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2026-10-15.log
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<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> jackdk: do you know if this uses some prebuilt files? <jackdk>It seems to use the configure scripts as-is, which is a no-no under strict bootstrapping rules, but from my reading there's been a lot of work to not do that (e.g. it deletes 7.4.2's utils/ghc-pwd/dist-boot and 9.0.2's libraries/containers/.../dist-install. It patches Hugs to support pattern guards and then runs MicroHS on Hugs to generate C <roconnor>Though the patches seem to be computer generated. :) <jackdk>Yes, much of the nix code is too. So it get it over the line all those patches will need to be vetted and understood, and the build failure I'm hitting needs will need addressing <jackdk>There are also some places where it merely checks fixpoints, see decision D7 <jackdk>I haven't dug into all those details yet <jackdk>I think what's happening is that there's an external parser generated by happy but then it does a fixed-point check that the same parser comes out when it has microhs running over it? Again, not quite the strict bootstrapping gold star but still getting to even this point I thought was a few years away <aggi>good! yet out of curiosity: does this funding suffice to sustain a living? <aggi>and, could the tiny-bootstrap fork (concerned with c-toolchain portability) qualify for such funding? <ekaitz>aggi: just read the website well <aggi>thanks ekaitz, i did read it while ago, skimming nlnet's large project list, with a total funding of ~8million € reported <ekaitz>go to the "apply for funding" part <ekaitz>the explain how much money they give to people <ekaitz>(i'm currently being funded by nlnet) <LaurentH48>From my experience, they are very interested in funding work on reproducible builds. Pnut is also funded by Nlnet, to give you an idea :) <aggi>i see total grands in between 5000€ - 50000€; which would be decent if hiring into a university succeeded for example (i failed autumn last year) <ekaitz>i think it depends a lot on your context <ekaitz>if you have a stable tech job, it might be very bad <aggi>problem is, current UBI legislation in germany/EU doesn't permit monthly income, it's cut away 100% then effictively <aggi>hence when such surplus granting was available, this money would be routed into the city cashpot, not into any of the project work <aggi>so, i rather see nlnet funding arrive at mescc or pnut etc. than this city here soaking it away as taxation <ekaitz>idk what you are talking about UBI <aggi>if you haven't got any income at all, related restrictions apply in EU/germany, and those restrictions do not permit grants for project work <ekaitz>look at the prototype fund, it's for people living in germany and is very similar to nlnet <ekaitz>i think you just need to be self-employed <aggi>ekaitz: last time i did this in return i had to pay 800€/month for health insurance alone at a monthly income of 2000€ <aggi>well, i do, but this doesn't belong here <ekaitz>i pay around 300€ per month for (public) health insurance <ekaitz>i'm not saying its low or high. But I'm also in the EU <aggi>assuming nlnet funding would yield 5000€, and i wished to sustain a living from this for 6month project work <aggi>half of it would be cut away for health insurance, the other half for appartment rent and nothing remaining for anything else <aggi>then this would qualify for UBI again, which doesn't permit relevant amounts of EU funding <ekaitz>aggi: i don't understand what you are trying to say or why do you blame it on the EU, but I've been living from NlNet funding for a few years <ekaitz>it's not a perfect model, because it doesn't ensure you'll have a long term stability <aggi>ekaitz: ok, i wished to apply for nlnet funding myslef (even when that failed giving it a try wouldn't hurt <aggi>but this had to get me out of the taxation rules of UBI, which nlnet funding probably won't <aggi>if however autumn last year some university had agreed to some contracting, this problem would be void, but it failed <aggi>yet now, just if nlnet agreed to funding, financial department of this city probably would tax away almost 100% of it <janus>jackdk: do you know if they have bootstrapped the lexer as part of this? <janus>or maybe i should distinguish 'lexer generator' from lexer <janus>the problem is that the lexer generator contains a lexer that is generated by... itself <janus>and the compiler then contains a lexer that is the output of the lexer generator <janus>so to make the compiler bootstrappable, you need to re-generate the lexer for the language the compiler handles <janus>but to do that , you need to run the lexer. but to run the lexer, you don't want to compile generated files <janus>now, you need a lexer for the lexer grammar, which describes the same format the compiler also uses to derive it's lexer (that it also ships as part of a 'source' tarball) <janus>notgull: is flex still not bootstrapped? i don't follow the community very closely <matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> e.g. live-bootstrap fully integrated flex and bison bootstrap