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<mark_weaver>not that I know of
<mark_weaver>sure, it could be fixed fairly easily.
<mark_weaver>but right now it works one character at a time.
<mark_weaver>if it's fixed, it would be nice to do so without making it too slow though.
<civodul>yeah but string-locale-upcase does it right, we just have to do the same
*civodul -> zZz
<wingo>evening, mark_weaver
<wingo>a brief one anyway
*wingo zzz soon
<mark_weaver>hi wingo!
<mark_weaver>have a good sleep :)
***Gues_____ is now known as Guest25947
***zacts is now known as yoda`
***yoda` is now known as zacts
***sneek_ is now known as sneek
<nalaginrut>morning guilers~
<CaptainLex>Morning nalaginrut!
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: heya~
<aoi^>hi guys
<aoi^>i've been starting to look at stuff like wookie on CL and wondering if there is something similar on guile?
<nalaginrut>aoi^: you need an async-server
<nalaginrut>aoi^: or you just need web-framework with sinatra like route?
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Is there a stable webstack for Scheme?
<CaptainLex>I was thinking of using compojure for my Lisp In Summer Projects submission, but I'd love to use Scheme instead
<nalaginrut>I've no idea about a stable one, maybe guile-www? and there's an unstable wip one:
<nalaginrut>I'm working on it ;-)
<CaptainLex>Hmm, these look like they require more server-side knowledge than I had hoped for
<CaptainLex>And it is probably a good idea to at least learn clojure if I ever hope to be employed
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Not to belittle your accomplishment
<CaptainLex>By giving Guile the libraries and applications that make it a real-world development choice, you are doing the Lord's own work :D
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: that's fine, it's fun for me
<nalaginrut>I just do what I love
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: If you would like to be more helpful, could you list the things you expected?
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: I'm definitely not at a place where I could give you that kind of feedback, I'm afraid. Perhaps, indeed, I spoke too quickly
<aoi^>nalaginrut: i was thinking about an async layer like clasync that wookie uses, yes
<aoi^>nalaginrut: but doesn't have to be
<nalaginrut>aoi^: so you just need sinatra?
<aoi^>ok, i will have a look at that
<nalaginrut>aoi^: well, sinatra is for Ruby, I mean sinatra like route
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: I once thought that all I ever needed in a web framework was routing and layouts
<aoi^>ok, i did a little hacking on apps with Mojolicious on Perl
<aoi^>sort of like that style of framework
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: So maybe that's all I do need!
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: there's routing and template in artanis, but session & cookie is not completed, and I'm working on relational mapping
<nalaginrut>anyway, session & cookie is almost done...
<aoi^>session and cookie isn't that difficult to add ?
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Well, if I decided to try to make a website with it this summer, would I be able to bug you for support? ;)
<nalaginrut>there is, but something needed
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: that's very greate
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: I need any feedback to improve it
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Are you aware of Lisp In Summer Projects?
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: yes, I know it, I'm planing to do a blog-engine for that, based on artanis, so you may choose another
<CaptainLex>CaptainLex: I was planning on doing a very specific website that was a database for the 99 problems and their solutions in various functional languages
<aoi^>nalaginrut: that sounds really useful =)
<nalaginrut>I'll do more things auto-generated, not barely Artanis
<CaptainLex>highlight nalaginrut
<nalaginrut>thanks guys~
<nalaginrut>I need more guys to do web things in Scheme, so that I can talk/learn things from each other
<aoi^>nalaginrut: yeah, me too =)
<CaptainLex>aoi^: Do you know about Lisp In Summer Projects also, then?
<aoi^>CaptainLex: no, have not heard of it before
<aoi^>i assume summer in the northern hemisphere?
<CaptainLex>Indeed, that summer
<nalaginrut>hah, we should talk about Lisp in summer projects, in case we choose the same thing to try ;-P
<nalaginrut>or just be a team?
<aoi^>so, winter projects ;)
<CaptainLex>but (mostly) global participation!
