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2019-09-20.log

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***ng0_ is now known as ng0
***OriansJ` is now known as OriansJ
<OriansJ>I don't know about anyone else but this week is just kinda making me feel completely drained of energy. Not to mention the whole rms/fsf thing
<Hagfish>yeah, several people have said this week has been a write-off for them
<janneke>this has been a very unusual week for me too
<Hagfish>i guess the aliens in Area 51 really don't want us to find them ;)
<OriansJ>Hagfish: well Area 51 certainly has a kick-ass lazer-tag range; I find their pizza rather embarassingly bad
<OriansJ>janneke: my thought is to do blood-elf in scheme this weekend and M1 next week
<janneke>OriansJ: that's great. i'm making some slow but nice progress with gash' core-utils, mes and the path beyond
<Hagfish>exciting stuff
<civodul>janneke: BTW, since we're finally close to merging core-updates, what would you think of writing a blog post to explain this?
<civodul>i know it's not exactly fresh news for you, but hey ;-)
<OriansJ>civodul: do you think it will be a good time to introduce stage0 as part of the future of the guix bootstrap seed?
<OriansJ>dddddd: any news on how the aarch64 port rewrite is going?
<janneke>civodul: that's a good idea, yes
<janneke>OriansJ: we can always start to prototype it.
<janneke>i always thought introduring stage0 would take much longer, but it seems we're getting really close?
<janneke>as civodul mentions, we're at the point of merging the reduced binary seed bootstrap, that brings the bootstrap binary size from 250MB down to ~130
<janneke>the new scheme-only bootstrap that i hope to have ready in half a year or so (and possibly merge a year from now) should reduce that to ~60MB (basically: guile, mes and mescc-tools)
<civodul>i feel bad that it's taken us sooo long to merge it
<civodul>it's clear that our workflow for handling core-updates leaves... ahem, room for improvement
<OriansJ>janneke: well hopefully the scheme-only bootstrap will reduce down to just the guile binary, once I complete slow-utils
<janneke>OriansJ: yes, also that!
<janneke>i haven't dared to look at how well gash runs on mes yet, that will probably need some work
<OriansJ>janneke: well the gap right now is mes-m2; which when completed solves the stage0 to MesCC bootstrap (assuming the self-host is able to do the full bootstrap to GCC by itself+mescc-tools)
<OriansJ>well slow I can fix, given time and the desire to do so
<OriansJ>In retrospect janneke, I think the amount of work we did together boarders on insane and what remains just seems so small relative to it but still feels so huge for some reason.
<janneke>OriansJ: my thoughts exactly
<janneke>not to mention the great gifts of nyacc and gash, i did only very little work there, and i personally wouldn't have been able to do it without guix keeping me straight
<janneke>but the amazing mental support was here
<janneke>had we been sane, we would have given up two years ago or so :)
*janneke goes for another (6th, 7th?) round of mes-minimal-bootstrap-tarball onto tcc-boot
<civodul>sanity is the enemy of great things :-)
<janneke>civodul: you should know :) ... and thanks :))
<OriansJ>civodul: here I was thinking inexperience in the problem domain simply blinded us until emotional motivators helped our sane problem solving to an epic conclusion
<OriansJ>janneke: you are absolutely right nyacc and gash really helped to fill some important gaps in our work.
<civodul>heheh
<janneke>OriansJ: *lol*
<OriansJ>janneke: also, assuming I haven't broken mes-m2 too much; we may wish to make sure the mes-m2 (built via gcc) to GCC bootstrap path is in order (as the removal of guile from the guix bootstrap binaries will be the largest reduction)
<OriansJ>^reduction^reduction remaining^
<janneke>yes, certainly
<janneke>i still think it would be really cool to merge mes-m2 back into mes
<OriansJ>janneke: actually I was hoping for something a little more ambitious
<OriansJ>especially given once we know the gcc compiled mes-m2 works
<OriansJ>which would put our bootstrap binary size at approximately 932kb by the way
<janneke>yeah, what this project needs is some more ambition, even if it's just a little bit
<civodul>:-)
<OriansJ>janneke: well is it too much to ask after we complete the whole mes-m2 to gcc bootstrap to extend MesCC to the degree it would be able to build guile and gcc 4.7 directly?