with Unity and GNOME.
<brendyn>Personally I just didn not bother. I'd switched to a tiling window manager once Gnome 2.32 was being discarded
<brendyn>Icon grids just seem stupid and slow to me
<brendyn>I would like to launch apps with something like Smex
<brendyn>I have dmenu but it only has trivial tab completion
<brendyn>Hmm, I wonder if you could rip smex out and run it on guiles Elisp thingy
<youlysses>brendyn: I actually did and still do like GNOME 3.x, it's an experience that I'd certainly recommend the most friends and family. Things are very self-evident and the few concepts that aren't immediately, are quite trivial with minimal effort -- to figure out. That being said, I'd take my stumpwm setup any-day of the week... but there are somethings in-regards to DEs that I miss and too would be nice to implement. That why a project
<youlysses>like Xiomacs interested me so-much initially
<nalaginrut>DerGuteMoritz: well, hyde is very cool ,works well for me
<nalaginrut>thanks for it!
<nalaginrut>but why not generate .html rather than .xml?
<brendyn>can hyde do html5?
<nalaginrut>I think html5 just tags, and any tags could be handled with sxml
<nalaginrut>and render of html5 is the work of browser
<brendyn>when i do hyde init, i get `((xhtml-1.0-strict)
<nalaginrut>hmm... ping DerGuteMoritz
<nalaginrut>well, it's my mistake to add (ext . "xml") ...
<DerGuteMoritz>nalaginrut: sorry, was afk
<DerGuteMoritz>nalaginrut: right, .html should be the default actually
<DerGuteMoritz>html5 is supported AFAICT
<nalaginrut>DerGuteMoritz: did you build the page with it on github?
<nalaginrut>I think the problem is index.html is not under root
<nalaginrut>I'll make a link then try
<DerGuteMoritz>the "out" directory is the root
<DerGuteMoritz>if you have src/index.sxml or something it should generate out/index.html
<DerGuteMoritz>all you put on your document root on the server is the contents of out/
<DerGuteMoritz>at least that's how I do it
<nalaginrut>but gh-pages on github need index.html in the project root
<nalaginrut>anyone ever tried it?
<nalaginrut>I can't test it since I have to wait for 10 minutes
<DerGuteMoritz>well can't you put your project root in out/?
<nalaginrut>DerGuteMoritz: if I do that, I can't commit the meta stuff
<nalaginrut>I mean the things of hyde
<nalaginrut>I need to maintain the stuff as well
<nalaginrut>anway, one solution is setup output-path as root
<DerGuteMoritz>right, you'd have to track that in a different repo or branch
<DerGuteMoritz>weird deployment model github has there :-)
<DerGuteMoritz>yeah setting output-path as root might work but doesn't github then serve your meta stuff, too?
<nalaginrut>no, I think github only know fetch index.html, IMO it's how the github pages feature works
<nalaginrut>since it's static pages, so only index.html is enough
<DerGuteMoritz>but what if you need more than one page?
<nalaginrut>index.html will link it
<nalaginrut>when you have index.html you have all
<brendyn>Does hyde have documentation?
<DerGuteMoritz>can't you also link to, say, hyde.scm then?
<DerGuteMoritz>brendyn: yep
<brendyn>there is no man or info page
<nalaginrut>well, I think you need a tutorial
<nalaginrut>actually there is
<DerGuteMoritz>yeah, no man or info in chicken land usually
<DerGuteMoritz>yep, the documentation has a small getting started guide
<nalaginrut>I could write a tutorial if I done this
<nalaginrut>DerGuteMoritz: what's the utility of hyde.scm?
<DerGuteMoritz>and there is also a blog post by C-Keen about how to set it up as a blog
<DerGuteMoritz>nalaginrut: it's loaded before page generation starts
<DerGuteMoritz>nalaginrut: so you can use it, e.g. to set output-path
<DerGuteMoritz>err output-dir
<nalaginrut>yes, that's what I thought
<DerGuteMoritz>nalaginrut: it is described in the documentation
<brendyn>I can't see any way to do html there
<brendyn>I can't see any way to do html5 there
<DerGuteMoritz>brendyn: just change the doctype
<nalaginrut>now I just made a link, but I have to wait another 10 minutes since I removed CNAME
<nalaginrut>DerGuteMoritz: why not set the doctype as optional
<DerGuteMoritz>nalaginrut: it's not mandatory
<DerGuteMoritz>in hyde at least
<DerGuteMoritz>you can do whatever you like to the default layout
<DerGuteMoritz>it's just generated as a starting point
<nalaginrut>any template support?
<DerGuteMoritz>yeah, but only rudimentary and I think I didn't tag a release for that yet
<DerGuteMoritz>yeah I didn't
<nalaginrut>DerGuteMoritz: alas~it can't support link, it works when I copy index.html out
<nalaginrut>DerGuteMoritz: how to setup output-path? "./" right?
<DerGuteMoritz>yeah that should work
<DerGuteMoritz>and be sure to set (clean-before-build #f)
<DerGuteMoritz>otherwise it will purge the output-dir before build
<nalaginrut>no~it's (output-dir "")
<nalaginrut>what is clean before build?
<DerGuteMoritz>nalaginrut: see my last message ;-)
<DerGuteMoritz>brendyn: oh cool
<DerGuteMoritz>thanks for the link
<brendyn>haven't really looked into it. It was on Hacker News. Maybe you can explain it back to me ;)
<DerGuteMoritz>it tries to be a more structured and extensible Markdown
<DerGuteMoritz>we've been thinking about something like that over in #chicken a few times
<brendyn>Something like that, but with embedded scheme instead of python?
<brendyn>Do you think that type of syntax is nicer than scheme/sxml/whatever?
