<str1ngs>an added caveat qtwebengine may not be included in Guix without major reworking. so this is highly unofficial
<erudition>so how would a user go about installing a simple little piece of software like "pithos"? Guix doesn't appear to have it, but it's in just about every other distro, so is there a way to run it without writing a recipe and all that?
<kkebreau>rekado_: Thanks for the info. I'll contact mbakke.
<xavierm02>erudition: (1) Install nix (2) Install your thing with nix (3) Pray for it to work
<recj>seems that you basically need to run 2 commands that involve their build script, so should it be trivial build
<nckx>recj: Could be. Note that the trivial build system is *really* hands-off: it won't even unpack your sources for you or patch shebangs. Sometimes that's what you want, sometimes it's both easier & cleaner to use gnu-build-system and delete/replace a few phases instead.
<erudition>would anything go horribly wrong if I installed guixSD over an existing Kubuntu partition?
<nckx>Speaking only for myself: my mother's laptop is the only Ubuntu installation I manage. But that's more because of the lack of multi-media and (ew) Flash (ew) support when I installed it years ago. Guix System might almost be mother-proof now.
<erudition>that would be awesome if Guix was mother-proof, since it's effectively rolling-release, I wouldn't need to do upgrades haha
<erudition>this thing had Kubuntu 16.10.... not even upgradable anymore haha
*nckx was thinking ‘you mean upgrade twice a day??’ but right, that kind of upgrade. *shudders*
<erudition>yeah lol canonical yanks the archives to non-LTS versions so quickly
<nckx>(Guix doesn't make the distinction: ‘updating’ emacs is ‘upgrading’ it. The manual uses both.)
<erudition>ah. yeah, you don't "upgrade" a package, you "update" it, but when you're ready, you "upgrade" the whole system by installing a bunch of updates that would have broken your system if done sooner
<nckx>erudition: Oh, yeah, it does, which is why I thought you were talking about (a future, hypothetical) Guix System. Debian is nice. I just chose Ubuntu because, well, apparently it's the industry-standard desktop thing for non-geeks? As I total geek, I haven't a clue.
<erudition>No, you did make the right choice, seeing as she'll actually /use/ it
<nckx>It used to be Mint, then Mint bad, don't use Mint, god knows what it is now. Elementary or somesuch silliness I guess.
<erudition>this PC is just for turning on, then it autostarts pithos, and plays all day haha
<erudition>but otherwise you need ubuntu for it's PPAs, so you know it'll at least support any software out there that runs on GNU
*erudition has never tried hacking Debian to add PPA support, though
<xavierm02>erudition: You just add it as in Ubuntu, and then change the name of the ubuntu version to the one closest to your debian version in source.list and voila!
*nckx knows what PPAs are — indeed uses them, well guessed — but had no idea they were Ubuntu-only.
<xavierm02>erudition: you're kinda mixing two versions of debian when doing that. It's what they call a frankendebian. Using the PPAs in Debian can require a bit of tweaking (matching the ubuntu and debian versions, maybe getting a few packages from backports etc.) whereas in Ubuntu, it just works. I don't like Ubuntu and needed a PPA so I did this, but I wouldn't go so far as to recommend it
<nckx>erudition: You mean the prompt's hidden by default? Probably a good thing.
<erudition>nckx: haven't you heard? Windows 10 all but forces you to auto-update
<nckx>For example, Guix doesn't have a ‘libibus’ packages, but an ‘ibus’ that contains (amongst others) this library. So you'd write (propagated-inputs `(("ibus" ,ibus) …)).
<erudition>nckx: ok I don't know my way around /var/log but I tried cat /var/log/debug and I notice that "sheperd" starts the services. But it says "d-bus service could not be started" followed by "networking depends on d-bus service. networking could not be started"
<nckx>And make sure that the (gnu packages ibus) is imported at the top of your file.
<recj>because i'm sure adding version numbers adds complications because you would have to add those parameters somehow
<nckx>erudition: I use a very long password but like you I never actually log in as root. I'm not sure if the installer lets you disable root logins entirely (as IMO it should, but that's a feature request, not a bug).
<jackhill>:) but I recently switched to GNOME because I decided I didn't want to maintain my custom Xsession built around XMonad anymore.
<nckx>jackhill: Sure, but that (to me) implies an ‘I can do it [better], to the forkmobile!’ voluntarism, not the ‘you should keep supporting GTK2 forever for my benefit’ passivity. Unfortunately, the latter is louder :-/
<nckx>Many lively projects are certainly healthier.
<recj>speaking of that isn't python2 officially dying soon
<jackhill>nckx: agreed. Let's avoid falling into those traps!
<nckx>recj: Well, paste the fixed file and maybe the error, but I will be going to bed eventually ;-)
*jackhill looks around nerviously to see how much python2 code they need to worry about
<nckx>If recj were demanding somebody add GNUstep (they're not!) in the name of choice, that would be bad. Adding patches? Awesome.
