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2025-12-02.log

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<GrizzlT>For someone who's new to this community and has a lot of motivation and time, what are the things we're missing most? What are the big jobs that would improve the bootstrapping situation?
<AwesomeAdam54321>sneek, later tell GrizzlT: This is just opinion, but I think the big things we're missing out on bootstrapping is Ada, Pascal and Haskell
<AwesomeAdam54321>s/just opinion/just my opinion/
<agg1>there's a gigantic circular/non-bootstrapped dependency chain with hardware development and firmware/bios involved
<AwesomeAdam54321>Yep, that too. It seems daunting for 1 person to work on though
<agg1>c-toolchain portability isn't sufficiently adressed by upstream/mainstream anymore, that's what i'm working on still
<agg1>meanwhile, almost all ebuilds pass self-hosting on a tinycc-driven development host
<agg1>overall, i'm not too happy with a few quality issues remaining (disclosed by c-toolchain portability)
<AwesomeAdam54321>Do you think it would be useful for someone to additionally port those build recipes to another package management system?
<agg1>AwesomeAdam54321: yes, of cause!
<agg1>another major task remaining, i think, is ASM dependencies, i would prefer bin86/as86 instead of binutils/gas, because as86 got a much smaller dependency graph than binutils
<agg1>but that's my preference, not a major criteria for bootstrapping
<agg1>anyway, yes, i was thinking i may transition the gentoo-portage tree maintained into bootstrapple style packaging/kaem-scripts
<agg1>before that i want to see to the whole tinycc-driven system does pass self-hosting, and i have to think about cross-compilation support
<agg1>which i do not want to loose, and i want to avoid duplicated efforts (by keeping portage-tree and some re-integrated one)
<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> GrizzlT: yeah, ada pascal and haskell are big non bootstrapped languages. Its probably a fairly hard task though
<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> But it also depends on what you want to learn
<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> E.g. if you want to learn more about kernels, we only have kernel bootstrap working on x86 on bios systems only
<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> live-bootstrap is also x86 only so far
<Deepfriedice>How different is bootstrapping on ARM?
<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> Though with a bit of extra non upstreamed hacks it is possible to bootstrap GCC (userspace bootstrap only) of riscv64
<lanodan>So lacks kernel, I guess due to lack of support from Fiwix or equivalent?
<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> Yes
<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> And amd64 bootstrap will not work on UEFI only machine
<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> I have a bit of stuff working on UEFI (up to mes) but nothing complete...
<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> Deepfriedice: steps are similar on arm, but things need porting
<GrizzlT>I would be happy to work more on the low-level stuff, I am particularly interested in adding cross-compilation support in the early bootstrapping stages (between stage0 and gcc 14 basically). How much would need to be added to, for example, https://github.com/oriansj/blynn-compiler to get to modern haskell?
<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> GrizzlT: stage0 supports cross conpilation just fine
<GrizzlT>I've had issues with mescc though
<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> E.g. i can build stage0-posix from stage0-uefi
<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> Oh mescc maybe
<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> Though shouldn't be anything major
<GrizzlT>I may just lack understanding about the correct use of libc (whichever flavor)