<rvgn>mbakke How's core-updates going? Any major issues so far? <mbakke>rvgn: According to `guix weather`, not great. <mbakke>We only have substitutes for ~40% of all the packages. <mbakke>Presumable the rest are failing. <mbakke>Most things using Boost are broken. <bavier>the boost package itself builds though? <rvgn>mbakke So core-updates will be merged to master, only after we have substitutes for all packages? <mbakke>rvgn: Correct. On all architectures, too. <mbakke>The coverage is even lower for non x86_64. <civodul>mbakke: on the bright side, we have 2 more ARMv7 build machines now <emacsomancer>are there any examples of =linux-module-build-system= in use anywhere? <Dynamicmetaflow>I was wondering if anyone has continued the work from this thread in the mailing list of, Re: Building a secure communications server <rvgn>Dynamicmetaflow: Woah! If they use guix instead of debian, it's gonna be even better. Imagine you wanna have mutiple freedom boxes and all you need is one config file. <Dynamicmetaflow>rvgn: Yes, my thoughts exactly. There are other projects too like yunohost that do what's similar to freedombox but also it's based on debian. I'm interested in exploring this and other ideas I have and was wondering if anyone has done this beforehand <rvgn>I am interested in them too. <Dynamicmetaflow>I'm hoping to do a write up on some of the ideas and what I'm hoping to accomplish <rvgn>Also one thing I dislike in free software community is that, reinventing the wheel. Assuming yunohost started before freedombox, fb folks should joined yh instead of starting another project. <Dynamicmetaflow>I think it's a double-edged sword in that sense, it's what makes it resilient, unique and amazing while at the same time multi-layerd and complex <rvgn>The number of existing GNU/Linux Distros can be reduced to half. <rvgn>That's why liked Hyperbola project a lot. They combined two already existing projects arch and debian. Clever I would say. <rvgn>The project scope was cleverly planned. <apteryx>there must be swaths of people using x200 here; has anyone experimented with Btrfs + compression when used with an SSD on such machine? Does it improve or aggravate performance? <apteryx>I'm thinking to configure my root fs with Btrfs + compression=lzo <rvgn>I have not used GNU/Linux system without graphic shell. Is it possible to use multimedia with just window managers? No xorg and no graphic shell. <gnutec>I use Abrownser in Trisquel. Try a wait change to Guix without lose data. <rvgn>apteryx Thanks! So all web pages and web applications work just fine? <rvgn>I wonder how's that possible without graphic shell/server, as some web pages require webgl ?? <apteryx>well, out of the box it blocks all non-free javascript, but you can disable the addons if desired. <apteryx>it will also not run any DRM (no netflix for example), but I like that. <apteryx>it's does more than Firefox in trying to protect your privacy. <apteryx>I've used it as my main driver since 2016 <quiliro>apteryx: you use a gui without XXXXXXX <rvgn>apteryx I just tried to open icecat from tty, it would not open without gtk. <rvgn>I think multimedia can never be played on a system without graphic server like xorg or wayland. <rvgn>even mpv failed to open a video from tty. <dwagenk[m]1>Rvgn: it is definitely possible to play video in a Xserver/wayland free system. I think it's gstreamer, but I moght be mixing it up with a different programm. It works either directly on a framebuffer device or the GPU. I've seen it being used to display fancy boot animations on embedded linux devices. <apteryx>rvgn: ah, sorry, I failed at understanding your requirements (no X) <apteryx>I thought the question was general :-) <rvgn>dwagenk[m]1 Thanks! I meant a display server free system. Framebuffer is still a display server but just with no output. ***jamesrichardson is now known as Guest60198
<civodul>efraim: we had one, which we removed because it was unmaintained <nee`>buenouanq: I think libarchive which is used by file-roller should support rar. <nee`>The unrar package was extreamly outdated and won't open any rars that were created after some early date like 2006 or something. <rvgn>efraim I updated gpa and tried again, still did not work :( <ison[m]>What about packaging unar for rar files? <efraim>Rvgn did you try installing gnupg? <rvgn>efraim Not yet. Will be doing shortly. <rvgn>It's just having extra package bugs me. Seems like my OCD is talking. <rekado>audio processing latency is already pretty damn low. <dwagenk_com[m]>rvgn: regarding the video output without display server: as far as I know gstreamer can run as soon, as you'd get the first kernel log output on a connected display. <rvgn>dwagenk_com[m] Thanks! I will look into it :) <rekado>turns out that using any