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2021-04-12.log

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<stikonas>fossy: I've removed all pre-generated info files here https://github.com/fosslinux/live-bootstrap/pull/97
<stikonas>the other PR with autoconf pregen files still has some issues, so in draft mode for ow
<stikonas>for now
<stikonas>maybe tomorrow...
<stikonas>gforce_de1977: btw, I guess there is little point of running parallel tests until I finish my PR, so maybe we can postpone it a bit
<fossy>stikonas[m]: i see
<fossy>stikonas[m]: i have now finished perl 5.10
<fossy>but it is only suitable for bootstrapping newer perl (i culled all extensions)
<fossy>(because that wouldn't build and i only want it for newer perl)
<fossy>i think metaconfig is doable for newer perl because debian does it
<fossy>so if debian can we probably can
<stikonas[m]>Hmm, in this case we might want to wait for either metaconfig before enabling build (can still merge without run2.sh) or stow...
<gforce_de1977>i have done this night a massrun with an "old" checkout, just for getting better numbers (there where 88 qemu-instances non-booting in the run before, seems fixed now): https://paste.debian.net/1193291/ (the numbers are still valid)
<gforce_de1977>now i will concentrate on a very fresh checkout with rootfs.py
<gforce_de1977>("kein boot" => non-booting ...sorry)
<gforce_de1977>stikonas: take your time and poke if i should start another run
<bauen1>stikonas[m]: the problem with make is that some autoconf versions are lacking dependencies, so that would need to be fixed and then a rm should all be that is necessary
<bauen1>i can also pr my commits to make stow work in
<bauen1>just the rest of making builds use stow and versioned autohell is very messy
<stikonas>fossy: if you are not building full perl for 5.10, maybe microperl is enough?
<stikonas>I guess it should have the same functionality
<stikonas>just easier to build
<stikonas>hmm
<bauen1>>_> automake-1.10.3 hard codes `autoreconf` in the Makefile
<bauen1>thank you autohell tools for nothing, again
<gforce_de1977>bauen1 8-)))
<stikonas>bauen1: oh, and AUTORECONF= varaible doesn't help?
<stikonas>oh yes, it's in doc folder
<stikonas>bauen1: by the way, what's the reason we can't have non-versioned autotools symlinks with stow?
<bauen1>stikonas: well, we can but then we can only have one autotools linked, and imho being specific with the versions is good, especially once i try to move some of these into chroots where i need to know the version used
<stikonas>hmm, that's true
<bauen1>stikonas: you could recreate the autotools unversioned symlinks everytime to point to the newest version
<stikonas>althouh, we rarely need more than one
<stikonas>but yes, good reason...
<stikonas>I know we need more than one for binutils and gcc
<stikonas>but usually only one newish version
<bauen1>i've pushed my latest wip again, but i don't really like how messy all of this is
<stikonas>and some old versions
<stikonas>well, you can try to clean it up a bit until you are happier
<bauen1>yeah
<fossy><stikonas> fossy: if you are not building full perl for 5.10, maybe microperl is enough?
<bauen1>idk, currently run.sh is imo too messy
<fossy>no im building full Perl -extensions
<fossy>It needs full stdlib support
<stikonas>oh ok...
<stikonas>not sure what stdlib is though...
<stikonas>some perl library?
<fossy>everything in lib/
<fossy>lib/*.pm basically
<fossy>might not be the right term
<stikonas>ok, I see. Anyway, I don't know the right term either
<bauen1>i could also try to build a upkg-build tool to do chroot builds right after we get stow, but i still need to figure out a good way of getting the pseudo packages into the chroot
<stikonas>well, let's first get stow working...
<stikonas>but yeah, I think run.sh has to be cleaned up a bit more
<stikonas>or at least complexity hidden in some function
<bauen1>stikonas: stow is already working quite well
<stikonas>well, run.sh is also better than before
<bauen1>stikonas: really ?
<stikonas>well, I mean you have those link and unlik fucntions
<bauen1>true, but imho it's still quite messy :/
<stikonas>it makes it a bit less messy
<stikonas>yes, that's also true
<bauen1>stikonas: once i catch up to run2 i'll probably rebase, clean up the commits and make a pr
<stikonas>still better than before, but can try to make it even less messy
<bauen1>stikonas: i can start writing a upkg_build1 wrapper that takes care of the first few things (and will eventually be turned into upkg-build to do chroot builds)
<stikonas>bauen1: one idea for cleanup
<stikonas>is to have build function do a bit more work
<stikonas>now all build steps are prefixed with DESTDIR
<bauen1>for now i'm playing catch up with all the autotools to specify the concrete version used
<stikonas>I think we can define it inside build
<stikonas>yeah, that must be quite some work...
