<str1ngs>(@ (mod mod) proc) references a public procedure directly <str1ngs>(@@ (mod mod) proc) references a private procedure directoy <str1ngs>so it might be safer to say it references bindings directly from a module <pkill9>in Haunt (static site generator written in guile), in part swhere it generates HTML, it adds a "class=..." using those, but they don't seem to reference a procedure, for example "(table (@ (class "table"))", what's happening there? <str1ngs>pkill9: haunt is a special case. (@ (id "foo")) is used to build attributes <pkill9>how does Haunt change what the @ is used for? does it "overwrite" the original use (referencing public procedures)? Or does it it repurpose it, i.e. still refer to public procedures but in a way that generates HTML attributes? <str1ngs>I don't think the two are related in this case <str1ngs>when I mentioned @ earlier I was not aware of the context sorry to confuse the issue. <rekado_>pkill9: @ is simply the SXML marker for attribute lists. Note that this is not code, it’s data. <pkill9>rekado_: does it change the functionality of "@" from the default (referencing public procedures)? <dadinn>i have some trouble installing the binary install, due to the install script failing because of pgp keys... the gpg keyserver doesn't work and I can't get the keys to verify the downloads <dadinn>This is a recurring problem, you either need a way to override this in the script, or fix the fucking servers... <Minall>Where can I find the modules that contains awesomeWM? I'm trying to install it ***MinceR_ is now known as MinceR
<rvgn>Does wine/wine64 in guix comes with gui front-end? ***affinespaces_ is now known as affinespaces
<g_bor[m]>What I would need to get along with the gnasg browser plugin, is to see what trisquel is doing. <g_bor[m]>So far I could not find an easy way to inspect their packages. If you could help me out there, then I might come up with something. <cbaines>no problem, just wanted to make sure we're talking about the right thing <g_bor[m]>yes, most of the times it is not very useful without the browser plugin, which is npapi, latest supporting browser being 52-esr. <g_bor[m]>We don't have that, so I did a build without it <cbaines>at the bottom, the link to gnash_0.8.11~git20160608-1.3.debian.tar.xz contains the Debian package recipe <cbaines>it looks like quite a complicated package, producing many binary packages <g_bor[m]>Ok, I belive I can enable the plugin build with packaging npapi-sdk, but we still don't have a browser that can pick it up :) <cbaines>morning civodul, I hope you had a good trip back :) <cbaines>civodul, yeah, it went pretty smoothly <civodul>had to get up at 6am, so i'm still somewhat jetlagged <cbaines>even though my flight was as 10:45, I ended up getting up around 6:30 am also... which was a bit early <civodul>yeah! good that it's manage to process all these commits :-) <civodul>actually, when it's late, it might be able to benefit from substitutes <cbaines>however, the derivation numbers look off, so I'm wondering if something went wrong with processing the derivations... <civodul>BTW, the "target" column shows things like "mips64el-linux", where it should be "mips64el-linux-gnuxyz" <civodul>where's the page to display diffs between revisions again? <cbaines>civodul, I took the form off the home page, as I didn't think it was that useful. I need to fix the comparison feature as it's a bit broken in places <civodul>also querying the other way around, like you type "ruby" and it shows you the versions with a link to commits where that changed <cbaines>As for the system/target stuff, yeah, maybe I'm misusing the systems as the targets <cbaines>civodul, is there an ideal way of constructing the appropriate target GNU triplets for a package? <rekado>dadinn: the GPG server pool is not under our control. <rekado>sneek_: later tell pkill9 no, SXML does not change the meaning of @. It is data, not code. Just like '(@ (guile) string-append) does not “change” the meaning of (@ (guile) string-append) — one is a list containing of a symbol, a list, and a symbol, while the other is syntax. <g_bor[m]>do I have to do anything special before updating postgresql? <g_bor[m]>I believe we keep the old packages when doing that, am I correct? <g_bor[m]>I would rather avoid breaking services for users... <g_bor[m]>ok, it