<nckx>jcob: I didn't even see it there. I suspect it's pointless at best.
<bonz060>What are the right permissions for: `/etc/guix/signing-key.sec`? I'm getting a `guix publish: error: open-file: Permission denied: "/etc/guix/signing-key.sec"` after updating some server to ubuntu 18 from 16...
<bonz060>I get that ^^ after doing a `guix publish -p 8081`
<nckx>ryanprior: I'm not so sure. It's new to me. Who recommended/sanctioned that hack?
***jonsger1 is now known as jonsger
<nckx>It's possible that it used to work before sha256 was turned into backwards-compatibility macro magic.
<nckx>Magic macros tend to misbehave in ugly ways when passed ‘garbage’, even clever garbage that used to work.
<ryanprior>I wouldn't expect to ever use that in a patch I'd send upstream, but I got the idea from things that work elsewhere (like "#:tests? #f")
<ryanprior>Can you reproduce that hash btw? If you clone that repo and checkout that commit, do you get the hash it reports?
<nckx>I wouldn't expect it to work (which, again, isn't to claim it never did) because origins are content-addressed. If there's nothing to address, that doesn't go well. The URL isn't used as an identifier, just (correctly) as a hint of where to find the file with hash x.
<nckx>ryanprior: Yeah, clean git clone, reset --hard 847a1035a5cd4455af52e29940fbde3785c82df5, guix hash -rx . → 00k05gjcmbgn0a53vn61vahwj68gjm3g263yffvqcr7fxpbfirc4, the hash that Guix says is wrong…
<nckx>So just use 0xkl8sgp302ifba6jyixn4k420940f0pvri853hxa7i7i0ddvqih 😒
<ryanprior>Ah it's newlines? Is there not a workaround for that?
<nckx>There obviously is a broken work-around for it somewhere already, or it would simply be left alone. Something somewhere's trying to be clever while the other path (git vs. Guile-git?) isn't.
<nckx>In that image, red = git clone, green = guix build. I wish it'd been the other way 'round & I could have blamed the git CLI tool for being invasive.
<nckx>ryanprior: Using the hash that Guix produces is the workaround.
<nckx>Since we now know the difference is ‘harmless’.
<ryanprior>How do I view what the guix build checkout is so I can compare them like you did?
<nckx>ryanprior: Well, don't do like me & try ‘guix build <source>.drv -K’, that won't work. I just ran ‘guix build -f vlang.scm --source’, replaced the hash with what guix said it should be, then ran it again.
<bonz060>nckx: I agree. Though I don't know how I'd make that better were I the author.
<nckx>bonz060, ryanprior: Both of you in the mood for filin' bugs tonight?
<luke-jr>also, without using any third-party binaries
<jonsger>luke-jr: it will drop files at some defined locations (e.g. /gnu/store) and it requires user and group for `guix build`. Maybe you go without the users and group, but then you can't build packages at least
<jonsger>luke-jr: I guess you mean the bootstraß binaries which will get downloaded by guix, they are required
<zimoun>civodul: just one question: in ##guix-hpc, the double ## is expected? (IRC convention) Or is it a typo in your email?
<nckx>luke-jr: It sounds like what you call ‘bootstrapping’ is just ‘building’; fortunately we support that just fine 😉 Bootstrapping is what comes before you can build anything. If you have a big honking C compiler on your system you're willing to use, that's not bootstrapping, never has been.
<nckx>raghavgururajan: Thanks! I'm still building ruby-tilt.
<luke-jr>nckx: it's more low-level than that: at any time, the server can just dish you up some JS that sends it the key
<luke-jr>it's why _any_ webapp is fundamentally trusting the server
<raghavgururajan>luke-jr: Oh yes, that is correct and applies to any web application.
<kmicu>raghavgururajan: That’s nice it’s libre but, personally, I would prefer to preview it in Emacs/w3m than to start a js‑powered browser, lost 500MB of RAM, turn on js and look it up only to read handful lines of text. Linking to plain text is more accessible so more folks are able to help.
<raghavgururajan>nckx: I just read the following lines on their site. I have to admit though its true.
<raghavgururajan>Ingenious ideas are simple. Ingenious software is simple. Simplicity is the heart of the Unix philosophy. The more code lines you have removed, the more progress you have made. As the number of lines of code in your software shrinks, the more skilled you have become and the less your software sucks.
<nckx>raghavgururajan: You need to do all kinds of things. Set A52DIR (if not in configure- then in make-flags), patch out ‘include Makefile.a52’, make it (plan A) link to liba52.so instead of trying statically or (plan B) make it use liba52.a from Guix.
<bricewge>Now the hard part is not forgetting it, I don't know why I can't grasp that #$ also unquote
<nckx>Guix isn't very defensive and takes a ‘not a/our bug’ approach in cases where I personally agree on principle, but alienates others. Not the best example but something I wanted to ask anyway: sure, ‘sudo -E guix pull’ is Wrong, but how about adding a sanity check that $USER owns the files whose permissions we're about to clobber? Surely it's a sign that something's up.
<nckx>These VMs/images will all run a Shepherd instance to start your operating-system's services, though. Guix doesn't know how to create a System with other inits. But your host can run anything.
