<Hagfish>it's always easier to volunteer for a known amount of work than an unknown amount :) <Hagfish>if you can keep track of how much time the maintenance takes up, people won't feel they are taking on more than they can safely commit to <Hagfish>and once something is set up and in use, people can appreciate the value of it more <oriansj>or ultimately decide that a git repo of the contents is more valuable than a hosted service <Hagfish>yeah, such a comparison becomes more concrete <oriansj>although that does require me to do a great deal more of the decision making but I guess it was inevitable <oriansj>the unavoidable downside of who does decides. Sometimes you have to be the one making the choices <oriansj>especially one you don't know the correct solution and they all seem about the same in terms of effort and results <oriansj>like I know that we have a wiki and the repeated risk of it being deleted is annoying and I know how to solve that on a technical level but I also know it isn't something I benefit from directly as much as new people and that is why it has value. I guess I was hoping for some hard perspective of the people less familiar with everything than I am. <oriansj>aka what do the new people here think and to tell me what i am getting right and wrong. <Hagfish>there are probably people who see the wiki and think "that's interesting", and then move on <Hagfish>i don't know if we should be optimising for that use case <Hagfish>i'm just thinking about how survivorship bias affects things <Hagfish>did everyone who ended up contributing use the wiki at some point? <oriansj>indeed, why the problem of what I am wrong about is so important <Hagfish>like you say, the wiki is most valuable to the people least able to contribute to it <Hagfish>wouldn't it be possible to make the wiki content be a sub-section of some other group's wiki? <oriansj>and unfortunately only those on matrix or IRC are here to communicate, which does filter out some people by default <Hagfish>i don't think there's any inherent problem in hosting two disparate wikis on the same instance <Hagfish>i guess the limiting factors are you can only have one front page, and some search terms would appear in search results from each section, diluting the signal <oriansj>and curation can be used to increase the purity of the signal <oriansj>much like the gentoo and arch wikis being limited contribution but very useful <Hagfish>do we have connections to the people behind the OSDev wiki? <Hagfish>it might be worth reaching out to them <Hagfish>presumably it is possible to limit accounts to only be able to edit certain pages <Hagfish>so they could limit the blast radius of any signups they allow <oriansj>so your thought is instead of us hosting the wiki content, we get it into the OSDev wiki? <Hagfish>it might also help that community, or attract people from it <Hagfish>although we shouldn't think of it in terms of poaching users across <oriansj>if they are open to such cooperation. <Hagfish>yeah, it would obviously have to be done transparently, not trying to sneak a load of edits without telling them :) <oriansj>true and they might not want a course on creating programming languages on their OS wiki <oriansj>I wonder if there are any programming language creation communities that might find our work directly helpful <Hagfish>there's an esolang wiki, isn't there? <oriansj>don't know, never heard of it before <Hagfish>"Please help us by adding some more information." <Hagfish>heh, be careful what you wish for :) <oriansj>and they are on #esolangs on Libera.Chat so I guess I should go say hi <oriansj>well I added hex0, hex1, hex2, M0 and cc_* to the esolangs wiki <oriansj>Hagfish: the classic quote I believe is "Be careful what you wish for; because the Devil answers prayers with a yes when God says no and for the same reasons." <oriansj>and a very light introduction was added, lets see how they react ***Hagfish_ is now known as Hagfish
<oriansj>So we could probably mirror some info there without much trouble but it would result in our info being buried <Hagfish>i don't know if buried is the right word <Hagfish>as long as people who need it can find it, it doesn't matter if irrelevant stuff is a few clicks away <Hagfish>the whole internet is a few clicks away :) <Hagfish>you could have a static home/intro page somewhere else, outside of the wiki instance, just to explain the situation or get people off to a good start <oriansj>it is the "as long as people who need it can find it" bit that is what concerns me <oriansj>hence the idea of a centralized wiki that is easy to mirror/clone and contains everything that might be helpful (such as copies of videos of the talks and the tarballs needed) <oriansj>with ftp/rsync support of the bigger files <Hagfish>being able to clone a local copy of all the necessary documentation sounds valuable <Hagfish>video hosting has different requirements to wiki hosting <oriansj>and reading up on the J2 makes me wonder if I should do a port for stage0 as well (only the delay slot looks annoying) <oriansj>Hagfish: not if we treat them just like files <muurkha>a clonable/mirrorable Wiki would be great <muurkha>GitLab and GitHub have that as a builtin feature. not sure about SourceHut, Gogs, and Gitea <muurkha>in CommonMark, which is a pretty decent variant of Markdown <unmatched-paren>yeah, they're basically just git repos with Markdown files in them that are rendered to man.sr.ht/~blah/blah when you push a commit