IRC channel logs

<mark_weaver>not that I know of

<mark_weaver>sure, it could be fixed fairly easily.

<mark_weaver>but right now it works one character at a time.

<mark_weaver>if it's fixed, it would be nice to do so without making it too slow though.

<civodul>yeah but string-locale-upcase does it right, we just have to do the same

<civodul>right

*civodul -> zZz

<wingo>evening, mark_weaver

<wingo>a brief one anyway

*wingo zzz soon

<mark_weaver>hi wingo!

<mark_weaver>have a good sleep :)

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***yoda` is now known as zacts

***sneek_ is now known as sneek

<nalaginrut>morning guilers~

<CaptainLex>Morning nalaginrut!

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: heya~

<aoi^>hi guys

<aoi^>i've been starting to look at stuff like wookie on CL and wondering if there is something similar on guile?

<nalaginrut>aoi^: you need an async-server

<nalaginrut>?

<nalaginrut>aoi^: or you just need web-framework with sinatra like route?

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Is there a stable webstack for Scheme?

<CaptainLex>I was thinking of using compojure for my Lisp In Summer Projects submission, but I'd love to use Scheme instead

<nalaginrut>I've no idea about a stable one, maybe guile-www? and there's an unstable wip one: https://github.com/NalaGinrut/artanis

<nalaginrut>I'm working on it ;-)

<CaptainLex>Hmm, these look like they require more server-side knowledge than I had hoped for

<CaptainLex>And it is probably a good idea to at least learn clojure if I ever hope to be employed

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Not to belittle your accomplishment

<CaptainLex>By giving Guile the libraries and applications that make it a real-world development choice, you are doing the Lord's own work :D

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: that's fine, it's fun for me

<nalaginrut>I just do what I love

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: If you would like to be more helpful, could you list the things you expected?

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: I'm definitely not at a place where I could give you that kind of feedback, I'm afraid. Perhaps, indeed, I spoke too quickly

<aoi^>nalaginrut: i was thinking about an async layer like clasync that wookie uses, yes

<aoi^>nalaginrut: but doesn't have to be

<nalaginrut>aoi^: so you just need sinatra?

<aoi^>ok, i will have a look at that

<nalaginrut>aoi^: well, sinatra is for Ruby, I mean sinatra like route

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: I once thought that all I ever needed in a web framework was routing and layouts

<aoi^>ok, i did a little hacking on apps with Mojolicious on Perl

<aoi^>sort of like that style of framework

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: So maybe that's all I do need!

<CaptainLex>s/thought/said

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: there's routing and template in artanis, but session & cookie is not completed, and I'm working on relational mapping

<nalaginrut>anyway, session & cookie is almost done...

<aoi^>session and cookie isn't that difficult to add ?

<aoi^>=)

<aoi^>nice

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Well, if I decided to try to make a website with it this summer, would I be able to bug you for support? ;)

<nalaginrut>there is, but something needed

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: that's very greate

<nalaginrut>great

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: I need any feedback to improve it

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Are you aware of Lisp In Summer Projects?

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: yes, I know it, I'm planing to do a blog-engine for that, based on artanis, so you may choose another

<CaptainLex>CaptainLex: I was planning on doing a very specific website that was a database for the 99 problems and their solutions in various functional languages

<CaptainLex>Oops

<aoi^>nalaginrut: that sounds really useful =)

<nalaginrut>I'll do more things auto-generated, not barely Artanis

<CaptainLex>highlight nalaginrut

<nalaginrut>thanks guys~

<nalaginrut>I need more guys to do web things in Scheme, so that I can talk/learn things from each other

<aoi^>nalaginrut: yeah, me too =)

<CaptainLex>aoi^: Do you know about Lisp In Summer Projects also, then?

<aoi^>CaptainLex: no, have not heard of it before

<aoi^>i assume summer in the northern hemisphere?

<CaptainLex>lispinsummerprojects.com

<CaptainLex>Indeed, that summer

<nalaginrut>hah, we should talk about Lisp in summer projects, in case we choose the same thing to try ;-P

<nalaginrut>or just be a team?

<aoi^>so, winter projects ;)

<CaptainLex>but (mostly) global participation!