<lambdanon>I see - I ask because I'm making a hyperbola install and I'm thinking of using Guix as much as possible. I saw that in operating-system, there's a bootloader and target argument, and that made me wonder whether things like GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT are available from the bootloader
<nckx>raghavgururajan: Compare it to mine, then, I guess 🙂 It works fine.
<nckx>There's no mkdir anywhere in the Makefile, so that needs to stay.
<nckx>lambdanon: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT is part of the (IMO) horrible ‘meta’ GRUB set up, that uses a shell script to generate a shell script that… So, no, not under that name. What is it ‘actually’, and what are you trying to do?
<nckx>lambdanon: That was my own opinion! I've always found it horrible, years before I used Guix. So I never used it, I've always configured GRUB directly using grub.cfg. The GRUB_foo abstraction hell is surely useful for distros that want to magic away all that, at the expense of incomprehensible (again IMO) complexity.
<nckx>lambdanon: Unfortunately… There are very hacky ways to boot Guix off of a separate /boot partition but it's best to regard it as unsupported.
<lambdanon>So what is the recommended way to set up a Guix system on a LUKS+LVM arch fork? Currently my plan is to install the base system, core utils, and GRUB using pacman, then using `guix system` on top of the base system
<zimoun>civodul: héhé! BTW it can be seen as the first experiment for virtual meeting as we discussed on guix-europe recently. ;-)
<mothacehe>Ok, did you edit the final operating-system file?
<lambdanon>Not at all, I just did the root password, added a user, and set the partition manager to go for the guided encrypted install
<mothacehe>Alright then something wrong is happening as rekado_ said.
<mothacehe>Any chance you lost Internet access at some point?
<nikita`>NieDzejkob: beats me. I had some offensive and defensive security packages, I have many things I didn'gt upstream to guix and probably never can because working on 2 systems is not possible with everything else going on in my life + work etc. i don't really care, like packaging and porting is a skill most people can pick up. if someone would pay me for doing it, sure. i don't know if I mentioned such a
<lambdanon>Maybe? It has been patchy - I'll retry the install and see if the ethernet gets activated
<lambdanon>I've realized what might have caused my problems when connecting to ci.guix.gnu.org. When I saw the "Tor Anonymous Network Router", I thought "Cool! Does this mean that net traffic would be routed through Tor by default? I'm switching that on."
<lambdanon>Yeah. I think what threw me off was that I tried installing guix a year ago and ran into the same problem
<lispmacs[work]>hi, I'm wanting to play around with Gnu Shepherd user services, like in the blog, but one thing not mentioned in the blog post is what facility should be used to start the user instance of shepherd
<lispmacs[work]>I could start it manually of course after logging in, but that would be silly. Is there someway I should start that automatically on login?
<NieDzejkob>I believe you're intended to integrate it into your login manager
<mbakke>now that I have Ganeti, it should be easy to spin up a virtual ceph cluster for testing :)
<nckx>janneke: It didn't occur to me & I'm lukewarm about it but go for it. There's a lot of stuff in Guix that works, at the very least, ‘differently’ on Guix System, it's not something I expect to see documented.
<mbakke>janneke: do you know the story with static linking on the Hurd?
<civodul>efraim: perhaps you should add a news entry to Python 2.4 :-)
<janneke>mbakke: yeah, sure, you can edit /etc/hosts -- but most probably you don't want to do that?
<civodul>it's the only channel that'll give users news from a distant past
<bdju>where's the option to take a fullpage screenshot in icecat? it's a version missing the gcli where you could type commands, but I also don't see the screenshot button in any menus...
<bdju>i found this option set to false: devtools.command-button-screenshot.enabled
<bdju>though toggling it, I still can't find the button
<nckx>janneke: We don't document ‘this programme assumes unix, Guix System isn't terribly unix’ under (almost) every package, because it's a general property of Guix System. But if it could help someone, that's more important and I should let it go 😉 Really not worth the words I'm typing.
<janneke>mbakke: ah, but my wording is too strong, in a way, the "hosts" tool "works", albeit temporarily and is it not the preferred option
<janneke>i was really trying to be helpful, but it seems i'm failing terribly
<nckx>I still think /etc/hosts being editable at all (fail very late, i.e. ‘I rebooted after a month wait where's my hosts file’) is much worse a paper cut.
<nckx>If it fails immediately, frustration/confusion is lessened and people learn intuitively what's going on.
<nikita`>nckx: re gnu/linux license thing: i think it's the person who bought genioulinux.com or what it was and since then has been spaming manually, not even with bots, channels and websites about it
<mbakke>I like doing quick-and-dirty changes in /etc without a full reconfigure, but my workflow is probably not great
<nckx>nikita`: Wait, it's not just a old tired joke about GLAT? I didn't know that.
<mbakke>also, the file is read-only, which is already a warning sign
<nikita`>want to hear another weird thing? I had to talk to our secret service to report an targeted Ad of scientology recently. and I was super skeptic of their reply at first because it looked like it could be either a trojan, a weird messaging system or inability to use computers in an intuitive way. after using gimp to open it I had a good laugh because the Oberregierungsrat at the office had scanned in a letter
<nikita`>which had been printed and written on computer before
<nikita`>this is apparently rather common with courts and higher offices like verfassungsschutz etc
<nckx>nikita`: Is that due to obsolete legislation (‘a foo letter must be printed on blah blah paper to be valid’) or just… utter cluelessness?