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2021-07-14.log

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<stikonas>had another brief look at autogen... It's just as scary if not scarier...
<plasma41>stikonas: What's the issue with autogen?
<stikonas>plasma41: it's really full of circular dependencies
<stikonas>at least 15 files (.c .h and a few others) are generated with autogen
<plasma41>ugh
<stikonas>well, we found a way to build binutils/gcc without autogen (don't use top level configure script but use configure scripts in subdirectories)
<stikonas>git repo even includes tarball with those generated files for "bootstrapping" https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/autogen.git/tree/agen5 see agen5.tgz
<stikonas>(comitting gzip into git repo is also a bad idea but that's unrelated)
<stikonas>(more files in https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/autogen.git/tree/autoopts see gen-src.tgz)
<stikonas>although, autogen'ed files are much closer to normal source in terms of readability than lets say bison parsers
<plasma41>stikonas: Well that counts for something at least
<stikonas>yeah, since it's closer to templating engine than to code generator
<Hagfish>the philosophical questions would get quite tricky if someone wrote some new templates and a new template engine, which produced the same output as the autogen'ed files
<Hagfish>would those new templates be the "preferred form for editing", if no one would use them except for bootstrapping?
<stikonas>yeah, that would be fine
<stikonas>that's what we do to rebuild perl headers
<stikonas>well, it was not templates there...
<stikonas>just some headers
*pabs3 would never put generated files nor template output in git, ew
<ekaitz>hey! did you read about this? https://openpowerfoundation.org/libre-soc-180nm-power-isa-asic-submitted-to-imec-for-fabrication/
<ekaitz>does anyone have extra info about it?
<clemens3>there is hope, breadboard computer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_ZaioqF1B0
<ekaitz>"i designed it to be very simple... kind of simple"
<stikonas>there is also Ben Eater's 8-bit computer
<stikonas>that looks more modular and less messy
<GeDaMo>"The Gray-1, a homebrew CPU exclusively composed of memory" http://web.archive.org/web/20170203220739/http://2x-1.net/ob/gray1/
<ekaitz>there's a guy making a RISC-V computer using discrete components too
<ekaitz>wow GeDaMo that one is really cool
<plasma41>clemens3: "simple on paper" :-P
<plasma41>That ROM-only cpu is really cool
<oriansj>pabs3: well there is a single case for commiting a binary to a git repo: https://github.com/oriansj/bootstrap-seeds but that is because we need 1 binary to get started.
<oriansj>ekaitz: I just pray for ECC support but I'll probably order one provided it is below the get wife angry cost range.
<stikonas[m]>Well, pushing gzip into git is just space inefficient, small changes to source might result in big changes to gzip which Git's zlib won't be able to compress well
<stikonas[m]>Yeah, that pineapple one RISC computer looks very promising for bootstrap
<stikonas[m]>Should be good enough for M2-Planet