IRC channel logs

<Googulator>from what I see on #guix, folks don't seem very interested in the LB->Guix bootstrap...

<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> No, they don't seem to care about baremetal bootstrapping or pregenerated files. They mostly want to have just cleaner

<matrix_bridge><Andrius Štikonas> cleaner package dependency graph

<Googulator>Pregens aren't really the point here, rather it's reducing the binary seed further, which Guix does otherwise seem to care about

<Googulator>right now, the binary seed for Guix is 20-odd MiB, plus the kernel & bootloader, at the very least.

<fossy>from my limited interactions, many guixers don't seem to think that guile really "counts", because it's merely a "driver" or something like that

<fossy>and i think the long term plan is to repalce it with mes

<fossy>not really sure how that works?

<fossy>(although, generally #guix seems to have a high rate of unanswered questions)

<fossy>oriansj: a review at some point would be appreacited :) https://github.com/oriansj/stage0-posix/pull/79

<Googulator>Right now, until the very final guile is built, bootstrap-guile is used almost exclusively to execute Scheme/Lisp code

<Googulator>(save for mescc running under Mes)

<fossy>Yeah

<fossy>i believe the plan was/is to replace bootstrap-guile with mes

<fossy>but i don't really understand the logistics of that

<Googulator>AFAIK Mes 0.26 is meant to rectify that, but so far, Guix is still is on 0.24.2 which has no chance of running gash (the primary reason why bootstrap-guile is currently an input of almost every package before the final guile is built)

<Googulator>also, Guix has no "early Bash"

<Googulator>it uses Gash until it can build an "almost-final" Bash

<fossy>yeah i recall that

<Googulator>(same bash version as the final one, just built with different libs & compiler)

<Googulator>Gash running under bootstrap-guile is terribly memory bandwidth limited btw

<Googulator>even worse than mescc possibly

<Googulator>The same configure scripts that run in a few seconds on my Core 2 bootstrapping rig in LB take tens of minutes in Guix when running under Gash

<Googulator>but overall, bootstrap-guile right now is far more than "just a driver", considering it is *solely responsible for all shell script execution until a near-final Bash takes over*

<Googulator>all of that power and responsibility delegated to a binary downloaded off the Web, that's not even reproducibly built

<Googulator>(at least it is checksummed, so you can't just MITM the download and inject a malicious version)

<Googulator>Looks like the Python issue is resolved by re-enabling chroot in the Guix daemon after the final Guile is bootstrapped

<Googulator>unfortunately we can only do this on qemu or bare metal, as the daemon has trouble running in a chroot or bwrap environment unless --disable-chroot is used

<pabs3>TIL there is a "not even remotely usable" Ada compiler in Scala using LLVM https://github.com/pchapin/augusta from https://github.com/ohenley/awesome-ada

<pabs3>(IIRC Scala isn't bootstrappable either)

IRC channel logs

2024-05-25.log