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<Googulator>oriansj: notably, unmarked pregenerated files create a sort of unintentional double standard towards languages: because Haskell / GHC always shipped its pregenerated .hc files separately from the main sources, we're fully aware of the potential risks of Haskell not being bootstrapped, and there's work ongoing to solve it. By contrast, Ruby & Vala

<Googulator>include pregenerated C "sources" in their regular packages - as a result, even Guix just uses pregenerated code to bring up these languages, without much awareness.

<stikonas>yeah, but on the other hand ruby probably has far smaller header files compares to .hc

<Googulator>well, Haskell is probably one of the most complex languages in existence, which is part of why it's so difficult to bootstrap

<pabs3>ACTION wrote some things about generated files for Debian https://wiki.debian.org/AutoGeneratedFiles

<pabs3>and a long time ago one for games upstreams: https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Games/Upstream/#source

<pabs3>are there other pages about pregenerated files? for eg one on bootstrappable.org or the wiki?

<janus>there is a haskell conference starting tomorrow outside Zurich, in Rapperswil

<janus>during the last year, a retired haskell OG named Lennart has started a small implementation of Haskell called MicroHs

<janus>and a build system called MicroCabal

<janus>it might make it easier to bootstrap haskell eventually

<janus>but there are just so many versions of GHC haskell over the years

<janus>if MicroHs were to build one of them, both the GHC to build and MicroHs itself needs changes

<janus>anyway i'll be at the conference

<pabs3>presumably these? https://github.com/augustss/MicroHs https://github.com/augustss/MicroCabal

<lanodan>Seems blobbed https://github.com/augustss/MicroHs/blob/master/Makefile#L39 https://github.com/augustss/MicroHs/blob/master/generated/mhs.c

<lanodan>That said a small implementation could make it easier bootstrap

<janus>it's blobbed if you wanna go from C... would be nice if it was in Guile, i agree ;)

<janus>but it's an improvement over shipping .hc files right?

<stikonas>still, there is no reason it has to be blobbed...

<stikonas>if blob is huge, then it's no different from .hs files

<janus>i suppose it depends what you mean by 'blobbed'

<janus>stikonas: i suspect the c file is shipped such that you can start using MicroHs without having GHC available

<janus>not sure if 'there is no reason' is hyperbole or not

<stikonas>well that might be the reason, but that's not useful for bootstrapping

<stikonas>for bootstrapping you want an implementation in another language

<stikonas>not a array in C file that is secretly a binary

IRC channel logs

2024-06-05.log