<xavierm02>I started 30min ago, so the kernel should be done soon <xavierm02>building /gnu/store/7f5x13jydnrd00k4jd5jz3a0kii5773l-linux-libre-5.2.5-guix.tar.xz.drv... <xavierm02>building /gnu/store/17jlvzkp15p5bbx7d42kiwffa2kz99iw-linux-libre-5.2.5-guix.tar.xz.drv... <nckx>xavierm02: Those are 2 source derivations, by the way. Can't say what they are since the way we build kernels was recently changed (we perform the deblobbing ourselves now). What you see is probably related. <xavierm02>You mean it's not really linux-libre anymore, it's linux minus stuff guix removes? <nckx>xavierm02: It's still linux-libre, we use the same scripts as them, they just run on your machine instead of waiting for the folks at #linux-libre to run them and tar them up. <xavierm02>building /gnu/store/daabph3mfnfcvgnxz8nq13wpzss6y975-linux-libre-5.2.5.drv <nckx>xavierm02: …you weren't actually building linux-libre. <nckx>I'd say the deblobbed sources, but if you're thinking that shouldn't have taken half an hour, I agree. *nckx is uploading the installer. <nckx>lukas4456: Yes. It's a machine-readable ‘recipe’ for building something. <xavierm02>package = nice kind of readable data, derivation = not nice todo list for your computer <xavierm02>you're surprisingly optimistic given how your installation went :D *nckx also prefers Guix, but to be fair Nix has different priorities. <xavierm02>If only they had chosent a statically typed language, it would be perfect <nckx>‘Just working’ being a big one, we just disagree on what's acceptable on that road. <quiliro>sneek: derivation is a machine-readable ‘recipe’ for building something. <nckx>sneek: what is a derivation? *nckx wondered about ‘a’, but just broken is fine too. <xavierm02>that's also the blog post that got me started <nckx>sneek: Bet you suddenly will work when there's a tasty botsnack to be eaten, right? <xavierm02>mostly use to send messages to people that left <nckx>sneek: tell lukas4456 what you are. <sneek>lukas4456, nckx says: what you are. <nckx>See? Proof that sneek is a bot. <nckx>sneek: We love you anyway. <nckx>sneek: What is a Turing test. <kori>nckx: wait, what's nix's different priorities <nckx>No bootstrappability requirement; binary packages are fine. <kori>i thought it was tech-wise different priorities <kori>nckx: seems like i thought right <kori>nckx: is that nix or guix? <nckx>kori: I've been out of Guix for a few years now, I don't really know their current focus. <nckx>kori: No, pre-built binary blobs. <xavierm02>in guix all packages can be build from source, and some have substitutes already built <nckx>kori: Some Nix ‘packages’ are merely ‘fetch this tarball with binaries, extract it to the store, done’. <nckx>ttps://tobias.gr/guix-system-x86_64-linux-1.0.1-1909-g6af4cb30d3.iso.xz <nckx>Apologies for my shitty bandwidth. <xavierm02>in nix, some packages can be built, some packages use already built stuff (including closed-source stuff and other stuff) <nckx>We're a match made in heaven. <nckx>Or crappy German bandwidth hell. <pkill9>nix is more focused on being a linux distribution i think, whereas Guix's primary goal is software reproducibility, though ironically i find guix to be better as a distribution <quiliro>nckx: poor man with a computer...no such thing <pkill9>nix had an untuitive command line when i tried it <lukas4456>not just poor money-wise but poor in general <nckx>quiliro: Reasoning like that makes me uncomfortable, since it's used to discount e.g. refugees who dare own a phone. Computers can be cheap and vital to modern life. <xavierm02>quiliro: Hopefully, a fix that makes a module that lukas4456 needs <xavierm02>quiliro: Hopefully, a fix that makes a module that lukas4456 needs work <pkill9>if a homeless person dates have a smartphone, then they're not really poor <nckx>Meanwhile, that same society: you need to do everything online now we're closing all our offices. <quiliro>i think that it is not a question of dare but of access <quiliro>oh... nckx that could be a good case <nckx>quiliro: I was using dare ironically. <lukas4456>i have a poor situation, i make some bucks with fixing computers <quiliro>if you have access to food, then that means you have access...if you have access to a home, you have access...if you have access to breadband...clothes, transportation, etc <lukas4456>luckily i live at a place where i get help with my depression <nckx>I mean, honestly, the fact that I *don't* own a phone is an luxury I can afford because I'm *not* poor. I have the luxury to tell anyone (boss, government agency, …) demanding I be ‘reachable’ to go fuck themselves and have. Poor people have no such power. <lfam>Remember to not let this turn into a flame war <nckx>Anyway, back to my Guix 🙂 <nckx>lfam: I didn't see any smoke? <lfam>Yes but the oily rags are getting piled up <lfam>It's important to not put too many of them together ;) <nckx>lfam: I think they were just regular rags but I admit the difference is hard to discern without huffin' em. <nckx>lukas4456: What kind of connection is this? If it's unreliable as opposed to just slow, I can cut the file into pieces. <nckx>I'm seeing 50-90K/s, here :-/ <nckx>I've been there (kind of). <nckx>My only connection to the outside world was an iodine (TCP-over-DNS) tunnel, so about 50K/s at peak performance. For a month. <nckx>That was an interesting experience. <nckx>(Then I found another way out which was just as illegal but faster so yay.) <nckx>OK, that makes it sound like I was in prison. <lukas4456>i really hope the bugs are fixed in this image <quiliro>lukas4456: 100kbit/s is slow for guix <nckx>lukas4456: Which bug