<nalaginrut>I don't know if it permit
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: I'm not sure that it is allowed, but I like the idea of all of us working on different projects and bouncing off each other
<nalaginrut>if we could be a team, I could stick to the web-framework itself
*aoi^ will have all next week to hack on code while on holiday =)
<aoi^>specifically i'd like to get something webby and db driven...
*aoi^ would like to use more lisp/scheme/guile at work
*CaptainLex gets to code in Scheme all summer long
<nalaginrut>but anyway, a global participation sounds cool, but not easy, maybe next time hmm..
<aoi^>CaptainLex: summer is that week between chrismas and new years =/
<aoi^>as in thats my typical holidays for the year =P
<CaptainLex>aoi^: :(
<nalaginrut>I think it's June to September?
<CaptainLex>I'm in my last summer before graduating from university
<CaptainLex>and it looks like I'll be doing Google Summer of Code!
<aoi^>but this weenend is mothers day, so i am taking time off to see family and travel a bit and hack on code =)
<aoi^>CaptainLex: nice =)
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: did you decide what to try in SoC?
<aoi^>nalaginrut: but we can hack on code for web apps any time =D
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: I'll be packaging GNOME for Guix
<aoi^>whats guix?
<CaptainLex>aoi^: It's package manager (and, eventually, a distro) written in Guile
<CaptainLex>It's a Guiled up Nix, if you know it
<aoi^>sounds interesting.
<aoi^>my end goal using guile is to write a number of ncurses and web apps for an embedded platorm
<aoi^>at this stage most probably on the raspberry pi
<aoi^>mobile being core; vehicle/bicycle/walking
<aoi^>also network visualisation is part of that...
<nalaginrut>aoi^: YES! we can! And I want to finish Artanis as a stable web-framework
<aoi^>so here;
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: How long do you think that would take? How much is left?
<nalaginrut>the genesis is just I want to build my own site/blog in pure Scheme way
***aoi^ is now known as aoi-
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: artanis is guile potluck project, it just took 1 week to be done, and I'm improving it these months
<nalaginrut>since there's no users before, I just do it slowly
<aoi->nalaginrut: you say on the git hub page; "sinatra like style route"
<aoi->are routes like the Mojolocious routeS?
*aoi- hasn't heard of sinatra before, so ..
<nalaginrut>I think the rest of work is to make sure session&cookie work fine, and relational mapping
<aoi->relational mapping?
<aoi->to the database layer?
<nalaginrut>others is OK I think. And I think it's all basic for a web-framework
<CaptainLex>I'm with aoi-: what do you mean by relational mapping?
<nalaginrut>aoi-: yes, we use ORM often, but I'd like to try a way for FP-RM
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: do you know Object relational mapping?
<nalaginrut>it's an abstract for database
<aoi->what is FP-RM ?
<nalaginrut>aoi-: it's my idea, just drop object-oriented, just FP way
<aoi->FP == functional programming ?
<nalaginrut>and another interesting thing maybe ssql
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: I understand it as a database scheme; I don't know what needs to be implemented in the framework itself
<CaptainLex>You mean, as a means of bypassing sql programming?
<nalaginrut>(select * from user) ==> "select * from user"
<nalaginrut>it's done by macro
<nalaginrut>that's ssql
<nalaginrut>anyway, users may choose there fav or hybrid
<CaptainLex>So what does the framework do, then?
<nalaginrut>actually, the web-framework is very lightweight, just handle the request, and routing/template
<nalaginrut>others are additional I think
<CaptainLex>Oh, so
<CaptainLex>you'd be implementing FP-RM as an optional feature?
<nalaginrut>yes, RM/template is actually optional for users, they may use others
<nalaginrut>but artanis provides its own
<nalaginrut>since there's no other implementation
<nalaginrut>for now
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Although I admit I wouldn't really know how to make others work with it, so I'm glad you're working onit
<CaptainLex>on it*
<nalaginrut>someday, guildhall has more packages contribution, users may use other template/RM, to work with artanis
<nalaginrut>but for now, it's easy to work with Artanis' additional one
<aoi->nalaginrut: do you have the idea of templates in Artanis ?