other tmpfs will be faster than using /dev/shm, even if it is mounted as a tmpfs. <civodul>oh, so it's just about mount options? <rekado>in my test with chromium TMPDIR=/dev/shm meant a build time of 11:40min; with TMPDIR=/mnt/tmp which is a 10G tmpfs it was 7:29min. <rekado>I think /dev/shm might be special. <rvgn>rekado What is the diffrence between device files (/dev) and device drivers? <janneke>creating a profile with two packages that differ only by version and not by name throws an error, even if they have no overlap in their content; a union build or environment is fine <civodul>janneke: you can do "guix package --allow-collisions" <civodul>normally we'd give packages a different name in that case <g_bor[m]>I have seen that there is some work already on the core-updates ant-bootstrap issue. <janneke>civodul: tnx...how do i use that in a system profile, i.e. config.scm? <civodul>you can't use that in a system profile *janneke is rewriting a bunch of packages, giving them only a new name <janneke>that seems very silly, but the silliness may well be inside myself <civodul>i'd say that if there's no overlap, then they *are* different packages <civodul>at least that was the assumption when we design that collision detection thing <janneke>it's web content for several versions/releases of a packages <civodul>actually, there's another thing you could do: you perform the union yourself and you add that to the profile <janneke>not really, i'm wrestling with it somehow <civodul>rekado: BTW, could you ask IT to allow us to talk to hydra-slave{1,2,3}.netris.org (see machines.rec) <janneke>yes, i'll do that; that's nicer; putting a packagen in (packages ...) seems so much easier, that's all <davidl>Hi, I have a repository which I want to use both as a package channel and as a repo for the program itself. Is it possible to define something like .guix-channel-ignore that can be used to exclude scheme-files or dirs from being evaluated by guix pull? <janneke>davidl: yes, .guix-channel takes a (directory "somedir") slot now <davidl>janneke: great, how recent? I am locked to a 1 month old guix commit or so at the moment. <davidl>alright. Well Im gonna have to upgrade then =) <g_bor[m]>I have noticed that we have some warning building the de and ru texi-s on core-updates. <g_bor[m]>Should these be rectified, or are they harmless? <roptat>g_bor[m], they're harmless I think *civodul learns IRC commands *efraim only knows /me and /trout <efraim>it wasn't even /trout, i misremembered <rekado>civodul: I’ll open a ticket for hydra-slave{1,2,3}.netris.org; it’s just SSH, right? <civodul>rekado: i've just added hydra-slave2 (via a tunnel) <rvgn>efraim gpa worked when installed gnupg in my user profile. Was there any permanent fix you found out? <civodul>we spend lots of time building qtwebkit, and that always fails in the end <efraim>rvgn: installing gnupg was the best option I found, I didn't see a way to link it to dirmngr <efraim>civodul: there's a newer version out, 5.212.0-alpha3 <rvgn>efraim I see. So the issue is with upstream? <civodul>efraim: maybe we should give it a spin <efraim>I think upstream assumes you have dirmngr and maybe also gnupg installed <efraim>civodul: I suppose it's worth a try, I can try it out on bayfront <rvgn>efraim The dependencies mentioned are gpgme and gtk2. <efraim>civodul: patch applied cleanly, now to wait a while <rvgn>efraim That's odd. How about Trisquel. It worked there too and I did not have gnupg installed separately. <efraim>rvgn debian's 'apt-cache show gpa' says that it depends on gnupg (>=2) <rvgn>efraim So trisquel had gnupg pre-installed I guess. <efraim>run-time-depends only lists gnupg, gpgsm and gpgme <rvgn>efraim Anyway, is it possible to modify package defintion of gpa in guix, to include gnupg as input? <efraim>rvgn: so it's possible that our gpgme doesn't properly link to gnupg <efraim>it's already included as an input, I don't think it should be a propagated input though <rvgn>efraim Ohhh. So we may be lloking at the wrong package. gpa instead of gpgme. <rvgn>efraim anyway to check and fix gpgme-->gnupg link? <efraim>rvgn: I can, but probably not today <civodul>i heard about Spacewalk, a web service for RPM distros that allows you to manage upgrades for a set of machines <civodul>it tells you for each machine which package upgrades are available, offers to install them, etc. <civodul>nope, i just saw a live demo by a colleague of mine :-) <kirisime>The wireguard package has a kernel-patch output which contains a single .patch file. What's the least painful way to add it to the list of patches for a custom kernel definition? <Fzer0>Does anyone use the "skeletons" function in the Operating System configuration. Could i send files from a git repo to the home directory? If