seems that if I avoid changing the variable name then it will work out just fine. <civodul>cbaines: you cannot guess what the triplet will look like, it's a different notation <civodul>hey roptat! had a good trip back? :-) <g_bor[m]>I am wondering though, if it would worth to introduce a variable like we do in java, and flip that when the default changes... But given the stateful nature of this, maybe it is not a good idea to change the default at all, and expicitly request the package in the service... <g_bor[m]>civodul: I remember a bug maybe a few weeks ago, where the conclusion was to always inherit in the same module. <g_bor[m]>I can't find that discussion right now... <g_bor[m]>Do you remember what conditions trigger that problem? <roptat>civodul, yeah, the train stopped 20 minutes before Rennes though <civodul>g_bor[m]: yes, it has to do with unresolvable circular dependencies when two modules refer to each other's variables from the top level <roptat>but I met an engineering student in the train and we talked about guix ^^ <roptat>no, it just stopped for ~15 minutes <roptat>they said the signals told the driver to stop, but I don't know what happened exactly <roptat>civodul, you can re-activate the overdrive at my place <roptat>the ssh-daemon didn't start at boot <g_bor[m]>civodul: ok, the I am on safe ground. In channel code I usually have a single package per module, that ensures that the module graph is a dag. In this screnario it seems to be safe to inherit in another module... I wanted to be sure that this is safe to do. <roptat>ok, I'll attempt an upgrade of guix and reconfigure <civodul>let me know if you need to reboot so we can disable it first <roptat>PotentialUser-49, I don't think so <roptat>PotentialUser-49, although there's no theoretical limit to what kind of kernel could be supported by Guix, it's "just" a matter of porting it <str1ngs>no, that would defeat repeatable builds <str1ngs>You could though maybe in theory use ccache as CC. to temporary test a build incrementally but after would you would want to disable that for the final build. <civodul>the store is a build cache, though :-) <str1ngs>the store is a much grander scale of input and outputs :P <arshin>civodul: it's very "functional" though, right? if the next package changes only 1 file then guix will recompile the whole thing anyway <civodul>so it's coarse-grain compared to ccache <civodul>every time i run "guix upgrade" i have to remember to do "guix install guile-json@1" after that... <civodul>mbakke: glibc-mesboot-2.16 has parallel build failures <civodul>(underspecified makefile dependencies leading to random build failures in parallel) <civodul>it had failed to build on berlin, so i restarted it and it worked the second time <civodul>we could build it with #:parallel-build? #f to be on the safe side <nee`>Hey, I 'guix package -i' installed elixir, it has git as input and hardcodes a path to it, but when I run 'guix gc' it removes the git binary and the elixir package breaks. Shouldn't installing elixir prevent git from beeing deleted by gc? <nee`>Also I can get the same git build by doing 'guix build elixir', but not by doing 'guix package -i git'. <str1ngs>nee`: it hard codes the git executable path? <str1ngs>maybe it's being substituted? in which case the input should not be gc'd if it's in a root other wise known as an active profile <nee`>PotentialUser-25: it was in a manual upgrade of elixir I made in a git checkout of guix. <rekado>civodul: last night when I lay awake I thought about this Guile JSON problem… <rekado>does Guix need to provide an upgrade path or can the switch to the latest version be instantaneous? <civodul>rekado: it can be instantaneous, we just need to upgrade (guix self) i guess <rekado>I thought that the easiest way forward would be to load a compatibility wrapper instead of (json) directly. <efraim>Not good on the freedom side, but the new RPi 4 was just announced with up to 4GB of RAM <str1ngs>hmmm I don't think inputs get gc'd like that <nee`>PotentialUser-25: I thought it only has to be in propagated-inputs when the path is not hardcoded. And that both inputs and propagated inputs should be gc protected. <str1ngs>I think the issue here is installing with ./pre-inst-env guix but GCing with host guix <nee`>str1ngs: Ah does that cause problems? I didn't