exactly? <quiliro>or else it takes too long to do anything <quiliro>you forget what you were doing when it is done! <nckx>quiliro: I used an AMD APU (in case you don't know: they have the computing power of a damp cracker) for years while contributing to Guix. It sucks, but it can be done. <nckx>I'd say connection reliability is more important than speed, although of course both are better. <minall>I reconfigured my config.scm, adding one graphics driver: I readed that using -guix system reconfigure- applies the configure when it is done <minall>My question is: Do I have to restart xorg, in order to use the driver, or do I have to reboot the machine? because in that case, the reconfigure didn't start the new configuration <nckx>minall: You probably do need to restart xorg, I don't know if a full reboot is required. <nckx>Not killing your X session each time you reconfigure is definitely a feature, although I don't know if it's a deliberate one. <lukas4456>have i been gifted by Saint iGNUcious with precious bandwith? <nckx>lukas4456: You're now morally obligated to keep trying to install Guix, or at least an FSDG distribution. <nckx>(Traffic gone. Download successful?) <quiliro>cuanto necesitas ganar mensual? ya ganas lo que requieres? <bandali>have any brave souls tried packaging xournalpp yet? <nckx>xavierm02: I just read your response to the dead GRUB bug. <nckx>Interesting, since it happened to me yesterday… <nckx>bandali: Why ‘brave’, exactly? Now that I've learnt of it, I want to try it. <bandali>nckx, haven’t looked at it recently, but iirc packaging it used to be a bitch and a half :p i think <bandali>would love to have a guix package for it tho <bandali>i *think* people recently packaged it for nix <leungbk>`make test` with the latest master branch gives me failing tests for many of the web/json/package-manager things. *nckx already *has* 98.5 problems ☹ <leungbk>I suspect it's an issue with the recent upgrade to guile-json. <leungbk>Does anyone else have similar issues? <nckx>leungbk: I'll try when my CPU is idle. Just ‘make test’ on master? <leungbk>@nckx: Thanks for your response. I think `make check TESTS="tests/swh.scm"` should be enough. <nckx>Besides that I don't know. <Lukas4452>nckx, I think it was all for nothing, I'm very sorry to you all... I wasted your time <vagrantc>Lukas4452: while i can understand it's frustrating... <vagrantc>Lukas4452: it's too bad it didn't work out so far ... <vagrantc>Lukas4452: but try not to get too down about it! <[rg]>nckx: no I mean new to it, I am very impressed by the installer so I want to learn more about this system <nckx>[rg]: Werps, sorry, I confused you with someone else. <nckx>Lukas4452: It's not a bug in the installer, not that that helps you. <[rg]>anyone using guix for small projects, thats also of interest <nckx>It's that Linux & kmod mangling conventions are, I think, a mess, and Guix isn't exactly mess-compatible. <vagrantc>might have the same issue with an installed system <nckx>There is an open bug about it. <nckx>Don't quite have time to find it just now, but it's this exact issue. <[rg]>also cool that guix uses sheperd <nckx>Lukas4452: Could you explan what you did before you got this message? Is this the installed Guix System booting for the first time? Is this the installer itself failing to boot? <Lukas4452>nckx the installer has no problems anymore, but this is after a successful install with the gui installer <nckx>Lukas4452: Do you boot from an SD card? <Lukas4452>But changing sdhci_acpi to sdhci-acpi didn't help <nckx>I *think* this problem could be worked around by editing the generated configuration file and either replacing _ with - (maybe) or by removing "sdhci_acpi" entirely. <nckx>I once fixed this for someone enough for them to boot <nckx>now how the hell did I do that… <nckx>I'm sorry for your experience today. <Lukas4452>I really want guix to work but it seems that I'm not capable <[rg]>can ccache be used with guix <nckx>[rg]: No, not when building software with Guix. Integrating it would be complicated & error-prone, and ccache is great software but never 100% reliable (I say this from experience). It's unlikely to ever be supported. <Guest65>Hello, I am planning on building a pc soon. I was researching which OS to run on my new pc when I found out about Guix system. <apteryx>Guest65: it seems your search was fruitful ;-) <sneek>Welcome back apteryx, you have 1 message. <sneek>apteryx, nckx says: When I run tzselect, 4, 19 on Guix System it jives with what DDG tells me is the ‘time in tokyo’… <nckx>☝ don't know if that's still relevant. <nckx>apteryx: So it's wrong on your system? <Guest65>I would like to install Guix system but I am worried about hardware compatibility. I found that Guix system ships with the linux libre kernel, and my google searches have yielded curious results. <apteryx>even though I've reconfigured multiple times with timezone Asia/Tokyo <Guest65>My research also seems to indicate that I can use linux-nofree kernel with the proprietary drivers. It is just a configuration change. Is this correct? <apteryx>It seems in /etc/localtime it should be JST (rather than JST-9). That -9 accounts for the difference. <apteryx>do the 'timezone' and 'locale' fields of `operating-system' interact? <apteryx>Guest65: it is, although you'll have to find support for this outside of the official Guix channels, as Guix is strictly about free software. <nckx>Guest65: Guix doesn't restrict your freedom to run non-free software (although I honestly don't know of a preexisting linux-nonfree package or how much work it would be to configure), but we can't