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<unmatched-paren>does anyone know a good introduction to lex and yacc, and [LA]LR parsing in general?

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<muurkha>unmatched-paren: I learned about it from the Dragon Book when I was a kid, but I didn't really understand it

<muurkha>I used ocamlyacc to write the Bicicleta parser, so I did eventually understand it well enough to use, but I still couldn't write an LALR parser generator

<muurkha>so conceivably I may not be the best source of information

<muurkha>but I think it may be better nowadays to just use PEG

<unmatched-paren>muurkha: apparently PEG is slightly less powerful, but i'll give it a go...

<muurkha>well, it's slower

<unmatched-paren>hm

<muurkha>but it can parse every language LALR can parse, and it's a lot easier to understand

<unmatched-paren>probably doesn't matter for a bootstrap compiler anyway

<unmatched-paren>it's just pascal, nothing too tricky, no significant whitespace evilness or anything

<muurkha>I wrote an introduction in https://github.com/kragen/peg-bootstrap

<unmatched-paren>still, ocaml doesn't seem to have a PEG library...

<muurkha>but there are probably better introductions

<muurkha>yeah, the path of least resistance might be to just use ocamllex and ocamlyacc

<unmatched-paren>or ocamllex and menhir

<muurkha>but if you find yourself getting frustrated trying to figure out what a shift-reduce conflict is, keep PEGs in mind as an alternative

<muurkha>you can write a usable PEG library in 100 lines of code

<unmatched-paren>how about parser combinators?

<unmatched-paren>they seem to fit really well with functional languages

<muurkha>those are more a user interface to a parsing library than they are a parsing algorithm

<unmatched-paren>...except the parser combinators for ocaml all seem to be unmaintained :(

<unmatched-paren>menhir it is, then -.o.-

<muurkha>parsing libraries don't need to be maintained usually

<muurkha>they usually don't get security holes ;)

<unmatched-paren>fair enough :)

<unmatched-paren>i managed to get menhir building under ocaml-4.07, but i couldn't figure out how to make the install phase work

<unmatched-paren>i might just do ocamllex

<muurkha>it's probably the path of least resistance

<unmatched-paren>yeah

<unmatched-paren>well, menhir is just as easy on the latest ocaml

<unmatched-paren>but i seem to be running into problems on 4.07

<muurkha>nothing is *quite* so easy to install as something that's already installed

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<drakonis>raku does PEGs but the bootstrap path might be a little rough

<drakonis>since you might want to bootstrap perl

<stikonas>drakonis: there are no issues with perl

<unmatched-paren>well, no *bootstrapping* issues, at least ;)

<stikonas>we build perl in live-bootstrap

<drakonis>hm, nice.

<drakonis>good to know

<unmatched-paren>are there actually compilers in perl?

<unmatched-paren>well, there's a C compiler in vimscript, so anything is possible, i guess!

<drakonis>well, not perl i guess

<drakonis>raku is very amenable to building these

<drakonis>actually, i recall seeing a compiler built with perl

<drakonis>it was used for a toy fp language

<drakonis> https://github.com/Raku/nqp

<stikonas>perl bootstrap is here: https://github.com/fosslinux/live-bootstrap/blob/master/parts.rst#33perl-5000 (we build it in a few stages because perl used a bit of perl scripts in the build process (mostly stuff like generating some header files)

<drakonis>oh, nice.

<drakonis>how amenable is the bootstrappable project to the idea of other languages for bootstrapping steps?

<drakonis>the most common one so far seems to be scheme

<stikonas>drakonis: we use whatver we have bootstrapped

<stikonas>there are no limitations

<drakonis>i see

<drakonis>cool.

<stikonas>live-bootstrap basically bootstraps GCC but on the way we must bootstrap some other languages

<stikonas>as GCC depends on them

<stikonas>e.g. bash, perl, etc...

<stikonas>(bash and perl is due to GNU Autotools)

<oriansj>and there is the guile bootstrap which would be the bootstrapped scheme

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2022-03-31.log