know. <str1ngs>I'm not confident to say yes, but it could be a factor <str1ngs>please test gain but this time gc with ./pre-inst-env <roptat>I don't think it should make a difference <nee`>str1ngs: ok will test it <roptat>if elixir is referenced from a gc root, and it itself references git by its store path, git should not be garbage-collected, independently of which guix you used <roptat>maybe there's a reference to git that wasn't substituted during package building? <nee`>both 'guix gc --list-dead | grep git' return '/gnu/store/5hyjiyjzfhlnh5zzrqwnf8z9ywyy97q1-git-2.20.1'. So it would be deleted by either. <roptat>can you try 'guix gc -R `./pre-inst-env guix build elixir`'? <roptat>does it reference a git variant? <nee`>roptat: no it doesn't, but I noticed the master branch elxir is 1.8. My manual upgrade is still 1.7. Does it list it for you in 1.8? <roptat>nee`, can you make sure you're running guix from ~/.config/guix/current/bin/guix and run 'hash guix' (to remove bash's command location cache)? <roptat>if you update guix recently, you should have the latest version of elixir <nee`>I'm upgrading everything now. 'type guix' says /run/current-system/profile/bin/guix. I hope this isn't a problem anymore, but it was a weird case because I thought git being an input should prevent gc. <roptat>no, only propagated-input are protected from gc, as well as anything referenced by its store path <roptat>so if 1.7 didn't embed a reference to git's store path, it's normal that git is gc'd <nee`>Thanks for the help everyone. I'm glad to have learned about guix gc -R. <nee`>Eh, I can't build elixir 1.8 because the tests have a 60s timeout now, which is too short for my server. <pkill9>weird, i had a dream where i acknowledged to myself that i started using Guix since july last year <sneek_>pkill9, rekado says: no, SXML does not change the meaning of @. It is data, not code. Just like '(@ (guile) string-append) does not “change” the meaning of (@ (guile) string-append) — one is a list containing of a symbol, a list, and a symbol, while the other is syntax. <pkill9>rekado: I mean the part where it lacks a reference to a procedure, e.g "(@ (id "foo"))" instead of "(@ (id "foo") procedure)" <pkill9>oh actually i think i get it, when it's data, it's completely different to it's meaning as code? <pkill9>and in SXML those @ parts are data? <rekado>it’s just a convention with procedures acting on that data <rekado>the sxml->xml converter takes the symbol “@” to mean the beginning of an attribute list. <rekado>a piece of data can be evaluated as code with “eval”, but that’s not what happens with SXML. <rekado>(eval '(+ 1 2) (current-module)) <rekado>this evaluated the quoted expression '(+ 1 2) — a list of three atoms — as code within the context of the current module. <rekado>SXML is not a quoted programme. It is not evaluated. <pkill9>cool, thanks for helping me understand <rekado>no problem. If you want more examples hop over to #guile and we can discuss this further. <nckx>rvgn: ‘winefile’, or ‘wine explorer’, although I don't know why the latter is badly themed and lacks a menu bar. <nckx>There isn't a big ‘Welcome to Wine! Where do you want to go today?’ fungui because Wine is a set of libraries, not an application. <nckx>Oh, and ‘winecfg’ allows you to configure Wine. A bit. <demotri>I have a `guix publish` service running on one machine. On a second, I start a `guix gc --verify=repair`. It starts a download of a missing store entry, but always gets stuck after 16KiB transferred. Any ideas? <roptat>interesting, coq 8.10 (beta) tests then checks all files :) <civodul>you should register it on the "delta" :-) <civodul>demotri: weird, anything on the stdout/stderr of 'guix publish'? <demotri>civodul: With wget, I'm hanging at 320K. No erros only the GET info: GET /nar/gzip/9alic3caqhay3h8mx4iihpmyj6ymqpcx-guile-2.2.4 <civodul>roptat: i dunno, did someone hack it while going back home? :-) <civodul>demotri: can you try stracing 'guix publish' to see when it hangs? <civodul>where PID is the PID of 'guix publish' <demotri>civodul: Good idea. I will try that. <demotri>Last line of my strace: 29957 write(27, "\347\331\224K\207\244\34\rN\31\301\262\256\232\332J}4\352\330Je=y,B\335\210\260b\225\326"..., 65536 <demotri>civodul: Actually I don't care. The only thing is, I want that store-entry