provide support for it through official Guix channels. <nckx>(*Not* a subtle hint to hit me up ‘unofficially’.) <nckx>apteryx: They really really shouldn't. They don't on non-Guix systems, do they? <nckx>apteryx: My locale is zh_CN and my timezone is Europe/Brussels but it works just fine. <apteryx>nckx: I have never delved in ntpd or timezone much, so I wouldn't know for sure. I'll peek at Guix sources. <nckx>TZ=Asia/Tokyo date → 2019年 08月 01日 星期四 09:10:38 JST <nckx>date → 2019年 08月 01日 星期四 02:10:55 CEST <apteryx>weird. Maybe it's time for me to pull and retry. <Guest65>thank you for the responses. i would like to use free software as much as possible, but i was not able to determine with certainty whether the hardware i will be purchasing relies on proprietary software. <apteryx>Guest65: if you *will* be purchasing hardware, now is a good time to research it so that it runs free software :-) <davexunit>it's easy to mess up. I've done that more than once. <Guest65>the guix manual indicated that wireless network cards are troublesome. but some other sources made me think that there could be many other conflicts besides networking cards. <nckx>davexunit: Buying hardware or setting timezones? <apteryx>laptops usual problem is the wifi chipset, which more often than not relies on a binary blob to work. <davexunit>it's tricky. modern GPUs are basically out of the question. <apteryx>the other is GPU... Intel is the best bet in my experience. <nckx>Lots of people come to this channel because they been fooled by the (completely false) ‘AMD GPUs have free drivers’ disinfo campaign. <davexunit>nckx: I've been fooled by that. bought and returned an AMD GPU awhile ago. <Guest65>yes i was under the impression that amd has free drivers which is why i was preferring them over nvidia. that is not the case? <nckx>(Unless you don't really care about it's GPU-ness but then you probably wouldn't have bought one.) <davexunit>read a ton about free drivers on new AMD GPUs, bought one, and then discovered that yes, the drivers are free, but they require the kernel to load a firmware blob before the drivers can work. <apteryx>nckx: yes, I've bought a R9 285, after buying into the "free software drivers", only to find out it wouldn't work *at all* without a binary blob... No thank you, AMD. A 125 kloc driver which does nothing without a blob? Hard to believe. <davexunit>for some reason none of the docs I read prior to purchase mentioned that. <nckx>Guest65: Nope, it's a pretty aggressive propaganda campaign though so I can't blame you. The drivers are ‘free’ they also hard-depend on binary blobs to do anything. <davexunit>my desktop has, I think, the newest nvidia gpu that works with nouveau <davexunit>I just don't recall the model and I'm not at home <davexunit>otherwise I stick with intel, but I heard that even new intel gpus require firmware blobs? <Guest65>hmm, i guess i'll have to look into graphics cards more then. <apteryx>davexunit: I've heard that too; I'm not sure at what time it started. though. The newest laptop I've run Guix on was a Lenovo T460s (had to use a dongle for the wifi...) <Guest65>are there issues with motherboards as well? i was looking at getting an asus motherboard. i saw mention that the bios can be proprietary in some cases. <apteryx>unless you flash it to something else like libreboot, which works on a very limited selection of machines. <Guest65>does proprietary bios impact guix? or since the bios runs before the operating system, does it not have an impact? <apteryx>Unless maybe for non-essential functionality, I've never seen motherboards being a problem, although my experience is dated. <apteryx>Guest65: It impacts the security of your system, opening attack vectors thourgh the intel AMT or AMD PSP technology <apteryx>these run below (unseen by) the operating system, and have access to the whole system, even network. <apteryx>and are proprietary, so you can't audit (trust) them. ***jje_ is now known as jje
<vagrantc>just being four timezones further east, i see so much more activity in #guix <Guest65>a lot of the information out there about hardware compatibility seems to be at least a little dated. so there isn't an easy list for me to check off. especially when all the hardware i expect to buy is pretty new. <Guest65>but based on your answers i feel the graphics card and the wifi card would be most likely to cause issues. <vagrantc>hardware options are definitely limited a bit <OriansJ>The limitation is to the hardware that have Libre drivers <Guest65>OriansJ what do you mean? do you mean that hardware with Libre drivers are less effective? <OriansJ>Guest65: as in The Linux kernel that guix uses does not have any binary blobs and thus the hardware it supports is a subset of all hardware supported by Linux <OriansJ>Now the hardware that it does support has world class drivers but that was an explicit decision made to ensure no blobs <Guest65>do you have any hardware recommendations OriansJ <OriansJ>Guest65: depends entirely on what your goals are; some people prefer RYF cerfitied hardware and other people prefer having a newer machine with better performance <Guest65>i looked at the list of RYF certified hardware and it seemed to be very limited and didn't even include all the necessary components to build a pc. <Guest65>i would like to have hardware with modern performance <OriansJ>Guest65: well, that is more of a problem of manufactors choosing not to pursue the certification. and as you are more concerned about modern performance purism or system76 systems would probably be a better match for you <OriansJ>remember for some