<ryanprior>no lmao my guile is actually terrible. I know a decent amount of racket, clojure, and elisp, so my default when writing guile is "write racket and go to the docs when something doesn't work" X.X
<ryanprior>That link indeed looks helpful and I'm bookmarking it
<ryanprior>I'm working on packaging an app that requires libflatpak. guix already packages flatpak- is there a way to require it as a library dependency, or do I have to package it that way specifically?
<bandali>raghavgururajan, looks like lfam just sent a reply on it :-)
<ryanprior>Blackbeard another interesting thing about this (or maybe not interesting & just surprising to me) is that sideload uses the meson build system, but it's cmake complaining about not seeing the dependency.
<ryanprior>It originally complained about not having cmake, so I added that as a native-input, and then cmake complains about not being able to see flatpak.
<ryanprior>I'm trying to build an application (Sideload) that uses libflatpak, but despite using the meson build system, it's failing with a message about cmake can't find the flatpak dependency. I added cmake and flatpak to the native-inputs but something is misconfigured & I'm at a dead end right now looking for clues.
<raghavgururajan>ryanprior In the package definition of flatpak, some dependency might not be propagated. And you package is looking for flatpak with it's deps. Since they are not propagated, it mistakenly tells you it could not find flatpak. But "could generate cargs", I have dealt with gnome packages.
<raghavgururajan>ryanprior As a start, copy all the inputs of flatpak to the definition of your sideload package. Check wether error stops. If so, then try to remove copied inputs one by one and rebuild. Once you hit the error again, then that's the input you need. Keep that and remove other copied inputs.
<ryanprior>Aaaand a little troubleshooting later, we've got a sideload package. Thanks guix!! & especially raghavgururajan, Blackbeard
<ryanprior>Unclear whether it /actually works/, but it builds and runs.
<ryanprior>elais I remember there being some talk about the difficulty of building a bootstrappable CLI, because it requires the CLI to build the CLI, or something like that
<xelxebar>ryanprior: Nice work bootstrapping your packaging skillz.
<xelxebar>Masochistically, I chose a tool which needs an associated service as my first attempt at packaging.
<ryanprior>xelxebar it's been daunting at times! The last time I tried building a few packages, I bounced off pretty hard after working on it almost every day for a couple weeks. I read a ton of docs, did a ton of troubleshooting, and didn't get things building.
<ryanprior>I picked it up again this last weekend and have had much more success. Looking back at my old package files I can see I was really close.
<xelxebar>Holy moly. You must be working on highly non-trivial ones. What exactly did you get working this time?
<ryanprior>I started with packages I hoped would be really trivial. I looked for things with very few dependencies, all of which were already in guix, so I would have a straight shot.
<ryanprior>One thing that gave me much better results this week than before: instead of reading docs and Guix source code, I'm now reading other Guix packages, including grepping in the `guix/gnu/packages` folder for bits of text I think might be helpful.
<xelxebar>Oh, yeah. Pilfering ideas from other working examples is pure gold.
<ryanprior>Trying to piece together guix from the documentation just didn't work for me, I put about 30 hours into that and learned a lot of interesting things but did not build any packages.
<xelxebar>Do you have packaging experience for any other distros?
<ryanprior>Yeah I've done ruby gems, debian packaging, and docker.
<ryanprior>I've also done a lot of Ansible and Chef work which is similar to packaging.
<xelxebar>Hrm. I recall a similar Struggle TM when packaging something for the very first time. It happened to be on Void Linux, but I found the conceptual framework to translate relatively nicely.
<xelxebar>Sounds like you've got a pretty broad range of experience.
<rekado>ryanprior: Guix has a bunch of importers that generate code from upstream repositories
<elais> Yeah I've done terraform which sort of prepared me to package stuff
<ryanprior>I remember struggling for about a week when learning Docker, and I felt like the curve was steeper for guix than for docker. There's still some things I'm not clear how to do, but I feel like I'm making progress every day now.