<DerGuteMoritz>no we weren't thinking about embedding code
<DerGuteMoritz>more like making the syntax modular
<DerGuteMoritz>well if most of your content is text and only a bit of markup, then yeah
<nalaginrut>I could write a main-site for Artanis with hyde~
<nalaginrut>maybe I need more complicated stuff with it, it's so cool~
<DerGuteMoritz>glad you like it
<nalaginrut>but if I write similar thing with Guile, I'll add html template
<DerGuteMoritz>html template?
<nalaginrut><%= (format #f "hello ~a" "world) %>
<nalaginrut>anyway, SXML could do it totally
<nalaginrut>but many not-so-lispy-guys want to use html template
<DerGuteMoritz>oh well
<DerGuteMoritz>you can add new translators to hyde
<dsmith>wingo, Your latest round of patches seems to have cleared up the rtl.test failure
<dsmith>wingo, Though now test-language is failing..
<nalaginrut>DerGuteMoritz: how can I insert js code within body?
<nalaginrut>I mean in src/
<DerGuteMoritz>nalaginrut: I think there is a <nowiki> tag
<nalaginrut><> was encoded?
<DerGuteMoritz>the svnwiki syntax is very crufty
<nalaginrut>yes, very nice
<DerGuteMoritz>^ here's a reference
<nalaginrut>added disquz code for comments
<nalaginrut>well, so cool so far~
<nalaginrut>DerGuteMoritz: what's the SXML on src/ head means?
<DerGuteMoritz>nalaginrut: it's not SXML but an alist
<nalaginrut>hmm ;-P
<DerGuteMoritz>nalaginrut: check the documentation
<DerGuteMoritz>it's the page-vars mechanism
<nalaginrut>DerGuteMoritz: is it markdown in default in
<DerGuteMoritz>no, that's svnwiki
<DerGuteMoritz>rename it to to get markdown
<nalaginrut>did you mean 'hyde new md index" ?
<nalaginrut>so hyde will detect the page-type when compiling?
<DerGuteMoritz>best read the documentation :-)
<DerGuteMoritz>afk for a bit
<nalaginrut>I read it, but it's not so clear
<nalaginrut>I think I can only specify page-type in hyde.scm for all pages, right?
<nalaginrut>I can't mix md & wiki
<DerGuteMoritz>nalaginrut: what gives you the idea that you have to specify page types in hyde.scm?
<DerGuteMoritz>nalaginrut: you an define translators there but the type of a specific page is defined by its source file extension
<DerGuteMoritz>so you can certainly mix .md and .wiki
<dsmith>sneek, later tell wingo Have you tried master on 32bit lately?
<sneek>Got it.
<wingo>dsmith: nope, haven't
<sneek>Welcome back wingo, you have 1 message.
<sneek>wingo, dsmith says: Have you tried master on 32bit lately?
<nalaginrut_>chicken downloading is sooooo slowly when I'm behind the firewall
*nalaginrut_ want to port hyde to Guile
***fangism-nomnom is now known as fangism
<mark_weaver>hi shanecelis
<shanecelis>hey mark_weaver :)
<davexunit>hey shanecelis
<shanecelis>hey everybody, I made an emacsy webkit gtk browser example this weekend.
<davexunit>shanecelis: yay! any cool screenshots/videos?
<shanecelis>I'll publish it soon with a emacsy 0.1.1 release and announce it on guile-user
<shanecelis>davexunit: It is unfortunately on my other virtual machine. :(
<davexunit>that's okay. :)
<davexunit>shanecelis: I think a little introduction screencast would be cool.
<shanecelis>davexunit: Yeah, I'm going to be doing a pre-recorded talk for the GNU Hackers meeting, so I should be able to cut up a quick intro screencast too.
<shanecelis>I tried getting libwebkitgtk to compile on OS X, but it was too much work. I just ended up installing debian to an external harddrive.
<davexunit>shanecelis: very cool. if only the hackers meeting wasn't in paris... well, I get easy access to libreplanet in Boston at least. :)
<shanecelis>I'm close enough to Boston to make a trip (Vermont).
<davexunit>it's a yearly conference run by the fsf
<shanecelis>Cool. I'll have to check it out next year.
<shanecelis>So civodul (Ludo) is on vacation again while there is a GSoC deadline coming up.
<shanecelis>Hopefully, everything will work out. I'm giving him a heads up on it.
<shanecelis>This emacsy stuff is fun to work on. It's hard to go back to my real job.
***linas_ is now known as linas
<shanecelis>If I wanted to do a symbol lookup in guile, I know I can use eval, but for whatever reason I feel like I ought to try to do something "safer" for the lookup. I know I can do that in C with scm_public_lookup()
<shanecelis>Hmm, probably just (module-ref (current-module) 'my-symbol)
<taylanub>Yes, although are you sure there's not a better way of what you're trying to do ?
<shanecelis>taylanub: Not sure. I'm trying to deal with command-sets in Emacsy, kind of analogous to keymaps. I want to have the TAB completed commands be more context sensitive.
<shanecelis>taylanub: So I figure I can segregate commands into different sets that would be included at different times depending on the mode.
<shanecelis>taylanub: If I define command-maps with keys of command-symbol and values of command-proc (instead of command-set which just has the command-symbol), then I run the risk of having the command-proc becoming out of sync what the command-symbol actually refers to.
<davexunit>shanecelis: use a "trampoline"
<davexunit>(lambda () (command-proc))
<davexunit>psuedocode: (bind-key "C-c" (lambda () (do-something)))
<shanecelis>davexunit: [nods] hmm...
<davexunit>this way you can re-define do-something and your handler will still work as expected.
<davexunit>gotta go! 5pm is time to leave the office.
<shanecelis>davexunit: Thanks!