<nalaginrut>I don't know if it permit

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: I'm not sure that it is allowed, but I like the idea of all of us working on different projects and bouncing off each other

<nalaginrut>if we could be a team, I could stick to the web-framework itself

*aoi^ will have all next week to hack on code while on holiday =)

<aoi^>specifically i'd like to get something webby and db driven...

*aoi^ would like to use more lisp/scheme/guile at work

*CaptainLex gets to code in Scheme all summer long

<nalaginrut>but anyway, a global participation sounds cool, but not easy, maybe next time hmm..

<aoi^>CaptainLex: summer is that week between chrismas and new years =/

<aoi^>as in thats my typical holidays for the year =P

<CaptainLex>aoi^: :(

<nalaginrut>I think it's June to September?

<CaptainLex>I'm in my last summer before graduating from university

<CaptainLex>and it looks like I'll be doing Google Summer of Code!

<aoi^>but this weenend is mothers day, so i am taking time off to see family and travel a bit and hack on code =)

<aoi^>CaptainLex: nice =)

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: did you decide what to try in SoC?

<aoi^>nalaginrut: but we can hack on code for web apps any time =D

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: I'll be packaging GNOME for Guix

<aoi^>whats guix?

<CaptainLex>aoi^: It's package manager (and, eventually, a distro) written in Guile

<aoi^>ok

<CaptainLex>It's a Guiled up Nix, if you know it

<aoi^>sounds interesting.

<aoi^>my end goal using guile is to write a number of ncurses and web apps for an embedded platorm

<aoi^>at this stage most probably on the raspberry pi

<aoi^>mobile being core; vehicle/bicycle/walking

<aoi^>also network visualisation is part of that...

<nalaginrut>aoi^: YES! we can! And I want to finish Artanis as a stable web-framework

<aoi^>so here; https://github.com/NalaGinrut/artanis

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: How long do you think that would take? How much is left?

<nalaginrut>the genesis is just I want to build my own site/blog in pure Scheme way

***aoi^ is now known as aoi-

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: artanis is guile potluck project, it just took 1 week to be done, and I'm improving it these months

<nalaginrut>since there's no users before, I just do it slowly

<aoi->nalaginrut: you say on the git hub page; "sinatra like style route"

<aoi->are routes like the Mojolocious routeS?

*aoi- hasn't heard of sinatra before, so ..

<nalaginrut>I think the rest of work is to make sure session&cookie work fine, and relational mapping

<aoi->relational mapping?

<aoi->to the database layer?

<nalaginrut>others is OK I think. And I think it's all basic for a web-framework

<CaptainLex>I'm with aoi-: what do you mean by relational mapping?

<nalaginrut>aoi-: yes, we use ORM often, but I'd like to try a way for FP-RM

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: do you know Object relational mapping?

<nalaginrut>it's an abstract for database

<aoi->what is FP-RM ?

<aoi->ok

<nalaginrut>aoi-: it's my idea, just drop object-oriented, just FP way

<aoi->FP == functional programming ?

<nalaginrut>and another interesting thing maybe ssql

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: I understand it as a database scheme; I don't know what needs to be implemented in the framework itself

<CaptainLex>You mean, as a means of bypassing sql programming?

<nalaginrut>(select * from user) ==> "select * from user"

<nalaginrut>it's done by macro

<CaptainLex>Ahhhh

<nalaginrut>that's ssql

<nalaginrut>anyway, users may choose there fav or hybrid

<nalaginrut>s/there/their

<CaptainLex>So what does the framework do, then?

<nalaginrut>actually, the web-framework is very lightweight, just handle the request, and routing/template

<nalaginrut>others are additional I think

<CaptainLex>Oh, so

<CaptainLex>you'd be implementing FP-RM as an optional feature?

<nalaginrut>yes, RM/template is actually optional for users, they may use others

<nalaginrut>but artanis provides its own

<nalaginrut>since there's no other implementation

<nalaginrut>for now

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Although I admit I wouldn't really know how to make others work with it, so I'm glad you're working onit

<CaptainLex>on it*

<nalaginrut>someday, guildhall has more packages contribution, users may use other template/RM, to work with artanis

<nalaginrut>but for now, it's easy to work with Artanis' additional one

<aoi->nalaginrut: do you have the idea of templates in Artanis ?

<nalaginrut>aoi-: there're two templates

<nalaginrut>in artanis

<CaptainLex>Two?

