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2020-05-11.log

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<OriansJ>xentrac: actually the secret to collecting yeast is tomato plants. Small bowls of wheat flour and water next to the fruiting tomatoes enables easy collection of yeast (simply wait 24 hours)
<OriansJ>So having created a C compiler without having a C compiler and collected yeast for making bread. I'd say the collection of yeast is easier
<OriansJ>but then again modern yeasts are quite genetically divergent from the wild strains and produce a sweeter bread.
<OriansJ>xentrac: I also thought you finished dercuano.
<xentrac>yeah, I did
<xentrac>I mean I finalized it. "finished" is maybe too complimentary of a term. I stopped working on it so that there would be a final version
<OriansJ>although the firing at government buildings do have me concerned, especially since I work in one of those buildings.
<xentrac>don't suppose you have budget for security film for your office windows, do you?
<xentrac>the kind of polyester film they use in cigarette stores and the like will enable ordinary glass to stop small-caliber bullets, and for that matter large-caliber small-arms bullets at grazing angles
<xentrac>once
<xentrac>enough time for you to hit the floor if the rest of the wall is concrete
<OriansJ>xentrac: It is the Department of Technology Management and Budget. Meaning they are bad at technology, horrific at management and they probably already spent the budget on booze and hookers.
<xentrac>OriansJ: do you have a window? I wonder how much the security film would cost
<xentrac>it seems like it would be an unlikely thing to get in trouble for if you installed it yourself
<xentrac>since only the cleaning people would notice it was there and they would assume it was approved
<OriansJ>I work in a cube, in a massive pool of cubes
<OriansJ>also Michigan is home to the Michigan Militia; so when people show up with guns, the smallest caliber arms they are packing is an AR-15
<xentrac>AR-15 is a pretty small caliber, but with a pretty significant cartridge
<xentrac>they definitely aren't among the more powerful small arms out there
<xentrac>but still enough to explode your head like a ripe pumpkin
<xentrac>probably if you're in the middle you'll be fine though
<xentrac>one of your coworkers closer to the windows will snuff it instead
<xentrac>(I mean there are AR-15s that take a .22 LR but normally it's 5.56 mm; it's unusual to find a 9mm AR-15, while that's common in handguns)
<xentrac>maybe you should go to some Michigan Militia training camps for basic gun safety training!
<xentrac>I mean probably they don't start demanding you believe the paranoid antigovernment conspiracy theories in their initial recruitment process, and you could pick up some basic arms training for cheap or free
<OriansJ>well with 1/2 Million members (in a state of 10M people) I doubt it
<xentrac>you doubt that it would be cheap or free, or you doubt that they're too hard-core about the paranoid theories?
<OriansJ>doubt they are too hard-core about the paranoid theories
<xentrac>I had no idea they were taht big
<xentrac>that big
<OriansJ>They are more famous for food pantries and blood drives
<xentrac>but yeah, I think that would probably put too much of a crimp in their recruitment funnel
<xentrac>do they do firearms training too?
<xentrac>I admit I haven't checked
<OriansJ>They teach classes available to the public
<xentrac>(just to be clear here, I've never so much as had my finger on the trigger of a firearm)
<OriansJ>I live in Michigan. So if you spent more than 10 years here, I'd be more surprised if you didn't.
<OriansJ>It is estimated we have 40Million guns in a state of just 10Million people.
<OriansJ>but shooting are generally extremely rare anywhere outside of Detroit
<xentrac>I only ever spent a week or two in Michigan, mostly in Ann Arbor, just a little bit in Detroit
<OriansJ>Hence why the shooting of the Government buildings is a big culture shock.
<OriansJ>Carrying guns in protest: common. Firing of guns in public: news worthy Vidolating gun safety best practices: unheard of until recently.
<xentrac>Oh, well, although obviously I'm no expert I thought that was kind of their thing. Waco, Ruby Ridge, FEMA concentration camps, jet fuel can't melt steel beams, etc.
<OriansJ>xentrac: When you think Michigan Militia think: Women's shelters funded by people who like guns
<xentrac> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Militia says its membership is now several hundreds
<OriansJ>several hundred wackos: probably. Members: doubt it given its base of support in the black population of Detroit.
<xentrac>I wonder if there are two different organizations we're confusing
<OriansJ>xentrac: possibly
<pabs3>is bootstrappable.org focussed on low-level stuff or is higher-level stuff (like build systems that build-depend on themselves) in scope?
<fossy>both :))
<pabs3>is there any advice on how to convince higher-level stuff that an official bootstrap process is a good idea? or success stories from who have done that
<fossy>pabs3: ah, the masterly difficult topic
<fossy>It is very hard
<fossy>Most people see it as a waste of resources
<fossy>The Why page on bootstrappable.org is a good thing to paraphrase
<pabs3>FTR, this is about sbt, the scala build tool, which only builds using itself
<xentrac>hmm, usually build tools are relatively easy to deal with, since they just produce a sequence of compiler invocations, which can usually be simplified quite a bit
<xentrac>what about the scala compiler?
<Profpatsch>> build tools are relatively easy to deal with
<Profpatsch>lol
<Profpatsch>especially applied to sbt this statement is just super not right :P
<Profpatsch>you see, sbt, is not a lowly *build tool*, sbt is a generalized frameworks that you could, in theory, implement a build tool in, among other things.
<Profpatsch>and Scala devs who “just want a friggin build tool” haven’t understood the far-sightedness of the sbt authors
<rain1>I dont use scala but i find build tools in general provide too many bells and whistles
<pabs3>xentrac: IIRC the scala compiler requires sbt to build
<rain1>to break bootstrap loops you sometimes have to deal with the build system
<rain1>unravelling a complex build process into a linear list of commands for example
<xentrac>haha, well, I confess I haven't actually had to deal with sbt much in my life
<pabs3>for folks who have commit access to the website, there is a broken link on this page: https://bootstrappable.org/projects/jvm-languages.html
<pabs3>(the IRC channel link)
<pabs3>also theres a typo: Kotiln