people, it is a better match to install ARCH/debian/Centos on their system and then install guix as a supplimentary package manager to deal with their day to day application needs <Guest65>i am set on using guix system! in the worst case, i would prefer to just install the proprietary drivers. is that a terribly difficult thing to do? <OriansJ>Guest65: assuming you can follow directions and take responsibility for auditing the imported package definition; then it is relatively simple <Guest65>glad to hear that. thank you for the information. <bavier`>has anyone had trouble with our ungoogled-chromium not allowing microphone permissions for websites? <leungbk>@bavier` I've had the same issue. I've always used Firefox when I need to use a mic. <bavier`>leungbk: thanks for confirming. I wonder what the issue could be... <bavier`>unfortunately, this website explicitely borks when used with icecat :( ***raghavgururajan is now known as Guest43568
<Lukas4452>Morning, any news regarding the missing kernel module alias "Linux & kmod mangling conventions" <Lukas4452>How can I patch the installer regarding bug#34902? <Lukas4452>If so, how do I apply the fix in the installer? <Lukas4452>Idea: let people change the config.scm after the Graphical Installer generated it <Gamayun>Lukas4452: Yeah, I think that would be sensible too - at least to introduce it to people upfront. You could always switch to another virtual console to correct the config, though I don't know where the installer might write. Although if you've already run 'guix system init' I guess it'll be put in /etc/config.scm. <Lukas4452>If I try to edit it before initializing, grub fails to boot <Lukas4452>Gamayun grub says it is missing normal.mod then <rekado_>Lukas4452: can you show us the config? <Gamayun>Lukas4452: Hm, should it not be (initrd-modules (append (list "foo" "bar") %base-initrd-modules)) or (initrd-modules (cons* "foo" "bar" %base-initrd-modules))? <Gamayun>Though append should be ok with just one list as an argument... <xavierm02>Gamayun, Lukas4452: It's a bit weird to have append and cons*, but I think append is the identity when given only one list as argument. <Lukas4452>(initrd-modules (cons "megaraid_sas" %base-initrd-modules)) is the default <xavierm02>Lukas4452: (cons a (list b c d)) = (list a b c d), (cons* a b c (list d e f)) = (list a b c d e f), (append (list a b c) (list d e) (list f)) = (list a b c d e f) <xavierm02>cons adds one element at the beginning, cons* adds several, and append concatenates several lists <tune>seems like it's more focused on exploration and combat maybe <tune>looks a lot like cube world <tune>I was gonna try to build it to try it out but I'm quickly unable to follow the instructions I found <tune>it wants me to use a "rustup" command to get nightly rust, and I don't have this rustup command <roptat>Lukas4452, actually, I wonder if you're actually applying the config after you change that file ^^ How do you update your system? <Lukas4452>roptat I don't update, I do system init to install <roptat>Lukas4452, when you start your computer, you get the error message about sdhci_acpi and you get inside a guile repl <roptat>I think you should be able to access guix modules from there <roptat>can you try to run ",use (guix build utils)" and ",use (gnu build linux-modules)"? <roptat>then, you can try (find-files "/gnu/store/<the hash in the error message>/" ".*sdhci.*.ko$") <roptat>if you find something that looks like sdhci-acpi, try to run (load-linux-module* "/gnu/store/<the hash>/<path to the file>") <roptat>and report whatever happened here :) <roptat>(with the repl or did you find what to load?) <Lukas4452>There is a little timewindow where the gui installer crates the config.scm and initialize the new root, running sed over the file to replace the underscore <Lukas4452>#34902 needs to be fixed Pronto, very critical bug <roptat>so what does the file look like now? <Lukas4452>Exactly the same but sdhci_acpi replaced by sdhci-acpi <roptat>Lukas4452, would you like to send another bug report to ask for the installer to allow users to edit the generated config file? <criticalcat>cannot build derivation `/gnu/store/m1bvjvl19191c3vjskarlnplgw8vsbd4-python-pyqt-5.11.3.drv': 1 dependencies couldn't be built <roptat>criticalcat, you probably have a message that gives you a log file name (it should be in red iirc) <criticalcat>when I tail the log it is not immediately obvious (to me), ld returned 1 exit status on Source/JavaScriptCore/shell/CMakeFiles/testair.dir/build.make:94 .. CMakeFiles/Makefile2:616: Source/JavaScriptCore/shell/CMakeFiles/testair.dir/all ... I should paste to a pastebin I suppose. <roptat>yeah, the actual issue is probably just a few lines above that <roptat>indeed, it's notclear what happened from the log <runejuhl>I'm trying to update an old guix system, and it consistently fails on compiling curl 7.65.0, but where it fails changes from run to run; so far it's failed at curl unit tests 1551, 2051 and 2052. Has anyone seen that behavior before? *davexunit may have found a bug in cross-compilation logic related to propagated inputs <runejuhl>These are the versions: failed to compute the derivation for Guix (version: "e7dfbae8a99995abc9f088452ca35371d38eb343"; system: "x86_64-linux"; host version: "71b4974a40347bdc651c3a1f923780733d96ded7"; pull-version: 1). <davexunit>I have a package that propagates a dependency. that dependency varies its inputs based on the target system triplet. however, when transforming a package to a derivation, the transitive-inputs procedure calls package-propagated-inputs without first setting %current-target-system appropriately. <davexunit>and thus my build fails because it tries to build something that is incompatible with the target system. <davexunit>I believe this is a bug, but honestly I'm surprised it went under the radar this long so maybe it is expected behavior? if so it's *very* confusing behavior. <rekado_>davexunit: cross-compilation isn’t done much. Not on the build farm, and many build systems don’t have cross-build support, so it’s not that surprising that it might be buggy. <davexunit>it seems to be *only* propagated inputs that have this issue <davexunit>I've put in a lot of debugging print calls to trace what is going on <efraim>Jan got lilypond to cross compile to mingw but I feel it's mostly been used for bootstrapping <davexunit>in order to reveal the bug, you need to build a package that depends on a package with propagated inputs that vary depending on the target system. I imagine few packages do this. :) <davexunit>however, sdl-mixer does, for example. it depends on sdl, which propagates libx11, libcap, and mesa. <davexunit>when building for mingw, those dependencies must be removed. <criticalcat>Should I be doing "sudo guix..."? I think that's maybe a habit from yum/apt tools. <roptat>criticalcat, that shouldn't change anything <mbakke>rekado_: how is the wip-texlive branch doing? can it be merged? *mbakke wants to push some staging patches, but want the other branches in first to prevent needless rebuilds <davexunit>rekado_: I think I have the bug partially fixed. seems to work for non-graft cases. gotta figure out what's making grafts act weird. <Marlin1113>how can i build a package from a .scm file which defines a package? <Marlin1113>guix build: error: #<unspecified>: not something we can build <roptat>Marlin1113, the file needs to return a package object <roptat>(define-public ...) returns nothing,or #<unspecified> and that's what -f tries to build <roptat>just put the name of the package at the end of the file, as the return value <jfred>Hey - so it looks like running "guix system init" doesn't populate /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow in the generated FS tree, at least for the root user. Maybe that happens on first boot? If so, is there an easy way to trigger that prior to the first boot? I haven't been able to track down where that logic is in the guix source yet <Marlin1113>do i just write the name? or something like (package "packagename")? <roptat>alternatively, if you defined the file as a guile module, put it in a directory that reflects the module name (my module my-package) must be in my/module/my-package.scm and use -L <directory where "my" is in> <roptat>just the name, since it's a variable bound to the package definition <roptat>jfred, we don't populate passwd before first boot (it's actually overriden at every boot iiuc) and shadow is not modified by guix I think <jfred>roptat: Hmm... there should still be a shadow file generated initially through, right? <Marlin1113>the -L method works, but if i just put the package name and try the -f, it returns "wrong type to apply" <jfred>For some context, I'm trying to build an image for an existing system that sets a guest's root password by modifying /etc/shadow on initial boot <Marlin1113>and it seems like there is neither a makefile nor a setup.py <mbakke>jfred: I suspect the initial /etc/shadow is created at first boot, too. <xavierm02>What do search-path and native-search-paths do exactly? <xavierm02>"A list of search-path-specification objects describing search-path environment variables honored by the package. " <roptat>xavierm02, the idea is that if you have that package in a profile, and other packages (or itself) that contain the specified path, then etc/profile will define the variable <nckx>xavierm02: Search paths are environment variables like TERMINFO_DIRS, XCURSOR_PATH, TUXPAINT_STAMPS_PATH. <roptat>like, the guile package defines the GUILE_LOAD_PATH variable to be lib/guile something, so if you install guile and any package that contain this path, GUILE_LOAD_PATH will be defined in that profile <xavierm02>Ok. My exact question is: Why does qt have search-paths and qtsvg does not? <roptat>because qtsvg doesn't need a search-path <roptat>rather, it doesn't read a search path <roptat>but in the case of qt, it would make sense to propagate the search-path specification <roptat>because it's a library, any user of that library will potentially need the search path <roptat>but we don't have propagated-search-paths, do we? <nckx>roptat: No, search paths aren't propagated. <xavierm02>Ok so. If qt has a search path QT_PLUGIN_PATH defined to lib/qt5/plugins, and qtsvg writes stuff in lib/qt5/plugins, and LyX works if you wrap to set QT_PLUGIN_PATH to be the /lib/qt5/plugins/ of qtsvg, LyX should also work not wrapped, no? <rekado_>xavierm02: currently this would only work if qt were installed into the user’s profile, because that’s where QT_PLUGIN_PATH is set. <roptat>(as well as qtsvg because it inherits from qt) <xavierm02>And what the difference between search-path and native-search-path? The native one is only set at build time? <rekado_>“native” really only has meaning when cross-compiling. <rekado_>native inputs are inputs that are of the host architecture, not the target architecture. <roptat>couldn't we propagate the search-paths at the package definition level, and then record them in the profile manifest, like we do for just the package currently? <rekado_>what means “propagate at the package definition level”? <roptat>i don't know how the search path definitions are written in the profile manifest in the