<nalaginrut>second is the embedded, php like template

<nalaginrut> https://github.com/NalaGinrut/artanis/blob/master/examples/index.tpl

<nalaginrut>choose it as you wish, or hybrid

<nalaginrut>besides, with Guile's local-eval, you may define the things in routing, but use it in TPL

<nalaginrut>I mean routing handler

<nalaginrut>I'll show this magic to implement MVC in my blog-engine

<CaptainLex>Nice!

<nalaginrut>I wish the blog-engine could be easily to use like RoR

<CaptainLex>Wouldn't you want the whole framework to be as easy as RoR?

<nalaginrut>no, actually, for RoR, there would be Glow project (Guile launch on web)

<nalaginrut>but artanis is a lightweight thing to try it

<nalaginrut>then there'd be Glow

<nalaginrut>do the easy things first

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: I can't find any info on Glow?

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: since it's on my TODO

<CaptainLex>Aha! What's the idea?

<nalaginrut>anyway, RMS said he likes Glow idea

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: it's actually Guile on rails

<CaptainLex>Ahhhha a full-fledged framework

<nalaginrut>yes~

*nalaginrut is having lunch...

<CaptainLex>I guess I don't know what kinds of features the larger frameworks have

<CaptainLex>Enjoy! I should be getting to sleep soon

<nalaginrut>I don't know it too, so do artanis is first step

<nalaginrut>when we get enough needs, there'd be more things added

<nalaginrut>finally, it become full-fledged in natural

<CaptainLex>And then you'd rename it Glow?

<nalaginrut>maybe no, the design of artanis is too lightweight

<nalaginrut>maybe redesign at that time

<nalaginrut>but there're many things to be reused from artanis

<CaptainLex>Nice! I like to see other people looking so many steps ahead

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: it'll be cool if you try artanis to write something you like, and feedback/contribute to artanis

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Like I said, I'll try to do my Summer Projects submission in artanis

<CaptainLex>but I can't do anything until June 1!

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: is it constrained? I can't do any coding till June 1?

<nalaginrut>I mean the project I want to try

<nalaginrut>hmm...and I need to polish artanis before June

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Yeah, submissions to Summer Projects need to be written only after June 1

<CaptainLex>(but you can use libraries, like artanis)

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: But also, I am very busy until June 1!

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: is it confirmed that you're participated in guix?

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Not 100%, but very close!

<nalaginrut>and I'm busy also since I'm working on adding Guile to GDB... ahh~so busy summer day...

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: I should know within a few days, plus there official announcements aren't until the end of May

<nalaginrut>hah~enjoy your hacking~

<CaptainLex>to GDB the Guile debugger? That sounds pretty rad!

<CaptainLex>Thanks!

<nalaginrut>;-P

<nalaginrut>no, not to debug Guile, just add Guile as debugging script language to GDB

<nalaginrut>and Guile debugger in GDB is another work could do

<nalaginrut>aoi-: I know less about perl things, but wookie in CL uses the same routing style

<nalaginrut>aoi-: maybe it is what you need

<CaptainLex>well, it is time for me to sleep

<CaptainLex>Good night everyone!

<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: It was a pleasure scheming with you!

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: me too, night!

<aoi->nalaginrut: that sounds good to me

<nalaginrut>aoi-: feedback/bug report/patches welcome

<nalaginrut>;-)

<nalaginrut>and feature requesting

<aoi->one of the things that i do a lot at work is setup redirects from old page paths to their new location

<aoi->so a short cut wat to do that would be handy =)

*aoi- would like to write an engine to do that to replace the crufty old perl one =)

<nalaginrut>aoi-: you just need page redirect?

<nalaginrut>in Artanis, redirect-to does the work, (redirect-to rc "/login")

<aoi->its a feature ;)

<aoi->ok nice

<aoi->at some point i would like to setup an admin page that holds a bunch of them in a table

<nalaginrut>rc is the only parameter passed into routing handler

<aoi->or a nice web admin friendly way so other folks can add and remove them

<nalaginrut>I'll use third-party web admin plugin, there're a lot

<nalaginrut>it's portable, just html+js

<aoi->ok

<aoi->first i need to get my head around guile

<aoi->i'm still quite new to scheme

<nalaginrut>what do you prefer? the web admin

<aoi->something that fits into the web framework

<aoi->prefer something that i can write and understand

<nalaginrut>aoi-: actually, Scheme is easy to learn/use, if not so academic

*aoi- is not an academic

*aoi- will read through the git repo of artanis and examples...