<rekado>for R packages, for example, that are on CRAN or Bioconductor you can do “guix import cran -r the-name” and it’ll spit out code that is almost ready to be pasted into gnu/packages/cran.scm
<ryanprior>bad could be for free malware samples and rats and stuff, useful to researchers but not stuff you'd want to install outside of your research vm
<ryanprior>I'm in security so I install a decent amount of "bad" software X.X
<elais>I had designs on turning it into a service but then I rage uninstalled Guix System. I'm still working on guixy things but I can't with system right now
<rekado>mbakke: yesterday I ran a very long “guix gc” job to free 2T of data. This did free up 2T of data but in the meantime the used space had grown by 1T. Now we’re back at 3.8T free space, 1T less than we had just yesterday.
<rekado>I see that there are quite a few mcron processes, all running at the same time.
*raghavgururajan is working on packaging GNU Gnash, a good old swf player. It would be useful to play legacy flash files.
<ryanprior>raghavgururajan fyi Gnash is years out of date and never supported modern versions of SWF.
<ryanprior>Ruffle is a free software player that's funded by Newgrounds and others. It also cannot run modern versions of SWF, though. We'll see if they have more endurance than previous efforts. https://github.com/ruffle-rs/ruffle
<raghavgururajan>ryanprior I am aware. There is no flash development anymore. Some good documentries, learning materials etc are only found in swf formats. This app would be good.
<ryanprior>Oh good, yeah I agree there's a ton of web history in swf.
<raghavgururajan>Yeah, primarily educational stuffs like animations for physics, chemistry and biology.
<ryanprior>Ken Perlin's website has a ton of classic experiments in design and animation, but they all depend on Java Web Start which you can't even use with modern browsers anymore.
<raghavgururajan>I learnt DNA replication soley by animation. Text book images was not helpful.
<raghavgururajan>I am glad that atleast CRISPR-Cas9 (tool behind designer-babies) are now in webm format.
<xelxebar>Hrm. I need a full position. Just exited a Ph.D. since the future prospects were looking bleak. Trying to get back into industry.
<nouqfon>Anyone know if it would be possible to (with some work) run Guix on the PinePhone?
***kelsoo1 is now known as spitball
<elais>maybe when we get it working on the pinebook?
<xelxebar>nouqfon: Probably would require a bit of nongnu stuff, at least for the modem blobs
<nouqfon>I see. I would be okay with that for personal use, but I understand that cannot be included in the repos. I'm wondering more about the amount of work involved to get it up and running. I've got a PinePhone on the way and a lot of free time during the summer, so I thought it could be an interesting little project.
<liltechdude>Hello! While I am try to create package from small python package without dependeces I catch bag, that without explicitly add this library to PYTHONPATH
<liltechdude>Hello! While I am try to create package from small python package without dependeces I catch bag, that without explicitly add this library to PYTHONPATH I cannot use this library from python https://paste.debian.net/1142364/ this paste contain package definition and shell output. Sorry for my poor english.
<xelxebar>nouqfon: I can't speak from direct experience, but my guess would be that the work boils mostly down to packaging up the necessary userland utils.
<xelxebar>Not sure if linux-libre would run on it. Apparently it typically runs the mainline kernel.
<nouqfon>I would be okay with compiling the kernel from scratch. Mostly worried about device drivers and such tbh, and also the linux mobile applications e.g. Phosh. How involved do you think such things would be?
<xelxebar>bricewge: Yeah, the PureOS thing confused me. I mean, you need a modem blob unless you don't care about using the phone part of the phone.
<nouqfon>I read on some posts at the Pine64 subreddit (I think it was) that the PinePhone needs drivers not included in the kernel (yet?), so it would need a custom kernel. But like I said earlier I would be fine building the kernel from scratch.
<liltechdude>xelxebar: i dont think that it help, because package works fine. Only I need is add symblink to default PYTHONPATH
*rekado looks into adding indexed search to the log viewer
<xelxebar>liltechdude: Grepping for PYTHONPATH in gnu/packages/ turns up lots of results. Not sure if any of those are helpful?
<xelxebar>Is there a convention on where to place new package definitions inside existing gnu/package/foo.scm files?
<nouqfon`>Thanks, I will have a look. Perhaps I will ask the Gentoo IRC for further help with OpenRC. I had kind of assumed it was something unique to the Guix daemon, but I guess I just have a poorly written config file.