so, does anyone have an example? <civodul>kirisime: maybe something like (file-append (gexp-input wireguard "kernel-patch") "/whatever.patch")? <rvgn>Dynamicmetaflow: Appears similar to ansible and kubernetes. <civodul>kirisime: and you would add that to the 'patches' field of the linux-libre's 'source' <minall>If I were to add a debian package, what should I do?, I mean, where are the libraries of guix, or what are the main things that I have to count, from debian to guix <tqbl>hi. what would be the least painful way to install guix without root permissions? proot? <tqbl>there is nix-users-chroot for nix. is there something similar for guix? <Dynamicmetaflow>rvgn: Yes, seems to be similar. I'm curious if some of the functionality that is offerred by Guix could be integrated with it. <vagrantc>minall: i've got a debian package of guix mostly working and have been uploading the dependencies to Debian <rvgn>Dynamicmetaflow: `guix deploy OPTIONS ARGS` <vagrantc>minall: biggest thing missing is guile-gnutls ... <vagrantc>minall: several dependencies are stuck in NEW review <rvgn>tqbl: guix daemon runs as "that" user. So if you run as non-root user, then it runs as non-user. <Dynamicmetaflow>rvgn: Thanks, I looked into guix deploy yesterday and it's great. I was looking into foreman today and it's interface and features I found it interesting and was wondering how both could be combined <rvgn>Dynamicmetaflow: Ah I see :) <tqbl>Dynamicmetaflow: i came across a guide where they managed to use proot <Dynamicmetaflow>I was hoping it was designed in such a way that it was abstracted where it could be used independently. <tqbl>samplet: ah, that's the one i was thinking of <minall>vagrantc: THanks!, which packages do you have working which you ported for debian? <minall>For example, I would port some packages for debian to guix, since there's some packages that are not available <roptat>minall, you'll have to build everything from source, you can't cheat and import a binary package ;) <vagrantc>minall: i was talking about .deb packages of guix and it's build/runtime dependencies <vagrantc>it would be very interesting to generate .deb packages with guix archive, though :) <Dynamicmetaflow>tqbl: Ah, thanks for some reason I haven't look at that specific document in the past when browsing that repository. I don't have experience using proot, I hope someone else in this channel is able to help you out. <vagrantc>roptat: yeah, that's the spur of the moment idea :) <civodul>roptat, vagrantc: that could be implemented using 'checkinstall' <minall>I understand now, thank you guys! <tqbl>Dynamicmetaflow: i wouldn't mind using proot, but that guide made the point that it adds a layer of indirection. they solved it by building guix with the store location changed. <tqbl>so proot is no longer necessary <tqbl>... but that's quite long <vagrantc>only two dependencies left to package guix in debian, guile-git (blocked on acceptance of scheme-bytestructures) and guile-gnutls (blocked by the debian gnutls maintainer... ) <vagrantc>any rough ideas on the next guix release? <tqbl>civodul: thanks. i saw that too, but isn't that just for using 'guix pack' bundles? perhaps it can be adapted, though. <civodul>you can make a relocatable pack of guix itself <jfred>ooo, a deb package generator would be neat <minall>Imagine something where you can add the deb package, and the dependencies and the package is added <minall>And it will point out things that probably will be 'missing' and you have to add manually <vagrantc>manually does not sound compatible with either guix or debian packaging <minall>But it will be easier, since there are a lot of packages on debian that I would like to use on guix, and wish to add them, I don't know how thought <vagrantc>probably better to just package them properly for guix <tqbl>civodul: that's an interesting idea. i will try it out. <minall>I mean, that with the .deb package, it generates a package.scm for example, and the program will point out: 'oh i couldn't find the download page, or the dependencies' and the user would add it manually by editing the file, and then test it, it would be easier I think <vagrantc>ah, like a "guix import debian" ... might be hard to pull off <minall>Let's say, I want to add a package, I get the source code <minall>Now what, do I have to do a script from scratch to add the package? or is there otehr ways <roptat>if it's from a source we support in guix import, you can import it (it's what you described: it gives you a package definition and you tweak it until it works fine) <roptat>we can do that for pypi, opam, cran, elpa, ... <roptat>many language-specific package managers <roptat>but for a debian package that's not from these repositories, you should write your own package