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2023-06-11.log
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<oriansj>river: well that is entirely expected. Absolutely nothing will change and only vague and hard to falsify statements were issued. <oriansj>all advances in some environments come from people doing extra work they don't have to do and sometimes against instructions from higher management. <stikonas>fossy: any objections to disabling e2defrag? <stikonas>fails to build with musl 1.2.4 and we don't really need it <river>[on the minecraft thing] interesting responses. very cynical. these people are volunteering to work on this by choice. I do not think that the assessment that they don't care about it and aren't doing anything is correct. <[exa]>river: the wording unfortunately gives very little tangible assurance that can actually be verified <stikonas>well, they could always switch to minetest... <janneke>i may hope that most programmers volunteer to work on what they work on but it's very harde to believe these people aren't part of a commercial corporation, jugded by what they say <[exa]>yeah if you take it through the industryspeech translator it means "the attack won't happen again let's not do anything" <janneke>or something like: "the changes proposed by our enginering team shows they have no clue about running a business, we cannot pay more for security than the const of a insurance policy" <oriansj>river: well I work as a computer security and reliablity engineer for the State of Michigan and have sat through way too freaking many meetings with vendors who lie and provide false evidence and have gotten in trouble for reporting legitimate security threats. <oriansj>I have listened to people with a straight face say "32bit DES is unbreakable" and "there is nothing wrong with our software downloading updates from a domain we don't own and not even bothering to check what they download before running it" and "Just run it as root and you need to turn off SELinux" <oriansj>Mind you, these people are depending on an ecosystem that can be turned off tomorrow by Microsoft with zero warning and no way to recover; with all of their work being thrown down the tubes. But they choose to support MineCraft instead of minetest, so clearly they aren't exactly thinking clearly about ensuring the long term future of their work. <oriansj>But then again we exist in a Society where a public servant being paid $400K/year manages to save $100M in 8 years and don't think of it as a sign that something seriously is wrong. <muurkha>if a security guard stops a $10M armed robbery, should we pay him $9M? <oriansj>muurkha: I wouldn't have a problem with that. But if a security guard fails to stop $10M in robberies and magically has $9M show up in his bank account from "unknown parties" I have problems <oriansj>perhaps my prior sentence would have been more clear if I expressed "save $100M" as "banked $100M into their personal account supposedly from that paycheck" <muurkha>I'm thinking that probably the previous owner of the $10M would be almost as unhappy with giving $9M voluntarily to the guard as giving $10M involuntarily to the robbers <muurkha>meanwhile, the robbers are much happier with the scenario you outline, and the security guard's profit is indifferent between them <muurkha>but is much lower in the case where he stops the $10M robbery but only gets paid $40k for that day of work <muurkha>corruption is not inevitable, but it is very profitable for its participants, and so it is difficult to dismantle it once it is established <oriansj>or they are the ones who paid off the security guard but yes corruption is considerably difficult to eliminate once it exists <oriansj>trust is essential to civilization and routinely turned into cash <oriansj>by those who leverage human weakness for financial gain. (Stares at social media companies) <ekaitz>stikonas: I sent you an email, it might sound a little bit too much but it's a good thing <stikonas>well, I actually didn't really do that much, so it's fine <stikonas>I would be glad if somebody else can finish mes->tcc bootstrap <ekaitz>stikonas: let's put it in another way: if you consider you made some work, we can give you a % <ekaitz>share what you did in the thread and I'll try to arrange it <ekaitz>I can't promise anything, but we have to do things properly <stikonas>ok, I'll reply there and point to the commits there <ekaitz>muurkha: for context: i got another nlnet grant <ekaitz>and I want to share it, mostly because I don't want to do all the tasks myself (I can't!) <stikonas>yeah, it's quite a lot of work to bring up bootstrapping on the new arch <stikonas>anyway, I should first eat my dinner and then will find out what risc-v work I did <ekaitz>stikonas: there's no pressure, take your time