<nalaginrut>aoi-: there're two templates
<nalaginrut>in artanis
<nalaginrut>one is sxml, '(html (body (@ (bg "asfd.jpg"))) ==> <html> <body bg="asdf.jpg"> </body> </html>
<nalaginrut>second is the embedded, php like template
<nalaginrut>choose it as you wish, or hybrid
<nalaginrut>besides, with Guile's local-eval, you may define the things in routing, but use it in TPL
<nalaginrut>I mean routing handler
<nalaginrut>I'll show this magic to implement MVC in my blog-engine
<nalaginrut>I wish the blog-engine could be easily to use like RoR
<CaptainLex>Wouldn't you want the whole framework to be as easy as RoR?
<nalaginrut>no, actually, for RoR, there would be Glow project (Guile launch on web)
<nalaginrut>but artanis is a lightweight thing to try it
<nalaginrut>then there'd be Glow
<nalaginrut>do the easy things first
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: I can't find any info on Glow?
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: since it's on my TODO
<CaptainLex>Aha! What's the idea?
<nalaginrut>anyway, RMS said he likes Glow idea
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: it's actually Guile on rails
<CaptainLex>Ahhhha a full-fledged framework
*nalaginrut is having lunch...
<CaptainLex>I guess I don't know what kinds of features the larger frameworks have
<CaptainLex>Enjoy! I should be getting to sleep soon
<nalaginrut>I don't know it too, so do artanis is first step
<nalaginrut>when we get enough needs, there'd be more things added
<nalaginrut>finally, it become full-fledged in natural
<CaptainLex>And then you'd rename it Glow?
<nalaginrut>maybe no, the design of artanis is too lightweight
<nalaginrut>maybe redesign at that time
<nalaginrut>but there're many things to be reused from artanis
<CaptainLex>Nice! I like to see other people looking so many steps ahead
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: it'll be cool if you try artanis to write something you like, and feedback/contribute to artanis
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Like I said, I'll try to do my Summer Projects submission in artanis
<CaptainLex>but I can't do anything until June 1!
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: is it constrained? I can't do any coding till June 1?
<nalaginrut>I mean the project I want to try
<nalaginrut>hmm...and I need to polish artanis before June
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Yeah, submissions to Summer Projects need to be written only after June 1
<CaptainLex>(but you can use libraries, like artanis)
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: But also, I am very busy until June 1!
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: is it confirmed that you're participated in guix?
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: Not 100%, but very close!
<nalaginrut>and I'm busy also since I'm working on adding Guile to GDB... ahh~so busy summer day...
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: I should know within a few days, plus there official announcements aren't until the end of May
<nalaginrut>hah~enjoy your hacking~
<CaptainLex>to GDB the Guile debugger? That sounds pretty rad!
<nalaginrut>no, not to debug Guile, just add Guile as debugging script language to GDB
<nalaginrut>and Guile debugger in GDB is another work could do
<nalaginrut>aoi-: I know less about perl things, but wookie in CL uses the same routing style
<nalaginrut>aoi-: maybe it is what you need
<CaptainLex>well, it is time for me to sleep
<CaptainLex>Good night everyone!
<CaptainLex>nalaginrut: It was a pleasure scheming with you!
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: me too, night!
<aoi->nalaginrut: that sounds good to me
<nalaginrut>aoi-: feedback/bug report/patches welcome
<nalaginrut>and feature requesting
<aoi->one of the things that i do a lot at work is setup redirects from old page paths to their new location
<aoi->so a short cut wat to do that would be handy =)
*aoi- would like to write an engine to do that to replace the crufty old perl one =)
<nalaginrut>aoi-: you just need page redirect?