<nalaginrut>hmm, web-admin is not suit to add into web-framework, but could be a new project based on artanis

<aoi->ok

<aoi->my thoughts on a 'webadmin' is a way to manage virtual domains and our idea of subsites

*nalaginrut is not familiar about web front-end, too tricky

<aoi->we have many people editing the one "web site" but many individual sub-sites that they maintain

<nalaginrut>aoi-: is there any example project from other language?

<aoi->we use perl here, but its not published as open source =(

<nalaginrut>hmm...any open sourced one?

<aoi->so much legacy code we do not want to reuse or can't

<aoi->your routing looks like perl/mojolicous

<aoi->=D

<nalaginrut>well, I just need an example

<aoi->example of web admin, not that i am aware of.

<aoi->it is an app that i would need to design carefully as our app is complex and creates apache config files and pushes content from the Dev server to the Production server

*aoi- needs to start on something smaller than that first =)

<nalaginrut>automatically manage the configuration?

<aoi->yeah, for sets of different servers, and apps running behind them

<aoi->it is a mess, and way too complicated

<aoi->our new servers are less complicated

<nalaginrut>well, that's why I need an example, or a list of the needs

<nalaginrut>it's hard to do that in a blind way

<aoi->but we need to rewrite all sorts of apps that don't use this crusty old perl code

<aoi->nalaginrut: understood =)

<Chaos`Eternal>use scsh, man

<Chaos`Eternal>guile-scsh has just released it's 0.2 version, running on top of guile-2.x

<Chaos`Eternal>better than perl

<Chaos`Eternal>for system scripting

<aoi->Chaos`Eternal: scripting is not that same as a web app that allows you to set system config

<aoi->but i see where you are coming from

<Chaos`Eternal>well

<Chaos`Eternal>web apps

<Chaos`Eternal>hmm

<Chaos`Eternal>webmin ?

<aoi->we have a specific up that manages our users and web sites

<aoi->it allows ftp access to put content up and allows a web interface to push content from DEV -> PRd

<aoi->it also manages domains and redirects

<aoi->so its a complicated webapp, db and dozens of scripts run from cron

<nalaginrut>aoi-: sounds like a very old-school stuff

<nalaginrut>and run many years... ;-}

<Chaos`Eternal>嗯

<Chaos`Eternal>en

<Chaos`Eternal>very old school

<b4283>Chaos`Eternal: 漏餡啦

<Chaos`Eternal>:-)

<Chaos`Eternal>failed to switch input system, haha

<nalaginrut>well...

<Chaos`Eternal>so we can create a new channel , guile-zh?

<aoi->nalaginrut: most of last decade yes

<nalaginrut>if there're more guys, maybe guile-zh community

<nalaginrut>but I don't think there're more than three

<Chaos`Eternal>hmm

<aoi->nalaginrut: its artanis support UTF8 ?

<nalaginrut>aoi-: since Guile itself use UTF-8 in default, so I think yes

<nalaginrut>but you may change the charset

<aoi->nalaginrut: ok cool. might pay for me to do some testing =)

<nalaginrut>actually, Guile2 use utf-8 in default

<nalaginrut>aoi-: for a mention, artanis based on guile-2.0.9+

<nalaginrut>no guarantee for older version

<aoi->ok

<aoi->i think i am running 2.0.5

<b4283>excuse me, where can i find guile-scsh

<nalaginrut>aoi-: 2.0.5 lack of many things in web module

<aoi->b4283: try here; http://gitorious.org/guile-scsh

<b4283>thanks

<nalaginrut>2.0.9 is the most stable version for Guile2, and I feel very nice with it

<aoi->b4283: no problems

<nalaginrut>guile2 is going to be mature

<Chaos`Eternal>I will give a seminar on guile-scsh this month

<Chaos`Eternal>in Shanghai

<aoi->nalaginrut: means i'll actually have to build something from source ... i normally use debian packages by default

<aoi->Chaos`Eternal: nice =)

<aoi->Chaos`Eternal: if you are ever in Adelaide, let me know, I can schedule you in for a talk at our monthly tech meet =D

<nalaginrut>aoi-: it's worthy working on a one-click script to build all stuff from scratch, but I don't have time for it

<aoi->nalaginrut: i did try to build 2.0.7 from source, but there were some issues with building some of the dependencies.