<stikonas>there are some many autotools
<bauen1>defining DESTDIR is usally easy, except for cases with multiple stages / passes, so i would have to rewrite it, but i'll do this next
<stikonas>oh indeed...
<stikonas>although, we only care about the last pass
<stikonas>when installing
<stikonas>so maybe can do something like: use the same destdir, but if it exists, remove previous destdir once we are ready to install into a new one
<bauen1>yes, i also thought about making all the "staged" builds e.g. autoconf bootstrapping into one
<bauen1>stikonas: i'd prefer not to do any "remove exisiting" if at all possible
<stikonas>sometimes there is a gap between stages
<stikonas>oh I see...
<bauen1>stikonas: eventually i can then "preseed" the packages and have upkg skip things if checksums match expected values
<stikonas>well, can always name DESTDIR=pkg_name_build_script_name
<bauen1>right that's a good idea
<bauen1>probably $(basename $script_name) but yes that should work
<gforce_de1977>and now for something completely different: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_prime -> we should search for a usecase, where the initial seed can be interpreted as PRIME or a subset of PI - Hagfish: this seems to be something for you maybe?
<bauen1>isn't there some compression program that does exactly that ?
<OriansJ`>gforce_de1977: well it certainly is for initial seed to be a subset of PI; finding it is a bit more of a problem. Making it a prime number would be far easier.
<stikonas>well, any program is almost surely is a subset of pi digits
<stikonas>anyway, being prime of subset of pi does not guarantee that there are no backdoors
<stikonas>since pi also should have all malicious programs somewhere in its digits
<fossy>^^^
<bauen1>btw is there a proper name for the autoconf / automake tools ? i just keep calling them autohell, but that might not be quite appropiate
<wumpus>besides "autotools"?
<bauen1>oh right
<bauen1>gforce_de1977: by the way, how did you get sha256sum to do a recursive checksum of a directory ?
<Hagfish>gforce_de1977: you know me too well :) i've already trolled the HN discussion about it
<Hagfish>well, i didn't mention bootstrapping, but i see what you mean about it overlapping with this project
<Hagfish>i think the advantage of turning a program into a prime is that it allows it to be published while not the program itself is illegal
<Hagfish>hopefully that won't ever be the case for bootstraps
<Hagfish>but yeah, putting the seed into a tweet (in some encoding), and on various blockchains would be a nice way of ensuring it is universally (and permanently) available
<Hagfish>unfortunately the various source code packages won't be so easy to make available
<Hagfish>if we're relying on hash matching to secure those, then maybe we only care about the hash of the initial seed
<Hagfish>as long as you can trust the system which checks the hash of the seed you want to use, hmm
<bauen1>you should also include the sha1 of live-bootstraps most recent commit ?
<bauen1>(sha256 would be better), then you have a hash tree from using which you can get to gcc 4
<stikonas>bauen1: where is sha256sum used recursively?
<bauen1>stikonas: in a log of gforce_de1977 runs
<gforce_de1977>stikonas: bauen1: e.g. this file: http://intercity-vpn.de/bootstrap/bootstrap.log-multilog-1-1618127407.txt | see at timestamp "00h42m36s" there is a sha256 of all files
<gforce_de1977>its just this command: sha256sum /after/bin/* /after/lib/* /after/include/* /after/share/* || true
<stikonas>gforce_de1977: I've just fixed my PR that should fix intermittent error in autoconf https://github.com/fosslinux/live-bootstrap/pull/96
<gforce_de1977>very good. just for the record, here is my adapted helpers.sh: http://intercity-vpn.de/bootstrap/sysa-helpers-sh.txt
<gforce_de1977>(including the base64 dumper)
<gforce_de1977>fossy: please review pull-96 and merge, and i can make another shot of mass-testruns
<stikonas>gforce_de1977: can you run mass-test run on branch of PR?
<stikonas>that might give us more info whether PR works
<gforce_de1977>stikonas: good idea, running on branch is no problem, will do
***jorts is now known as nckx
***cbaines_ is now known as cbaines