<nalaginrut>in Artanis, redirect-to does the work, (redirect-to rc "/login")
<aoi->its a feature ;)
<aoi->ok nice
<aoi->at some point i would like to setup an admin page that holds a bunch of them in a table
<nalaginrut>rc is the only parameter passed into routing handler
<aoi->or a nice web admin friendly way so other folks can add and remove them
<nalaginrut>I'll use third-party web admin plugin, there're a lot
<nalaginrut>it's portable, just html+js
<aoi->first i need to get my head around guile
<aoi->i'm still quite new to scheme
<nalaginrut>what do you prefer? the web admin
<aoi->something that fits into the web framework
<aoi->prefer something that i can write and understand
<nalaginrut>aoi-: actually, Scheme is easy to learn/use, if not so academic
*aoi- is not an academic
*aoi- will read through the git repo of artanis and examples...
<nalaginrut>hmm, web-admin is not suit to add into web-framework, but could be a new project based on artanis
<aoi->my thoughts on a 'webadmin' is a way to manage virtual domains and our idea of subsites
*nalaginrut is not familiar about web front-end, too tricky
<aoi->we have many people editing the one "web site" but many individual sub-sites that they maintain
<nalaginrut>aoi-: is there any example project from other language?
<aoi->we use perl here, but its not published as open source =(
<nalaginrut>hmm...any open sourced one?
<aoi->so much legacy code we do not want to reuse or can't
<aoi->your routing looks like perl/mojolicous
<nalaginrut>well, I just need an example
<aoi->example of web admin, not that i am aware of.
<aoi->it is an app that i would need to design carefully as our app is complex and creates apache config files and pushes content from the Dev server to the Production server
*aoi- needs to start on something smaller than that first =)
<nalaginrut>automatically manage the configuration?
<aoi->yeah, for sets of different servers, and apps running behind them
<aoi->it is a mess, and way too complicated
<aoi->our new servers are less complicated
<nalaginrut>well, that's why I need an example, or a list of the needs
<nalaginrut>it's hard to do that in a blind way
<aoi->but we need to rewrite all sorts of apps that don't use this crusty old perl code
<aoi->nalaginrut: understood =)
<Chaos`Eternal>use scsh, man
<Chaos`Eternal>guile-scsh has just released it's 0.2 version, running on top of guile-2.x
<Chaos`Eternal>better than perl
<Chaos`Eternal>for system scripting
<aoi->Chaos`Eternal: scripting is not that same as a web app that allows you to set system config
<aoi->but i see where you are coming from
<Chaos`Eternal>web apps
<Chaos`Eternal>webmin ?
<aoi->we have a specific up that manages our users and web sites
<aoi->it allows ftp access to put content up and allows a web interface to push content from DEV -> PRd
<aoi->it also manages domains and redirects
<aoi->so its a complicated webapp, db and dozens of scripts run from cron
<nalaginrut>aoi-: sounds like a very old-school stuff
<nalaginrut>and run many years... ;-}
<Chaos`Eternal>very old school
<b4283>Chaos`Eternal: 漏餡啦
<Chaos`Eternal>failed to switch input system, haha
<Chaos`Eternal>so we can create a new channel , guile-zh?
<aoi->nalaginrut: most of last decade yes
<nalaginrut>if there're more guys, maybe guile-zh community
<nalaginrut>but I don't think there're more than three
<aoi->nalaginrut: its artanis support UTF8 ?
<nalaginrut>aoi-: since Guile itself use UTF-8 in default, so I think yes
<nalaginrut>but you may change the charset
<aoi->nalaginrut: ok cool. might pay for me to do some testing =)
<nalaginrut>actually, Guile2 use utf-8 in default
<nalaginrut>aoi-: for a mention, artanis based on guile-2.0.9+
<nalaginrut>no guarantee for older version
<aoi->i think i am running 2.0.5
<b4283>excuse me, where can i find guile-scsh
<nalaginrut>aoi-: 2.0.5 lack of many things in web module
<aoi->b4283: try here;
<nalaginrut>2.0.9 is the most stable version for Guile2, and I feel very nice with it
<aoi->b4283: no problems
<nalaginrut>guile2 is going to be mature
<Chaos`Eternal>I will give a seminar on guile-scsh this month
<Chaos`Eternal>in Shanghai
<aoi->nalaginrut: means i'll actually have to build something from source ... i normally use debian packages by default
<aoi->Chaos`Eternal: nice =)
<aoi->Chaos`Eternal: if you are ever in Adelaide, let me know, I can schedule you in for a talk at our monthly tech meet =D
<nalaginrut>aoi-: it's worthy working on a one-click script to build all stuff from scratch, but I don't have time for it
<aoi->nalaginrut: i did try to build 2.0.7 from source, but there were some issues with building some of the dependencies.