<nalaginrut>aoi-: sounds good hacksphere in your city ;-P

<Chaos`Eternal>Adelaide...

<nalaginrut>aoi-: have you tried 2.0.9

<Chaos`Eternal>well, maybe in the future

<nalaginrut>aoi-: yes, guile's dependencies is messy, so a one-click building script is fine

<nalaginrut>since Guile uses many GNU own stuff, anyway, it's GNU official language

<nalaginrut>but for any mainstream distro, next release will include guile-2.0.9 I think

<nalaginrut>I think 2.0.9 MAYBE worthy Artanis being stick to...I haven't found any problem in web for it

<aoi->debian wheezy includes 2.0.5

<aoi->now that wheezy is released as stable, guile 2.0.5 will get more use

<aoi->what is missing in 2.0.5?

<nalaginrut>aoi-: I don't know exactly, but some guys tested Artanis in 2.0.5, something did miss

<nalaginrut>2.0.9 improved many things in web I think

<aoi->ok

<aoi->thats what was missing; bdw-gc

<aoi->the garbage collector

<aoi->hasn't been integrated yet

<nalaginrut>you need libgc-devel or gc-devel

<nalaginrut>use gc-7.2d not higher

<aoi->ok , i have the most recent package instaleld from debian/squeeze which is 6.8

<aoi->but its not finding it =/

<aoi->might have to move development to a new VM based on debian/wheezy

<nalaginrut>did you install all the *-devel?

<nalaginrut>or *-dev

<aoi->yes

<aoi->there seems like a lot of dependencies to install =)

<aoi->like libffi =)

<aoi->unistrings

<aoi->ok, so configure runs on wheezy, but now squeeze.

<aoi->this is ok.

<nalaginrut>yes, and MAYBE newer libtool/autoconf/automake/getext/m4

<nalaginrut>if it's OK, that's good

<nalaginrut>ignore what I listed ;-P

<aoi->i knew that the old debian stable would have problems, its pretty old now

<aoi->=)

<nalaginrut>I've installed 2.0.9 in centOS-6.0

<aoi->ok, so centos 6 is about the same vintage, if not older than squeeze

<nalaginrut>aoi-: http://deuslux.org/index.scm

<nalaginrut>it's a test to run Artanis

<nalaginrut>Artanis + Nginx

<aoi->blog style?

<nalaginrut>it's just blog2.scm

<nalaginrut>in example

*aoi- likes nginx

<nalaginrut>anyway, not the blog-engine I'll do in Lisp contest

<aoi->we use Nginx -> varnish -> apache -> mod_perl + mod_php

<nalaginrut>this is a simple blog example in Artanis

<aoi->nalaginrut: nice work

<nalaginrut>well, we don't need mod_lisp

<nalaginrut>Nginx has reverse proxy

<aoi->nalaginrut: yeah, but forwards to an internal process

<aoi->is that process threaded? or is it async?

<nalaginrut>aoi-: Artanis uses Guile inner server which is threaded currently

<nalaginrut>but we'll have ethread later

<aoi->ok, nice

<nalaginrut>anyway, since Guile has good delimited-continuation support, I'll start my own Actor-model project for an async server

<aoi->at some point i would like to use ZeroMQ or write something similar in guile

<nalaginrut>yes, there's zmq-guil

<nalaginrut>guile-zmq

<aoi->is that native?

<aoi->or a client library wrapper?

<nalaginrut>it's a wrapper

<aoi->ok

<nalaginrut>for zeromq

<nalaginrut>and I planed to use zmq for my actor-model

<nalaginrut>anyway, when you uses Artanis, don't care about the server, I'll take care of it ;-P

<nalaginrut>wingo: heya~

<nalaginrut>wingo: how about ethread?

<nalaginrut>maybe it's bad question, when you're working on ethread I asked 'how about rtl', and now you're working on rtl...

<aoi->ok, so 2.0.9 is installed \\0/

<nalaginrut>nice!

<aoi->just took a while on the laptop =)

<nalaginrut>sounds you have a cool machine

<aoi->"server" at home was built in 2004!

