IRC channel logs

<nalaginrut>morning guilers~

<nalaginrut>yup, many bugs of Guile just disappeared when I prayed then make clean (I'm serious), sometimes I don't have any chance to find out what's the matter...

<nalaginrut>maybe it's related to .go cache?

<adu>morning

<adu>cache can be tricky

<Chaos`Eternal>helo gurus

<Chaos`Eternal>anybody has idea about whether guile can serialize a continuation ?

***chaos_ is now known as Chaos`Eternal

<nalaginrut>heya wingo

<wingo>moin

<wingo>moin janneke

<janneke>hey wingo! aren't we early :)

<wingo>yes, wtf :)

<wingo>i was waiting at the baker's this morning before they opened

<wingo>something is clearly wrong :)

<janneke>yeah, bakers starting to sleep in, what's this world coming to?

<janneke>some great off topic news

<janneke>last saturday, a lilypond-made national hymn book was presented, 40,000 copies and already sold out

<wingo>wow, that's wonderful!

<wingo>what a good feeling :)

<janneke>yeah, great national coverage [no word on lilypond yet, though]

<janneke>but several comments on how beautiful the book is :-)

<wingo>:)

*janneke sees nice patchset in guile-devel and has an experience-based theory on why wingo was up so early

<wingo>hack on the mind? :)

<janneke>why sleep if you need to hack :-)

<nalaginrut>wingo: any recommended approach to serialize continuation/procedure/hash-table? I saw hash-table can't be serialized in Racket, but I could permit users pass in a call-back to unserialize their hash-table

<wingo>yes, the application ultimately needs to control how to serialize and deserialize its data

<wingo>as far as procedures go that can be difficult

<wingo>racket has serializable continuations fwiw

<nalaginrut>I have an idea to serialize procedure from bytecode, but I can't get rid of its binding name

<wingo>it's a special kind of continuation though

<wingo>don't hack the bytecode, all that will change in 2.2...

<wingo>and with native compilation...

<nalaginrut>wingo: so not all kind of continuation could be serialized, right? Unless we design a serializable one?

<nalaginrut>and it won't be full-work one

<wingo>dunno, many things are possible in software ;)

<nalaginrut>OK, don't hack the bytecode ;-P

<nalaginrut>but what's the proper point to cut in?

<wingo>but i would look to racket for ideas.

<wingo>nalaginrut: study racket and see what they do :)

<nalaginrut>I'm reading the code in racket, just ask some advices

<nalaginrut>hmm...racket can't serialize procedure too...

<nalaginrut>OK, seems chicken's s11n picked the very same design of mine, just pass serializor/unserializor in

<civodul>Hello Guilers!

<wingo>heya civodul :-)

<Chaos`Eternal>anybody has idea about whether guile can serialize a continuation, so that the continuation can be stored in a file or send over network

<Chaos`Eternal>and then be restored later?

<civodul>short answer is it can't

<Chaos`Eternal>don't like this short answer

<Chaos`Eternal>chicken can, gambit-c can

<civodul>oh really?

<civodul>i'd expect it to be more difficult in the case of native code compilers

<civodul>on Guile's VM you could play tricks with the debugging/introspection features

<civodul>but that still wouldn't allow you to reinstate the stack frames

<Chaos`Eternal>nalaginrut has some suggestions , but i still want to hear more from gurus...

<wingo>i just gave him my answers :) basically, look to racket and see what they do, and if it makes sense for guile, come back with a proposal

<wingo>it's not a high priority atm tho

<Chaos`Eternal>e, yes, racket has this feature...

<Chaos`Eternal>em, I'm trying to port termite(a erlang style concurrency libarary on gambit-c) to guile

<Chaos`Eternal>but there are too many pitfalls : no thread-mailbox, no match/action, and at last, no serializable continuations

<Chaos`Eternal>no s11n continuations, no process migrations

<Chaos`Eternal>for thread-mailbox, guile-zmq can be used instead, and mathc/action also not necessary

<nalaginrut>Chaos`Eternal: actually I've talked that with wingo few minutes ago

<nalaginrut>Chaos`Eternal: And continuation/procedure/hash-table can't be serialized in Racket/Chicken

<nalaginrut>Chaos`Eternal: but chicken give users a way to implement serialization themself

<nalaginrut>and it's the same design with my guile-persist

<nalaginrut>For serializable-continuation, it's totally another story

<Chaos`Eternal>chicken egg s11n

<nalaginrut>Chaos`Eternal: I've checked s11n ago

<Chaos`Eternal>en, i'm checking it now

<nalaginrut>it permit users pass their own serializor to implement the serialization

<nalaginrut>that's the same design in my guile-persist, anyway, there's no given way to serialization continuation/procedure/hash-table, it depends on users

<nalaginrut>s/serialization/serialize

<nalaginrut>users have to write their own serializator/deserializator to done the work

<Chaos`Eternal>but that is trivial

<Chaos`Eternal>here is an example of the serializer : http://code.call-cc.org/svn/chicken-eggs/release/4/termite/trunk/termite.scm

<nalaginrut>it's one of the serializator

<Chaos`Eternal>trivial serializer

<nalaginrut>anyway, serializer depends on users' work, for any language

<Chaos`Eternal>but there is no hook...

<Chaos`Eternal>i tried your code...

<nalaginrut>I'm writing the thing you need

<nalaginrut>include a middle-structure for users' convert of serializator

***chaos_ is now known as Chaos`Eternal