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<stikonas>well, there is also a lot of custom software that is neither free nor proprietary. Just some internal code that organization uses inside

<Hagfish>i think that still counts as proprietary. it's copyrighted by default, which makes it the company's property (and under standard contractual arrangements)

<Hagfish>i guess it's not "commercial" in the sense that it is not being sold

<stikonas>no, FSF considers it trivially free

<stikonas>in the sense that all users (company itself) have freedom to run/modify/use it

<Hagfish>ah, i see

<stikonas>see "Private Software" section in https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html

<Hagfish>"Proprietary software is another name for nonfree software." hmm, i think that's a questionable definition

<Hagfish>proprietary just means that it has an owner, and that owner maintains their rights over it

<stikonas>but that's how people started using that term

<stikonas>free software might also have an owner

<stikonas>and owner has rights over it too (although chooses to let others have some rights and obligations too)

<Hagfish>"Created or manufactured exclusively by the owner of intellectual property rights, as with a patent or trade secret. "

<Hagfish>i guess it's the word "exclusive" that matters there

<Hagfish>(and i know the FSF would hate that definition, because it contains the misnomer "intellectual property")

<stikonas>fossy: I checked, live-bootstrap should now be mostly reproducible in the future (no more manpage issues)

<stikonas>though I found some pregenerated manpages that we should delete

<stikonas>and also the whole thing breaks in 2038

<stikonas>or to be more precise POSIX module in perl-5.6.2

<fossy>yes, there's >1 2038 problem i have found, pretty sure older musl also breaks at 2038

<stikonas>fossy: musl might break but the build continues

<stikonas>i.e. with date 1901

<fossy>ah, makes sense

<fossy>what happens to perl 5.6?

<stikonas>possibly miniperl crashes when building POSIX module

<stikonas>I was running qemu with '-rtc', 'base=2039-11-11T11:11:00,clock=vm',

<fossy>i see...

<stikonas>possibly should rebuild bash-2.05 with musl to debug

<stikonas>otherwise hard to debug in qemu

<stikonas>I think bash-2.05 only needs autoconf-2.52

<oriansj>stikonas: thank god we have plenty of time to address that bug

<oriansj>although it isn't surprising that the 2038bug will be showing up in weird places

<stikonas>well, most of the time it's harmless in bootstrapping

<stikonas>I think plenty of software is happily building even with wrong date of 1901

<oriansj>ideally yes.

<muurkha>Hagfish: oh! I thought there was a better Pokemon AI than that

IRC channel logs

2022-06-11.log