definition <minall>And how do I see if it is 'supported on guix import' <roptat>this gives you the list of importers, if polari is in one of them, you're lucky <roptat>otherwise you'll have to write the package definition yourself <roptat>you can have a look at the control file from the debian package to have an idea of what build system you need <roptat>(they are all listed in the manual) <roptat>probably the gtk-or-glib-build-system by the look of it <g_bor[m]>It seems that building jikes with gcc-5 fixes the java bootstrap on core-updates. <rekado>g_bor[m]: I couldn’t confirm that. That’s one of the first things I tried. <rekado>I used gcc-5 for all three initial Java bootstrap packages. <rekado>same as before. ant-bootstrap fails because Classpath misbehaves, even if jikes is built with gcc-5. <g_bor[m]>rekado: yes, I was too early to conclude that it fixes it. <rekado>same for building jamvm-1-bootstrap with gcc-5. <g_bor[m]>I will have a look around the graph. to see if there is another obvious candidate. <rekado>I used glibc-2.28 as an input, but I don’t recall in which of the packages I tried it. <roptat>php is taking forever to build on my small arm board :/ <minall>I don't get that gnu is an upstream, where can I see which packages are in the gnu importer <rekado>g_bor[m]: I’m building jikes, jamvm-1-bootstrap, and classpath-bootstrap with glibc-2.28 now <roptat>on a java-related note, I'm now trying another approach at getting to the maven-build-system: instead of building dependencies from bottom-up, I'm trying to build the maven-build-system and build one package from source and binary dependencies downloaded from the maven central <roptat>the idea is that I can focus on the build system, and then replace binary packages with source packages (with binary dependencies if not yet in guix) <roptat>it should also give me a better understanding of what is required for the build system and what breaks <minall>So if the package is not here, I should make the script from scrath right? <roptat>if I replace a single binary by a source-built package, and it doesn't work, I know where to focus my efforts <roptat>whereas before I would build every dependency and go up the dependency tree, and when I encountered a problem, it could be because of a dependency burried three levels deep in the tree <roptat>of course I'll reverse the order of my patches when I'll send them to guix proper :) <minall>How should I run a .jar program? <roptat>you can use icedtea or openjdk (newer) and its "java" program (java -jar my-program.jar) <rekado>something wrong with how it uses fibers. <roptat>oh finally finished building php! <rekado>g_bor[m]: built all three with glibc-2.28 and gcc-5. No change. <rekado>uhm, I just got past the configure stage in icedtea by using gcc-5 and glibc-2.28 in all Java bootstrap packages up to that point. <lispmacs>I'm thinking I shouldn't have tried out Guix for the first time on a 1.6Ghz machine with 1GB of RAM. Into Day 3 of trying to build ungoogled-chromium <rekado>roptat: nah, still with the memory leak patch. <lispmacs>but the percentage bar has been going up, so that is a good sign. Up to 84% <lispmacs>I am somewhat curious how it decides which percentage point it is at <rekado>lispmacs: if the build returns progress information then Guix can use it and display it. <lispmacs>praying there isn't a power outage, no battery backup on this box <mbakke>Dynamicmetaflow: Not since 2016. <lispmacs>is there a command to check what checkout of the guix repo your system is currently use? <quiliro>civodul: Kio oni trovas novajojn Guix-an? <lispmacs>I installed xfce desktop, but the only utility I seem to have for viewing cpu usage is top. is there a package for something a little fancier without installing a new desktop? <lispmacs>pkill9_: can I install that into my user profile or do I need to edit config.scm? <lispmacs>does package manager allow me to start a second install while the first one is still building? I've wanted to install some small packages but have been waiting the last frew days for ungoogled-chromium to finish <mbakke>lispmacs: It is safe to run multiple Guix commands at once, but they will each create a new profile generation, which might be confusing. <mbakke>There is a bug report about it somewhere. <Dynamicmetaflow>mbakke: Are you still using a combination of Debian + Guix for Ganetti? <Dynamicmetaflow>I came across your posts on the mailing list about ganetti and has prompted to research it further. <mbakke>Ha, been busy with other stuff ;-) <mbakke>Dynamicmetaflow: I think all dependencies are in Guix, but we need to patch Cabal. <mbakke>You up for a packaging challenge? :) <lispmacs>mbakke: so, after both install commands had completed, would the profile I ended up on have one