first place <roptat>package-transitive-native-search-paths does that, but only for propagated inputs <roptat>why do we want to "find the subset of useful search paths"? what does it mean to be useful? <xavierm02>Why does the ./configure not set the localstatedir to /var automatically? Is it for Guix on other distros? <roptat>because of the GNU standards I think <davexunit>because it violates the convention that the default value of localstatedir is $prefix/var <nckx>(‘But $prefix/var basically never makes sense in Guix's case’ — absolutely, but that's the convention.) <roptat>rekado_, so, in (guix profiles), in package->manifest-entry, instead of using package-transitive-native-search-paths, use something that does the same, but with any input, and not just propagated ones. Would that work? <pkill9>what's the difference between openjdk and icedtea? <nckx>Answer from a non-Java person: I think icedtea is dead, so that's a big one. <nckx>Or unneccessary at least, now that openjdk is <something>. <nckx>pkill9: I was predictably wrong, it's not dead. I do remember reading somewhere that it (a separate free OpenJDK build system) is less necessary now than it was in the past. <nckx>rekado_: Do the MDC firewall changes allow whitelisting domain names? <mbakke>nckx: staging is open for business <mbakke>I have 18 commits queued, but wanted the texlive stuff merged first to avoid needless rebuilds <mbakke>nckx: don't worry about that though, just push your changes ;) <nckx>mbakke: I've actually changed my mind so have no changes to push :-p but thanks! <xavierm02>Is there some shorted way to do "$(guix package --search-paths)"? <xavierm02>Is there some easy way to share bash history between inside and outside guix environment? <nckx>xavierm02: It already is. <nckx>guix environment guix → type foobizzle → exit → cat ~/.bash_history <xavierm02>nckx: Erm. I just tested, the history is not shared :o <xavierm02>Maybe it's because it took commands from another terminal <nckx>xavierm02: Re-read what I wrote. <xavierm02>Ok. So the history is shared but bash doesn't use it. <str1ngs>I think you can have bash write and read from history in sync <nckx>xavierm02: I spent time looking for a link that answers your exact question. Please read it. <Lukas4453>My computer does random loud noises permanently <roptat>pkill9, nckx icedtea is a build system for a JDK, but it's not needed from openjdk 9, so java 6 to 8 is packaged as icedtea-1 to icedtea-3, and from 9 to 12, as openjdk-9 to opnejdk-12 <nckx>roptat: Thank you! That is more than I could ever hope to remember 🙂 <xavierm02>nckx: I did read it. I was just saying that the shell commands you provided showed that the same history file was used inside and outside guix env. I already knew how to share history between all terminals but it'd break the "Up arrow + enter" workflow. <nckx>weedloser: Because they are running Guix… <nckx>Lukas4453: Is it through the speakers? Maybe plugging in a pair of earphones for now would at least make it bearable to work on the thing. <xavierm02>I would've liked history to only be shared inside the terminal. I guess it'd be posisble by naming the history file in a way that depends on the terminal instance but that'd require some tinkering <weedloser>>my computer is making random noises > ican't turn it off <weedloser>i had the impression it was a hardware problem <ItsMarlin>just gotta get through the cryptic build instructions the dev gave on the git page <nckx>Also, why does disabling audio make your computer make more noise. <nckx>Lukas4453: Absolutely nothing special or unusual. <nckx>Guix just uses ALSA + PulseAudio like ‘everyone’ else these days. <nckx>xavierm02: So what you want is <type foo> <run guix env> <tybe bar> <exit env> <UP> <see bar appear>, right? <nckx>One way I could see that work is making guix a shell function that calls ‘command guix "$@"’, then does the ‘history -a/-r’ dance. <nckx>That will allow you to keep one history file, but I'm sure there will always be ways to accidentally ‘cross-contaminate’ sessions if you're mixing different guix environment calls in different terminals. <Lukas4453>I tried to reconfigure for fun, now I can't build hash-system.drv <nckx>Could you paste as much output as possible to paste.debian.net? <raingloom>is something wrong with git-minimal? i'm getting a checksum error.... <nckx>raingloom: For what? The source? At run time? <raingloom>nckx: when building a different package that requires it indirectly <nckx>raingloom: To the pastemobile! <raingloom>nckx: "hash mismatch for store item '/gnu/store/pn8l10w9hjmglag2z72bawfj8m6ccwrq-git-checkout" <nckx>How could I reproduce this? <raingloom>nckx, (this is a local checkout of the guix sources with an updated idris package) <raingloom>hmmm, how does one copy the contents of a tmux window...... <nckx>raingloom: Just from the vibe of that message I'm going to say it's a daemon error. <raingloom>nckx, hec. it's a Debian VM with guix installed via the installer script thingy <nckx>raingloom: Primary selection (‘middle click’) doesn't work? <raingloom>nckx, it does but i only see some of the "pane", tmux does its own scrolling <raingloom>(this is why i hate anything that uses curses >_>) <nckx>You could also ‘guix command | wgetpaste’ or ‘guix command | xclip’, both in Guix if you can still install stuff. <nckx>The latter might require some clipboard sharing extension that we don't provide, though. <nckx>I read over the ‘VM’ part. <nckx>raingloom: It is an aptly-named library indeed. <raingloom>nckx, i only have SSH access it's running on a friend's machine because I didn't have enough