<cbaines>nouqfon`, I'd hope that if you can get start-stop-daemon to use a pidfile, then it'll work fine
<nouqfon`>Could you give me an ELI5 of how pidfiles work? So we can find the pid with the script later on?
<cbaines>nouqfon`, Sure, start-stop-daemon starts the guix-daemon, then writes the PID down in a file. When it comes time to stop the guix-daemon, start-stop-daemon reads the PID from the file, and tells that process to stop.
<nouqfon`>Ahh I see. Thanks. I will read the instructions you provided and give it a try!
<rekado>cbaines: I can’t get a shell on bayfront (ssh authentication works fine). Can you still connect?
<cbaines>rekado, I'll try, it hasn't connected yet.
<rekado>TZander: why did you delete the part that disables widevine?
<anadon>I think the go-1.4 dependancy gcc:lib needs to actually be gcc-toolchain, and to exist as a propagated input. I'm running `go build...` on a project, and the failure related to glibc missing, it using gcc-7.2, and some other weirdness. Thoughts?
<bricewge>bdju: After that I'll try making a service
<mfg>i'm trying to use the texlive-latex-koma-script package, but it seems that kpathsea doesn't find it. When i read the apckage definitino corrrectly it also doesn't run anything special just copies the files into the store. How does kpathsea find latex files on guix?
<rekado>mfg: I don’t know if kpathsea will ever find it.
<rekado>what we do is run a profile hook that generates a TeX Live union and a configuration file + env vars
<rekado>I don’t know if kpathsea ever does the right thing with just that info
<rekado>but the latex, pdflatex, lualatex executables do find it.
<nagamalli>I have a doubt. If i write mulitple package descriptions. the fastest way to make patches is adding ONE description, building, apply lint, commit patch and go for next one . Am i correct? Please suggest
<TZander>What is fastests depends on how good you are with git and with not getting lost with lots of things happening at the same time ;)
<raghavgururajan>How do I rename "configure.in" to "configure.ac", inside package definition?
<TZander>civodul: order is also very confusing. You can call `guix -d 10 -S 9' and no `guix -S 9 -d 10` (or vice versa) because the tool rejects deleting the current. Even though I told it to change in the same command.
<nagamalli>gnome-todo 3.28.1 fails to build with new glib2.0 >= 2.60.0
<civodul>the machine seems to have a reasonable load right now
<rekado>mfg: do you have a test document that we could experiment with?
<Emilia>Hi everybody! I'm trying to install guix the manual way. In my system configuration I have (keyboard-layout (keyboard-layout "uk" "altgr-intl")) under (operating system). I get the following error on guix system init: "build of /gnu/store/....-console-keymap.uk.drv failed". It doesn't fail if I change "uk" to "us" or to "fi".
<bricewge>andrew: Does it occur with big and small substitutes?
<Emilia>The backtrace gives: /gnu/store/...-console-setup-1.194/bin/ckbcomp: Can not find "symbols/uk" in any known directory
<bricewge>Several people including connected trough the ISP Free are having similar speed issues since a week or so.
<mfg>rekado: i'm exporting org files to pdf with lualatex. I'm using the polyglossia package, so i have texlive-latex-polyglossia in my manifest, but lualatex doesn't find it. Ideally this document should compile: https://dpaste.org/yhRd. (Some packages cannot be found and i don't know in which package they are, if they are packaged e.g. amssymb, mathtools)
<andrew>bricewge: Looks like I'm getting arround 30% packet loss from a jump from LA to Hamburg
<jonsger>would be interested if using Deutsche Telekom as ISP causing also troubles, because their peering with dfn (that network before ci) is bad
<andrew>jonsger: Yeah also seeing around 10% loss on a couple dfn hops
<katco>ideally, is it better to author a package based on an importer, or one which pulls from source directly? authoring one from an importer seems like it would remain more maintainable. does anyone have opinions?
<civodul>it would be great if we could get to the bottom of it
<katco>civodul: well, e.g.: i was just considering updating `emacs-slack`, and for fun i ran `guix import elpa -a melpa slack`. this fetches from melpa.org unlike the current version which fetches from github.com
<bricewge>I really don't know how to do about it tough...
<andrew>civodul: I was using mtr as bricewge suggested