back. It was lost somehow, but it is a guile-2.2.4, it is essential, and pretty nothing works without it. <demotri>Can I do a "guix import" on it? This command doesn't import it, because it (should) be there. "gc repair" is only looking at substitutes, not at local files. Hm. <demotri>Any other idea on how to get that store entry repaired? <civodul>demotri: you can do "guix archive --export -r" on one end and "guix archive --import" on the other end <Marlin[m]>I got an error saying chicken-install can't access the filesystem at /gnu/store and ends up not being able to install <civodul>Marlin[m]: yes, and also it sounds like a packaging issue in that chicken-install shouldn't try to write to /gnu/store <civodul>instead it should probably write to /var/chicken or something <Marlin[m]>same happens with python pip and similar stuff <demotri>civodul: "guix import" is not importing it, probably because it already exists (or at least should). Maybe I will reinstall the server, seams to be the fastest and cleanest way <roptat>demotri, guix import is for importing package definitions from other package managers ;) <demotri>roptat: I meant "guix archive --import", sorry. :-) <roptat>civodul, should "delta" be a remote database or embedded inside guix's code? <civodul>roptat: it would be a service, but probably with a CLI <civodul>for those reading along, a "delta" is a "bunch of channels" :-) <civodul>we discussed the idea of a channel registry in Strasbourg this week-end <bavier>what does the idea of a "delta" provide? *bavier who is just starting to get comfortable with channels <roptat>it's a way for users to look for existing channels <roptat>we were looking for "a bunch of channels" <roptat>and found "delta" but if you find a better name... <roptat>channels listed there should respect user's freedoms of course <bavier>I suppose the name also works as in "difference", since channels offer a way to differentiate your guix <roptat>so an example would be my channel with multiple versions of coq (including a beta version), a channel with every version of perl that are still supported, etc <roptat>anything that is free software but doesn't belong in guix <roptat>so I've looked a bit at artanis, it looks fun :) <roptat>but it won't work unless I create /etc/artanis/artanis.conf :/ <cap>Greetings. I'm a bit overwhelmed by guile. Can anyone recommend a guid to learn how to build configfiles for guix? The page about the configfiles in the guix documentation is not enough for me. <cap>Also, is it possible to have the file system configuration in a separated file? <str1ngs>cap: you can have the file system in a separate file. you could define the file-system field as a variable in fs.scm and then load that file with (load "fs.scm") and use a the a variable in place of file-systems field <str1ngs>cap: though if you are new to system declarations. I would avoid this complexity for now <str1ngs>cap: also there are pre existing system templates. I would start with one of those, the cover most use cases. ***langdon_ is now known as langdon
<bavier>OriansJ: your bootstrap cc is on HN front page <cap>str1ngs: Thank you. I see your point but the default configs were not covering my usecase, so I decided to learn it the hard way. :) Where do I need to put the fs.scm? ***langdon_ is now known as langdon
<str1ngs>cap: if you put it in the same directory as your config, then you can do this. (load (string-append (dirname (current-filename)) "/fs.scm")) <str1ngs>cap: I have not tested that, but in theory that should work.. :P <str1ngs>also keep in mind if you plan to copy to /etc/config.scm then this breaks your config. <str1ngs>also (current-filename) in some cases does not expand right. but in this case it should. if you are having problems just hardcode the full path with (load "/path/to/fs.scm") <quiliro>cap: i suggest to use the config in only one file until you understand guile better <quiliro>guile is the language used for guix and guix config files <cap>quiliro: I copied a config to another system, without changing the filesystem config and reconfigured… so I just wanted to make sure, this wouldn't happen again. <cap>quiliro: beside this I'm trying to get wayland running <civodul>mbakke: hey! we'll have to patch or upgrade Guile on core-updates due to a bug in the (web server) module of 2.2.5