<nalaginrut>aoi-: sounds good hacksphere in your city ;-P
<nalaginrut>aoi-: have you tried 2.0.9
<Chaos`Eternal>well, maybe in the future
<nalaginrut>aoi-: yes, guile's dependencies is messy, so a one-click building script is fine
<nalaginrut>since Guile uses many GNU own stuff, anyway, it's GNU official language
<nalaginrut>but for any mainstream distro, next release will include guile-2.0.9 I think
<nalaginrut>I think 2.0.9 MAYBE worthy Artanis being stick to...I haven't found any problem in web for it
<aoi->debian wheezy includes 2.0.5
<aoi->now that wheezy is released as stable, guile 2.0.5 will get more use
<aoi->what is missing in 2.0.5?
<nalaginrut>aoi-: I don't know exactly, but some guys tested Artanis in 2.0.5, something did miss
<nalaginrut>2.0.9 improved many things in web I think
<aoi->thats what was missing; bdw-gc
<aoi->the garbage collector
<aoi->hasn't been integrated yet
<nalaginrut>you need libgc-devel or gc-devel
<nalaginrut>use gc-7.2d not higher
<aoi->ok , i have the most recent package instaleld from debian/squeeze which is 6.8
<aoi->but its not finding it =/
<aoi->might have to move development to a new VM based on debian/wheezy
<nalaginrut>did you install all the *-devel?
<nalaginrut>or *-dev
<aoi->there seems like a lot of dependencies to install =)
<aoi->like libffi =)
<aoi->ok, so configure runs on wheezy, but now squeeze.
<aoi->this is ok.
<nalaginrut>yes, and MAYBE newer libtool/autoconf/automake/getext/m4
<nalaginrut>if it's OK, that's good
<nalaginrut>ignore what I listed ;-P
<aoi->i knew that the old debian stable would have problems, its pretty old now
<nalaginrut>I've installed 2.0.9 in centOS-6.0
<aoi->ok, so centos 6 is about the same vintage, if not older than squeeze
<nalaginrut>it's a test to run Artanis
<nalaginrut>Artanis + Nginx
<aoi->blog style?
<nalaginrut>it's just blog2.scm
<nalaginrut>in example
*aoi- likes nginx
<nalaginrut>anyway, not the blog-engine I'll do in Lisp contest
<aoi->we use Nginx -> varnish -> apache -> mod_perl + mod_php
<nalaginrut>this is a simple blog example in Artanis
<aoi->nalaginrut: nice work
<nalaginrut>well, we don't need mod_lisp
<nalaginrut>Nginx has reverse proxy
<aoi->nalaginrut: yeah, but forwards to an internal process
<aoi->is that process threaded? or is it async?
<nalaginrut>aoi-: Artanis uses Guile inner server which is threaded currently
<nalaginrut>but we'll have ethread later
<aoi->ok, nice
<nalaginrut>anyway, since Guile has good delimited-continuation support, I'll start my own Actor-model project for an async server
<aoi->at some point i would like to use ZeroMQ or write something similar in guile
<nalaginrut>yes, there's zmq-guil
<aoi->is that native?
<aoi->or a client library wrapper?
<nalaginrut>it's a wrapper
<nalaginrut>for zeromq
<nalaginrut>and I planed to use zmq for my actor-model
<nalaginrut>anyway, when you uses Artanis, don't care about the server, I'll take care of it ;-P
<nalaginrut>wingo: heya~
<nalaginrut>wingo: how about ethread?