app, the other, or both? <Dynamicmetaflow>mbakke: lol understandable, I'm interested in using Guix + Ganetti and maybe creating a web interface using artanis as a wrap around to everything. Looking to use to self-host FOSS applications and deliver them to non-profit organizations who care about security and against surveillance etc <mbakke>lispmacs: I think the latest command to finish will "undo" the generations created meanwhile :/ <mbakke>the packages will be in your store, of course, but you need to install them again.. <Dynamicmetaflow>mbakke: I would be intersted! I think I want to work up to packaging Ganeti, I need practice. <lispmacs>can I check if a substitute is available before trying to install a package? <quiliro>lispmacs: without --fallback , it will install the substitute <quiliro>kiel ni povas instali la apertium-an vortaron? ***dwagenk_com[m] is now known as dwagenk_com[m]1
***amiloradovsky1 is now known as amiloradovsky
<quiliro>no language pairs on apertium...how to install them? <michalthegnuwbie>hello! I was wondering if you guys can help me install iwlwifi. I just installed GuixSD and have no idea how to get started with that! <roptat>michalthegnuwbie, I'm afraid it's a non free driver, so you won't get help here :/ <roptat>however you can buy an external wifi dongle (usb) for cheap that will work with the guix system <michalthegnuwbie>yeah, but that's a bit of a hassle to carry around. I do understand that you guys are 100% pro-freedom, however I still think your cause would benefit if you helped me install it. <roptat>I use a tehnoetic dongle, it's really small (although not very powerful) <mbakke>lispmacs: Use the -n (dry run) flag to see what will be done. <Fzer0>Does anyone use the "skeletons" function in the Operating System configuration. Could i send files from a git repo to the home directory? If so, does anyone have an example? <bavier>nckx: thanks for updating c-reduce; did you have any difficulty building the latest version? I had tried updating it a week or two ago, but had linker issues with the latest clang. <ArneBab>quiliro: uzu apertium-get -l ; apertium-get eo-de? <ArneBab>arne@fluss ~$ LANG=C apertium-get eo-de <ArneBab>awk: fatal: cannot open file `apertium-eo-de/configure.ac' for reading (No such file or directory) <ArneBab>/home/arne/.guix-profile/bin/apertium-get: line 193: ./autogen.sh: No such file or directory <roptat>ArneBab, probably need to fix the shebang in autogen.sh? <Tazy>is there an info to see if packages would be compiled or used prebuilds before actually commiting the install command? <Tazy>ie. if i install icecat, it compiles rust. <Tazy>ah dry run is the better solution, weather is still, looking.. thanks <quiliro>ArneBab: ./autogen.sh: línea 35: autoreconf: no se encontró la orden <quiliro>./autogen.sh: line 35: autoreconf: command not found <ArneBab>quiliro: guix install autoconf automake *rvgn is way out of his sleep cycle <tchrzcz>Hello, I'm installing GUIX from a DVD and it has been building sqlite-with-column-metadata for the last 3 hours. Is that normal? <rvgn>quiliro Saw your email about freedombox. <rvgn>Couldn't guix replace the exsisting os just fine? <quiliro>rvgn: we could guix import freedombone from apt packages <quiliro>i do not think it would be so trivial <quiliro>i like freedmobone more than freedombox <quiliro>i think many packages that freedombone adds are not part of debian...they are git cloned ***dwagenk_com[m]1 is now known as dwagenk
<quiliro>freedombone is a bunch of bash scripts <rvgn>I have to look into that more. <quiliro>that install and integrate the tools <quiliro>ArneBab: ./configure: line 2365: syntax error near unexpected token `APERTIUM,' <quiliro>./configure: line 2365: `PKG_CHECK_MODULES(APERTIUM, apertium >= 3.0.0, , PKG_CHECK_MODULES(APERTIUM, apertium-3.2 >= required_apertium_version))' <quiliro>ArneBab: after.... LANG=C apertium-get eo-es <ArneBab>quiliro: this sounds like it might be better to package all the languages right-away <Tirifto>A shell I spawn in an emulator should inherit environment variables from the login shell (or whatever shell GNOME is using), for GNU+Linux in general, right? <rekado>tchrzcz: have you authorized our substitute servers? <rekado>tchrzcz: if you haven’t you will build everything from source and that can take a very long time indeed. <tchrzcz>I don't know, I just went with the graphical installation. <tchrzcz>Well, it does say "substitute: updating substitutes from..." <nckx>bavier: I had 0 issues building or running the new c-reduce on an (admittedly artificial) test case… <nckx>quiliro: How goes the qt-i-forgot-what packaging? <nckx>Tirifto: Only if you started a login shell to begin with. Usually GNOME(-hell) is started by GDM, which spawns your terminal emulater, which