RAM to build Idris 2 :C <nckx>wgetpaste should work, though. Just make sure it's the latest version of the Guix package because it used to default to a dead bin. <nckx>Or, y'know, guix > foo, scp foo, feel drrty all day. <rekado_>raingloom: “hash mismatch for store item '/gnu/store/pn8l10w9hjmglag2z72bawfj8m6ccwrq-git-checkout” is not a message about git. <rekado_>it’s a message about something that was fetched with git. <raingloom>rekado_, the previous message was about it downloading "git-minimal", hence my confusion <raingloom>rekado_, not sure what's mismatching then, but i'll do a triple check <nckx>raingloom: Could it be just your custom idris package? <raingloom>nckx, no, that installed fine, but it might be the Idris2 package <nckx>I can't get Guix to report any mismatches when building upstream idris. <nckx>Maybe I'm substituting something but I don't think so. <rekado_>raingloom: that’s why we use (file-name (git-file-name name version)) when using git-fetch. <raingloom>nckx, yeah, Idris 1.3.1 is fine, I patched it 1.3.2 (for which I'll send a patch... soon? tonight?) and that installed fine on both machines, and now I'm trying to use Idris 1 to build Idris 2, which is a different thing <rekado_>if it isn’t used “git-checkout” will be the source name. *nckx AFK, I wish everyone well with their outstanding problems, but I don't actually have time to IRC and it really shows. <raingloom>rekado_, where would that be used? in the package description? I just used the usual origin template from the tutorial ***Lukas445` is now known as Lukas4452`
<xavierm02>Lukas445`: nckx said: AFK, I wish everyone well with their outstanding problems, but I don't actually have time to IRC and it really shows. ***Lukas4452` is now known as Lukas4452
<xavierm02>just read /var/log/guix/drvs/pm/m3zai6v4ikk7cp0x8d2byl8jpmxvsy-etc.drv.bz2 <xavierm02>if you don't want to extract it, install atools <xavierm02>and then you can use the usual commands with an "a" before to extract <xavierm02>So here, you probably want to acat /var/log/guix/drvs/pm/m3zai6v4ikk7cp0x8d2byl8jpmxvsy-etc.drv.bz2 <davexunit>xavierm02: was this just recently added? not a package on my system <xavierm02>davexunit: without the s? It's atool, not atools <xavierm02>it's my bad, I remembered the wrong name ^.^ <xavierm02>Idk but the questionmarks look like they shouldn't be there... <Lukas4452>and in more general i would just love to see guix working after 1 week of trying and without annoying issues <Lukas4452>i discovered so many bugs and had to work around them <Lukas4452>just to have my laptop screaming for its life <pkill9>the questionmarks are just markers to show that there is more on that line that has been cut off from the output *Lukas4453 is awesome at breaking Guix <pkill9>Lukas4453: what does the shell autocomplete to when you type /gnu/store/xlczrb<TAB>? <Lukas4453>Which is probably the cause of my broken system which makes a screaming noise all the time <pkill9>Lukas4453: could you try moving /etc/asound.conf to /etc/asound.conf.orig and then reconfiguring again? <pkill9>can you post the system config you're reconfiguring with? <pkill9>yea remove it, it's part of %desktop-services, so your config has two alsa services <pkill9>that's why it says file exists, because it's trying to put /etc/asound.conf there twice <pkill9>does it do it with any other distro? <pkill9>i would try removing gnome-desktop-service-type and %desktop-services to see if they're causing it <Lukas4454>Is a driver ticking out? How can I see the boot log <nckx>All found in (gnu packages): (properties '(hidden? #t)), (properties '((hidden? #t))), (properties '((hidden? . #t))) [which I considered correct]. <nckx>‘PROPERTIES must be an association list describing “properties” of the derivation.’ So they were never pairs at all? Hm. <pkill9>well, it will help to narrow down the issue <Lukas4452>[ 5.030611] Error: Driver 'pcspkr' is already registered, aborting... <pkill9>i would think so because pcspkr is the "system beep" i think <pkill9>you can blacklist it from loading with a kernel argument <pkill9>add "modprobe.blacklist=pcspkr" to the kernel arguments (according to archwiki) <nckx>Guix explicitly supports that syntax too, so it's cool. <Lukas4452>*** #guix was created on 2013-01-21 03:45:45 <Lukas4452>*** raingloom (~raingloom@BC9CE99E.mobile.pool.telekom.hu) has quit: Remote <Lukas4452><Lukas4452> [ 5.030611] Error: Driver 'pcspkr' is already registered, <Lukas4452><Lukas4452> could this be the cause? [23:17] <Lukas4452>*** drrty (drrty@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/drrty) has quit: Remote <Lukas4452><pkill9> i would think so because pcspkr is the "system beep" i think [23:18] <Lukas4452>*** drrty (drrty@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/drrty) has joined channel <Lukas4452><pkill9> you can blacklist it from loading with a kernel argument <Lukas4452><pkill9> add "modprobe.blacklist=pcspkr" to the kernel arguments (according to <Lukas4452>*** roptat (~roptat@lepiller.eu) has quit: Ping timeout: 250 seconds <Lukas4452>*** drrty (drrty@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/drrty) has quit: Remote <Lukas4452>*** roptat (~roptat@lepiller.eu) has joined channel #guix <Lukas4452>*** drrty (drrty@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/drrty) has joined channel <Lukas4452>*** raingloom (~raingloom@BC9CE99E.mobile.pool.telekom.hu) has joined channel <Lukas4452><nckx> Guix explicitly supports that syntax too, so it's cool. <Lukas4452>*** ItsMarlin (~ItsMarlin@179.177.181.186.