<nalaginrut>maybe it's bad question, when you're working on ethread I asked 'how about rtl', and now you're working on rtl...
<aoi->ok, so 2.0.9 is installed \\0/
<aoi->just took a while on the laptop =)
<nalaginrut>sounds you have a cool machine
<aoi->"server" at home was built in 2004!
<aoi->server at work was built 2011
<aoi->1 core vs 24 cores ;)
<aoi->1gb ram vs 128gb
<aoi->my aim is to get this all working on a raspberry pi with 512MB of RAM
<nalaginrut>aoi-: that's my aim to run artanis in raspberryPI, for a home-site
<nalaginrut>but I have no time to try it
<aoi->nalaginrut: which part of the world are you in?
<nalaginrut>I believe one definitely needs cross-compiling for Giule
<nalaginrut>aoi-: I'm in China
<aoi->ok, cool, i'm in australia
<nalaginrut>shen zhen
<aoi->nalaginrut: even i've heard of shen zhen!
<nalaginrut>there'are many guys here in Australia
<aoi->lots of australians in shen zhen ?
<nalaginrut>and one of my friend in our hackerspace comes from shenzhen
<nalaginrut>aoi-: yes
<nalaginrut>lot of them in shenzhen
<nalaginrut>but their aim is open hardware
<aoi->no surprise really
<aoi->some guys from our hacker space have been to shenzhen
<nalaginrut>sorry, comes from Australia
<nalaginrut>yeah, and maybe you know him, Mitch Davids
<aoi->i have heard of mitch, not had the chance to meet him though
<nalaginrut>hah~seems he is famous there
<aoi->i believe he was at Linux.Conf.Au this year too =)
<nalaginrut>yes, he mentioned that conf to me
<aoi->linux conf is always wonderfuil
<aoi->thats why i am working with folks here in Adelaide to run one in 2015 or 2016
<nalaginrut>we don't have linux conf in shenzhen
<aoi->i have to head home now
<nalaginrut>only LUG and hackspace meeting
<aoi->LUGs are good
<nalaginrut>aoi-: OK
<aoi->i will be bvack in a couple of hours
<nalaginrut>see you
<wingo>nalaginrut: on the back burner for now :)
<aoi->ok, now working my way through the dependencies for guile-dbi =)
<nalaginrut>aoi-: use the latest
<nalaginrut>and the dpd
<aoi->i have downloaded the latest tarballs
<aoi->ah yes, building now
<aoi->dbi and dbd-postgres =)
<nalaginrut>and for testing examples, you need dbd-mysql
<nalaginrut>but you may choose dbd-postgres for your own
<nalaginrut>examples are all for mysql
*aoi- groks
<aoi->../../include/guile-dbi/guile-dbi.h:26:22: fatal error: libguile.h: No such file or directory
<aoi->i am using this to configure with;
<aoi->./configure --includedir=/apps/usr/guile/include/guile/2.0/libguile/ --prefix=/apps/usr/guile/
<aoi->but the include path isn't appearing in the arguments to gcc
<nalaginrut>well, I think you just need --prefix=/usr not /usr/guile
<aoi->i have my web environment in /apps/
<nalaginrut>then /app/usr
<aoi->installing guile has put that missing include file here;
<CaptainLex>Hello again you two!
<nalaginrut>hmm...try pass it with CFLAGS
<nalaginrut>CaptainLex: heya
<nalaginrut>I have to go in few minutes, tonight is our hackspace party
<aoi->nalaginrut: thanks for you help =)
<nalaginrut>aoi-: is it solved?
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<aoi->libtool doesn't appear to be passing the arguments in
<dsmith_>aoi-, Guile does run on the rpi nicely. Takes a long time to build though.
<dsmith_>aoi-, The libgc in debian is not good enough for 2.0.9 however. Must build that from source
<microcode>it'd be interesting if netsurf were to use Guile's ECMAScript implementation
<wingo>guile's es impl needs love
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<dsmith>wingo, Isn't someone working on that? OR was it lua?