<aoi->server at work was built 2011

<aoi->1 core vs 24 cores ;)

<aoi->1gb ram vs 128gb

<nalaginrut>hmm...

<aoi->my aim is to get this all working on a raspberry pi with 512MB of RAM

<nalaginrut>aoi-: that's my aim to run artanis in raspberryPI, for a home-site

<aoi->cool

<nalaginrut>but I have no time to try it

<aoi->nalaginrut: which part of the world are you in?

<nalaginrut>I believe one definitely needs cross-compiling for Giule

<nalaginrut>guile

<nalaginrut>aoi-: I'm in China

<aoi->ok, cool, i'm in australia

<nalaginrut>shen zhen

<nalaginrut>ah~

<aoi->nalaginrut: even i've heard of shen zhen!

<aoi->=)

<nalaginrut>there'are many guys here in Australia

<aoi->lots of australians in shen zhen ?

<nalaginrut>and one of my friend in our hackerspace comes from shenzhen

<nalaginrut>aoi-: yes

<nalaginrut>lot of them in shenzhen

<nalaginrut>but their aim is open hardware

<aoi->no surprise really

<aoi->yeah

<aoi->some guys from our hacker space have been to shenzhen

<nalaginrut>sorry, comes from Australia

<nalaginrut>yeah, and maybe you know him, Mitch Davids

<aoi->i have heard of mitch, not had the chance to meet him though

<nalaginrut>hah~seems he is famous there

<aoi->i believe he was at Linux.Conf.Au this year too =)

<nalaginrut>ah

<nalaginrut>yes, he mentioned that conf to me

<aoi->linux conf is always wonderfuil

<aoi->thats why i am working with folks here in Adelaide to run one in 2015 or 2016

<nalaginrut>oh~nice

<nalaginrut>we don't have linux conf in shenzhen

<aoi->i have to head home now

<nalaginrut>only LUG and hackspace meeting

<aoi->LUGs are good

<nalaginrut>aoi-: OK

<aoi->i will be bvack in a couple of hours

<aoi->laters

<nalaginrut>see you

<wingo>nalaginrut: on the back burner for now :)

<nalaginrut>nice~

<aoi->ok, now working my way through the dependencies for guile-dbi =)

<nalaginrut>aoi-: use the latest

<nalaginrut>and the dpd

<aoi->dpd?

<nalaginrut>dbd

<aoi->i have downloaded the latest tarballs

<aoi->ah yes, building now

<aoi->dbi and dbd-postgres =)

<nalaginrut>and for testing examples, you need dbd-mysql

<nalaginrut>but you may choose dbd-postgres for your own

<aoi->ok

<nalaginrut>examples are all for mysql

*aoi- groks

<aoi->ok

<aoi->hmm

<aoi->../../include/guile-dbi/guile-dbi.h:26:22: fatal error: libguile.h: No such file or directory

<aoi->i am using this to configure with;

<aoi->./configure --includedir=/apps/usr/guile/include/guile/2.0/libguile/ --prefix=/apps/usr/guile/

<aoi->but the include path isn't appearing in the arguments to gcc

<nalaginrut>well, I think you just need --prefix=/usr not /usr/guile

<aoi->i have my web environment in /apps/

<nalaginrut>then /app/usr

<aoi->installing guile has put that missing include file here;

<CaptainLex>Hello again you two!

<aoi->/apps/usr/guile/include/guile/2.0/libguile.h

<nalaginrut>hmm...try pass it with CFLAGS

<aoi->ok

<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: heya

<nalaginrut>I have to go in few minutes, tonight is our hackspace party

<aoi->nalaginrut: thanks for you help =)

<nalaginrut>aoi-: is it solved?

***nalaginrut is now known as nalaginrut-leavi

***nalaginrut-leavi is now known as nalaginrut-left

<aoi->no

<aoi->libtool doesn't appear to be passing the arguments in

<dsmith_>aoi-, Guile does run on the rpi nicely. Takes a long time to build though.

<dsmith_>aoi-, The libgc in debian is not good enough for 2.0.9 however. Must build that from source

<microcode>it'd be interesting if netsurf were to use Guile's ECMAScript implementation

<wingo>guile's es impl needs love

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<dsmith>wingo, Isn't someone working on that? OR was it lua?