spawns a (non-login?) shell. <nckx>Err, *GNOME-shell. That wasn't even on purpose, I promise 🙂 <Tirifto>I see; thank you, nckx! And sure. ;P *bandali adopts the phrase GNOME-hell *Tirifto trusts nckx by his first interpretation (or casts an offended stare at them by his second) (just kidding :P) *nckx rewrites i3 in JavaScript as penance. <sneek_>rvgn, nckx says: I received your ‘test’ /msg, but could you explain what you were trying to do? You're aware that I run a bouncer and am always ‘on-line’, right? <sneek_>rvgn, nckx says: So I wasn't actually there when you sent it. <rvgn>nckx I was trying to add you as contact on my xmpp roaster via xmpp-irc bridge. <nckx>Aha. Well I guess it worked. <rvgn>nckx what's a bouncer anyway? <nckx>rvgn: It's a piece of software, often run on a separate, hosted server, that sits ‘between’ your IRC client and the IRC server(s). It can log everything (incidentally, this is how the logs.guix.gnu.org hack is done), provide scrollback when your client logs in (so I can see if somebody mentioned me or sent me a msg even when I'm disconnected), and many other things. <nckx>I use ZNC. It's in Guix, but I haven't cleaned up & pushed the service I use. <rvgn>nckx Oh that one. I think I encountered something like that before. <nckx>rvgn: Rrright, that's subtly different, I don't think it speaks IRC to the *client*. ZNC does. <nckx>I might be off, though, I don't use Quassel. *rvgn received an email with weird tone from the help mail list. *nckx didn't actually check whether logs.guix.gnu.org exists before mentioning it. Uh-oh. <nckx>rvgn: Yeahhh… You have no idea how much willpower I'm excercising right now not to send my draft response to that :-/ *nckx has their pseudo-project-representative hat on so won't. <rvgn>nckx Just read about ZNC. It same as quassel <bandali>nckx, would appreciate it if you or rekado would post your znc service :) <nckx>rvgn: With the difference noted above, that ZNC speaks IRC to the client, Quassel last I checked did not. It's an important difference but if it doesn't matter to you Quassel is probably ‘nicer’. <rvgn>nckx Hmm. You could just send that. Could be your opinion. <rvgn>nckx No no. I meant functionally same. *rvgn enjoys xmpp-irc bridge provided by disroot.org <Minall>Guys, Do you use Emacs?, why?, and in that case, what extensions do you use, I'm learning Emacs, but I don't know how far or what things can I add to it *nckx enjoys some coffee. <Minall>Or some tips and tricks that u use a lot *rvgn admires extensibility and modularity of xmpp <pkill9_>i use emacs because it comes with some decent guile handling, and for magit <rvgn>I started to learn emacs but was kind of tuff. Propbably because of using libreoffice for years. <rvgn>Wait why my messages appearing so late <nckx>‘…and with that, he XMPP honeymoon was over.’ <rvgn>nckx Hahah. Nice try. We still not getting divorce :P. <rekado>bandali: I have no service. I just run it on my netbook/server and connect to it with my laptop. <Minall>Well emacs is amazing, I actually started learning it and couldn <Minall>couldn't separate from it, but is there a page that explains how far can you go on emacs, for example <biotim>I like the keybindings in emacs, and the customizability is great. I can configure it to really maximize the amount of screen real estate for text. I use it with magit, org-mode, helm, ESS, cider <rekado>Minall: as far as you want, really. You can replace your window manager, embed a graphical web browser, view PDFs… *rvgn got reminded of his old hyperbola days, despite the tone in that email. *nckx sent a minimal response. The question's genuine, although I fear the answer won't be. <rvgn>nckx I have no idea where and how to respond to that. *nckx now sees the reply to rekado and wishes they hadn't, damn. *nckx will not be making pocket money after all. <Minall>Embed a web browser? can you embed video? <rvgn>Oh yeah, I did not see that before <Minall>Can you, for example, access gmail or something? <bendersteed>Minall: there are lots of mail clients for emacs, gnus, rmail, notmuch, mu4e. eww is a simple but usable web browser <nckx>I don't think the GMail Web interface will work though. Maybe if they offer a standard HTML version. <nckx>And it's not hobbled to push Chrome. <Minall>But I would prefer to use a more -complete- browser <bendersteed>well if you want to go this far there is exwm, so you can run icecat as an emacs buffer <nckx>Whoa, what am I looking at. <nckx>Is that just a dumb wrapper? Can it use emacs(-like) key bindings? <bendersteed>I think that no-one has done this job, but could be done <bendersteed>it was a big deal when emacs 25 was released but the hype wasn't realised *nckx is waiting with bated breath for emacs 27 which will have… an 80-column marker \o/ 