<wingo>someone might be working on it
<wingo>i mentioned it
<wingo>but i lack the godly power to conjure code into being with words
<wingo>if wishes were fishes we'd have a lovely aquarium :)
<dsmith>wingo, heh
<dsmith>wingo, Not what I meant though. istr someone has another git repo. Has a 3 letter nick in here.
<dsmith>But then again, my memory.....
<wingo>sneek: dsmith's memory
<wingo>sneek: where is dsmith's memory
*dsmith verbalizes laughing sounds
<CaptainLex|Uni>Morning guilers!
<developernotes>Good morning to you!
<wingo>man, debugging information. what a pain...
<developernotes>wingo what are you trying to do?
<developernotes>ah, very cool - thanks for all the hard work!
<wingo>happy hacking :)
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<mgsk>Can I disabled the "note: blah newer than compiled..."? I tried --no-auto-compile.
<thorwil>ouch. guile-clutter-1.10.0/examples/./hello-behaviours.scm:42:16: In procedure module-lookup: Unbound variable: clutter-stage-get-default
<wingo>is that the first error?
<thorwil>wingo: here's the full thing:
<cordawyn>hello everybody!
<cordawyn>could anyone help me with a simple (I hope) thing with macros?
<cordawyn>there are two macros, one calling another, and I just cannot figure out which of the available patterns it is supposed to match.
<wingo>sounds like somehow your environment is borked
<wingo>are you running uninstalled?
<cordawyn>here's the gist:
<wingo>that is a huge macro, i don't have time to grok it :)
<wingo>did you see joe marshall's syntax-rules page?
<cordawyn>yes, I think so
<thorwil>wingo: guile-cairo/gnome-platform/clutter build from source, installed to /usr. guile 2.0 as packaged, though
<wingo>thorwil: i would run guile-gnome-2 and see if you can import (gnome clutter)
<wingo>and see if <clutter-stage> resolves to anything
<thorwil>the other 2 examples run. though i don't see what's to see in hello-transition
<cordawyn>thanks wingo. I hope that primer helps somehow, although I've read plenty of that stuff already.
<wingo>iiuc hello-implicit is the one to use
<wingo>cordawyn: there are tricks for debugging syntax-rules macros there
*wingo wanders off for a bit
<cordawyn>ok, time to read :)
<thorwil>wingo: in guile-gnome-2, after importing gnome-2, i can import (gnome clutter)
*thorwil wonders what to do about guile-gnome-2 and geiser
<wingo>thorwil: you can try --fresh-auto-compile, if it fixes anything
<wingo>guile-gnome-2 is the same as guile, but with (gnome-2) imported
<thorwil>after looking at the man page, i assumed it was a little more
<wingo>ok i see how
<wingo>thorwil: probably what happened was that those interfaces are deprecated. i think the whole behaviors thing is deprecated
<wingo>and i rashly took the opportunity to just remove them from 1.10
<wingo>since the clutter module didn't have any stability commitment.
<wingo>NEWS is terrible in that module
<wingo>oh wells
<wingo>haha, the last time i touched that module was a year ago today :)
<thorwil>ok. no worries, as all i'm looking for is a base from where i can start exploring guile in combination with clutter. as the docs leave me puzzled on how to even draw a rectangle
<wingo>the README has a note
<thorwil>is there stuff involved that will work in a script, but not from a repl?
<wingo>i don't think so
<wingo>of course a main loop conflicts with a repl
<wingo>clutter wants the main loop to run
<wingo>the best way to use a repl with clutter is to use a script with --listen
<wingo>or a repl with --listen
<thorwil>after an excursion reading about dotted pairs ... i now have a minimal script and managed to change the stage background color from geiser. thank you, wingo!
<civodul>Hello Guilers!
<wingo>heya civodul, and good night!
*wingo has a mail about debugging things to send tomorrow; just spent some quality time with the whiteboard :)
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