<wingo>someone might be working on it

<wingo>i mentioned it

<wingo>but i lack the godly power to conjure code into being with words

<wingo>if wishes were fishes we'd have a lovely aquarium :)

<dsmith>wingo, heh

<dsmith>wingo, Not what I meant though. istr someone has another git repo. Has a 3 letter nick in here.

<wingo>cool!

<dsmith>But then again, my memory.....

<wingo>sneek: dsmith's memory

<wingo>sneek: where is dsmith's memory

<wingo>wat

*dsmith verbalizes laughing sounds

<wingo>:)

<CaptainLex|Uni>Morning guilers!

<developernotes>Good morning to you!

<wingo>man, debugging information. what a pain...

<developernotes>wingo what are you trying to do?

<wingo> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.guile.devel/16330/focus=16353

<developernotes>ah, very cool - thanks for all the hard work!

<wingo>happy hacking :)

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<mgsk>Can I disabled the "note: blah newer than compiled..."? I tried --no-auto-compile.

<thorwil>ouch. guile-clutter-1.10.0/examples/./hello-behaviours.scm:42:16: In procedure module-lookup: Unbound variable: clutter-stage-get-default

<wingo>is that the first error?

<thorwil>wingo: here's the full thing: https://www.refheap.com/paste/14360

<cordawyn>hello everybody!

<cordawyn>could anyone help me with a simple (I hope) thing with macros?

<cordawyn>there are two macros, one calling another, and I just cannot figure out which of the available patterns it is supposed to match.

<wingo>sounds like somehow your environment is borked

<wingo>are you running uninstalled?

<cordawyn>here's the gist: https://gist.github.com/cordawyn/0ea8cc1727e14857eecf

<wingo>that is a huge macro, i don't have time to grok it :)

<wingo>did you see joe marshall's syntax-rules page?

<cordawyn>yes, I think so

<thorwil>wingo: guile-cairo/gnome-platform/clutter build from source, installed to /usr. guile 2.0 as packaged, though

<wingo> http://hipster.home.xs4all.nl/lib/scheme/gauche/define-syntax-primer.txt

<wingo>humm

<wingo>thorwil: i would run guile-gnome-2 and see if you can import (gnome clutter)

<wingo>and see if <clutter-stage> resolves to anything

<thorwil>the other 2 examples run. though i don't see what's to see in hello-transition

<cordawyn>thanks wingo. I hope that primer helps somehow, although I've read plenty of that stuff already.

<wingo>iiuc hello-implicit is the one to use

<wingo>cordawyn: there are tricks for debugging syntax-rules macros there

*wingo wanders off for a bit

<cordawyn>oh

<cordawyn>ok, time to read :)

<thorwil>wingo: in guile-gnome-2, after importing gnome-2, i can import (gnome clutter)

*thorwil wonders what to do about guile-gnome-2 and geiser

<wingo>thorwil: you can try --fresh-auto-compile, if it fixes anything

<wingo>guile-gnome-2 is the same as guile, but with (gnome-2) imported

<thorwil>after looking at the man page, i assumed it was a little more

<wingo>ah

<wingo>ok i see how

<wingo>*now

<wingo>thorwil: probably what happened was that those interfaces are deprecated. i think the whole behaviors thing is deprecated

<wingo>and i rashly took the opportunity to just remove them from 1.10

<wingo>since the clutter module didn't have any stability commitment.

<wingo>NEWS is terrible in that module

<wingo>oh wells

<wingo>haha, the last time i touched that module was a year ago today :)

<thorwil>ok. no worries, as all i'm looking for is a base from where i can start exploring guile in combination with clutter. as the docs leave me puzzled on how to even draw a rectangle

<wingo>the README has a note

<thorwil>is there stuff involved that will work in a script, but not from a repl?

<wingo>i don't think so

<wingo>of course a main loop conflicts with a repl

<wingo>clutter wants the main loop to run

<wingo>the best way to use a repl with clutter is to use a script with --listen

<wingo>or a repl with --listen

<thorwil>after an excursion reading about dotted pairs ... i now have a minimal script and managed to change the stage background color from geiser. thank you, wingo!

<civodul>Hello Guilers!

<wingo>heya civodul, and good night!

*wingo has a mail about debugging things to send tomorrow; just spent some quality time with the whiteboard :)

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2013-05-09.log