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) has quit: <Lukas4452>ERC> maybe we can try getting it working instead of disableing it <pkill9>nckx: what do you mean it explicitely supports that syntax? <nckx>pkill9: Guix doesn't use modprobe. <Lukas4452>[ 4.967940] input: PC Speaker as /devices/platform/pcspkr/input/input23 <nckx>Lukas4452: It seems to be, based on a quick search. <Lukas4452>/etc/config.scm:18:19: Wrong type to apply: "modprobe.blacklist=pcspkr" <xavierm02>(a b c) means "apply the function a to the arguments b and c" <xavierm02>'(a b c) means "the list containing a, b anc c" <rekado_>instead of “acat” (never used that) use “zcat” or “zless”. <Lukas4454>Still screaming btw after adding (kernel-arguments '("modprobe.blacklist=pcspkr")) <nckx>rekado_: Er, those don't work on bz2 files. <pkill9>you could try using a different version of the linux-libre kernel, guix has a few versions packaged <nckx>(The zutils versions I posted for review do, however.) <nckx>(I'd never heard of atool until now.) <nckx>Lukas4454: How did you know that it still loads? <rekado_>nckx: oops. (I only have gz compressed logs here.) <pkill9>Lukas4454: what happens if you run `sudo rmmod pcspkr` when it's running? <nckx>*reading the backlog a bit* Y'all realise what the ‘PC speaker’ is, right? It's not the speakers your PC has. <nckx>Lukas4454: And ‘grep /proc/cmdline pcspkr’ shows the blacklist argument? Weird. <buhman>how do I build packages that depend on a different version of gcc? I see gnu/packages/gcc.scm has other versions defined, but I think 5.5.0 is always selected due to (define-public gcc gcc-5) <pkill9>i thought pc speaker is either an internal speaker for system beeps, or a 'virtual' device that emits system beeps through the normal audio output if an internal physical device doesn't exist <Lukas4452>input: PC Speaker as /devices/platform/pcspkr/input/input22 <Lukas4452>rmmod: ERROR: Module pcspkr is not currently loaded <buhman>somewhat related: I tried using GUIX_PACKAGE_PATH to build from my customized gnu/packages, but this was broken in strange ways. Is there a better way to do this? <pkill9>buhman: a cleaner way is using guix channels <nckx>pkill9: That's snd-pcsp. <buhman>hmm, can (url) be a local filesystem path? <nckx>Lukas4452: So pcspkr isn't loaded at all. <nckx>buhman: (native-inputs `(("gcc" ,gcc-8))). <pkill9>buhman: yes, by prepending it with "file://", which is passed to git <nckx>Lukas4452: No. Might be snd-pcsp, try blacklisting that, but I don't think it's likely. <pkill9>so it needs to be a git repository and the changes need to be committed to it <buhman>nckx: isn't that a (package) thing? I'm slightly confused; would I need to do that for each package? <rekado_>Lukas4452: try pavucontrol or alsamixer to mute what can be muted. What’s left is not your soundcard. <buhman>Lukas4452: are you sure that isn't the pulseaudio master? <pkill9>try pavucontrol (in the pulseaudio package) <kkebreau>Is anyone here running guix built from core-updates on their system? ***Lukas4454 is now known as Lukas4452
<mbakke>kkebreau: I'm using core-updates, though not GNOME. <mbakke>Lukas4452: you need to blacklist both "pcspkr" and "snd_pcsp" <mbakke>Lukas4452: how did you blacklist them? <Lukas4452>I found the module generating that but it disables my whole sound system <pkill9>so it stops the screaming, but also any sound? <Lukas4452>God damnit please someone on this Earth surely knows how to solve this <rekado_>Lukas4452: you could perhaps open up the machine and remove the speaker? <rekado_>to recap: all sound is muted and there’s no speaker kernel module loaded; yet there’s sound. <rekado_>if there’s still sound and it’s annoying I’d suggest disconnecting the speaker. <Lukas4452>I don't fucking break the laptop I bought 3 days ago <pkill9>maybe it's a known issue with a known fix *kkebreau returns from silent disappearance <xavierm02>What do you people use to get to the doc of some guix thing fast? I tend to search the web for "guix <thing>" but there should be something else <xavierm02>And the doc in html format, not in a terminal <kkebreau>mbakke: Okay, does running 'guix pull' fail for you? I get an error each time. <kkebreau>ERROR: In procedure scm-error: re-exporting local variable: AT_SYMLINK_NOFOLLOW <kkebreau>The master branch version of Guix doesn't give this error for some reason. <kkebreau>xavierm02: It depends on the subject. I usually use 'info guix' and search for related terms, then search the web, the source code and finally the minds of other Guix users and developers. <mbakke>kkebreau: I guess you are on a commit prior to 456c7ade095cce96f47389c37a4fe3b0390047fd ? <mbakke>Lukas4452: so is intel_atomisp2_pm your audio driver? <kkebreau>mbakke: I can only guess, as 'guix describe' gives me a commit that apparently doesn't exist??? <kkebreau>Oh wait, okay... I'm on commit 497b2d39427af4aaddbaa8922d4a6a858bbdaee7 right now. <mbakke>kkebreau: odd. I could pull from b16e08279938fae329e62154da749860bdccef04 to 7f5f61ae99321a7a6e08b0100cd428e11ce6a837 at least. <mbakke>Lukas4452: which kernel module was the audio driver? <Lukas4452>snd_soc_sst_cht_bsw_nau8824 snd_hdmi_lpe_audio <Lukas4452>I need to disable pulseaudio to test something, how do i do that? <sebboh>Can I disable some 'profile hooks'? This "XDG Mime" thing takes a long time and this is a headless server. <sebboh>(at least, a message about XDG Mime is the last line on the screen for a while--if it is doing some other thing, it didn't mention it.) <kkebreau>Lukas4452: Try running "echo autospawn = no >> ~/.config/pulse/client.conf" followed by "pulseaudio --kill". <sebboh>the GTK+ icon theme cache can go, too.. 
