***roptat_ is now known as roptat
<vagrantc>janneke: is it plausible for mes to install files such as /usr/include/getopt.h into another directory? I'm realizing this could be a challenge for packaging for debian, since two packages can't (usually) have files in the same path <vagrantc>janneke: and is bin/mes expected to be statically compiled? <janneke>vagrantc: bin/mes is expected to be statically compiled, esp. because its primary focus is bootstrapping <vagrantc>sure, just checking ... can add an override for that easily :) <janneke>when mes is not used for bootstrapping, it's a don't care afaic <vagrantc>the "files are really old" issue can probably solve by just touching everything to SOURCE_DATE_EPOCH before building. <janneke>vagrantc: /usr/include/... ouch yes. Hmm. i had all those under share/mes/{include,lib} and that gave all kinds of manual configuration juggling while compiling tcc and others <vagrantc>it's a little bit grumbly about usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libc+tcc.a being static too, but i think i might be able to adjust the packaging to fix that <janneke>so, during bootstrap you really want those files in /usr/include and /usr/lib -- i can imagine that as a regular package that's very inconvenient. hmm <vagrantc>a few issues with files like usr/share/info/images/gcc-mesboot-graph.dot.gz not actually being info pages <vagrantc>janneke: i guess it depends on what the goal of packaging mes in Debian really is for <vagrantc>janneke: there's also a (potentially) minor issue with files in bin/*.scm ... normally files in PATH shouldn't contain language extensions ... not sure if that would be tricky to do right. <vagrantc>and then the man pages have some weaknesses ... i think that pretty much summarizes the remaining issues with packaging mes for debian :) <vagrantc>seems like the biggest issue is the include files... <vagrantc>janneke: it would technically be possible to use a dpkg-diversion for the include files, but ... that's horrendously messy and might require coordination and cooperation with all the packages that ship conflicting files. <janneke>so maybe just move them under /usr/share/mes/include <vagrantc>so then the question becomes ... how useful will mes be with the includes in a different location? <janneke>that's what version 0.19 had; in Guix this is just much less problematic <janneke>if you want to compile tcc using the mes c library (that's what we are talking about), you can simply use -I /usr/share/mes/include or something. that's only mildly annoying <vagrantc>mildly annoying is workable in the context of bootstrapping :) <vagrantc>given that bootstrapping as a whole involves some higher-level annoyances <janneke>some annoyance is probably even a prerequisite :) <janneke>vagrantc: i am really excited about mes entering debian <vagrantc>janneke: i'll maybe work on it a bit more in october to see if i can fixup some of these issues. <janneke>it would be so amazing if we get more debian bootstrap folks on board <vagrantc>and maybe by the time of the reproducible builds summit, we could even see it *in* Debian. <janneke>ok great, there is absolutely no hurry <vagrantc>though that involves an entirely arbitrary wait time... <janneke>i would like to go but haven't come round to planning it yet