<nckx>recj: You'd explicitly call (map procedure '(my li st)) for that, and let's just say for now that what you're writing there is not actually a ‘real’ procedure call. Let's not complicate things too much.
<nckx>recj: I didn't mean that bash was mandatory, but that each argument must be its own string.
<nckx>(invoke "echo" "foo" "bar") calls ‘echo’ with 2 arguments. (invoke "echo" "foo bar") call it with 1; it's equivalent to ‘echo "foo bar"’ in bash. So (invoke "python build foo_bar") will look for an executable actually named "python build foo_bar", spaces and all.
<recj>but `guix package --install-from-file=mozc.scm` has no output now
<nckx>erudition: Well, Unix isn't made for that, we try to isolate things, but Guix itself can have bugs, GDM certainly makes … assumptions … aggressively, etc. I meant that as a general computing response to ‘why not?’; the more you add, the more that can go wrong. That was all.
<nckx>recj: Add ‘mozc’ on its own line at the end of the file. This is to make the file return the package you just defined. It's like saying ‘OK, so let's (define ‘house’ as being blah blah). OK, now give me a: house’.
<nckx>This is only needed with ‘--install-from-file’.
<erudition>I guess something I was looking forward to about Guix was the ability to install whatever I want without worrying about it conflicting with other software, thanks to the ability to install multiple versions of libraries and such
<erudition>str1ngs: btw "<str1ngs> my biggest issue about that feature. is there is an assumption you want to wait before shutting down." You are actually making an assumption there yourself, which is that the user doesn't have the installation media higher up on their boot device list than their new install. Because if it did, you'd come back to find the installer greeting you at a fresh start and be very confused
<erudition>str1ngs: so installers actually /can't/ just go ahead and reboot without prompting, and that's why they give the warning to "remove the installation media" like guix does
<nckx>erudition: Guix simply can't export those variables for you in the current shell. No (sane) way around that. You can source /etc/profile yourself though. Or simply open a new shell.
<rvgn>How to make bootloader to automatically GPG-Sign the kernel, initramfs and grub.cfg it generates everytime during "system init" or system reconfigure"? Is there way to enable this via system configuration file "config.scm"?
<ober>any hacks to get guix to use the squid cached defined in http_proxy?
<erudition>nckx: I'm not sure I understand. Aren't the lines it gives able to be copy-pasted right into that same shell?
<erudition>nckx: I assume they're meant to be complete commands to type into bash or what not. Which is part of the problem on my ubuntu pc because I use fish, not bash, and the lines don't work
<erudition>nckx: "in the current shell" -- wait does this mean it's all already done for me in future shells? So it's all unnecessary and pointless if I just close it and open a new terminal?
<kmicu>cap: alas I don’t know. It looks like SDDM has many bugs related to layout handling e.g. ‘SDDM may also incorrectly display the layout as US but will immediately change to the correct layout after you start typing your password’.
<kmicu>cap: so maybe SDDM indicated US but in reality you had DE. Did you test that by writing something in SDDM’s login form?
<g_bor[m]>istm that swap on /dev/disk/by-uuid devices do not work... I will have a look at that later
<nckx>xavierm02: Yes, it (or X or the driver) doesn't erase the memory so you get whatever there was. Use fehbg or your favourite Unixy do1thang tool to set it.
<nckx>ngz: Could you give it a few --rounds (and report a bug)? I updated VLC to 3.0.7 hours ago so it's obviously not deterministic ;-)
<nckx>g_bor[m]: Oh ☹ Those are just symlinks created by udev ‘by hand’, so I guess we swapon before that has happened (which is reasonable to do). Writing a Scheme UUID parser, like we do for fs'es, it is, then.
<xavierm02>i3lock doesn't accept my password. Any ideas what could be happening? I tried changing my password to something simple to check if it was a keyboard layout problem but it doesn't seem to be
<mbakke>xavierm02: Did you add '(screen-locker-service i3lock)' to your system configuration?
<tune>xavierm02: you need to use setuid I think to give screenlocking privs
<ngz>nckx: "guix package -k --rounds=3 -u vlc" still fails at the first compilation.
<tune>I had something in my config.scm for i3lock but I use sway now so my line might be a bit different
<nckx>The only error that gives me (after building successfully) when playing a vidya is Failed to open VDPAU backend libvdpau_i965.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory, which isn't fatal.
<pkill9>nckx: hmm, it's something else I think, it's a protocol focused around encrypted and signed messaging - the description of ssb-db describes what it's focused on (https://github.com/ssbc/ssb-db): "A database of unforgeable append-only feeds, optimized for efficient replication for peer to peer protocols". It doesn't store large amounts of data like IPFS, it just links to those "blobs". I was thinking those blobs
<pkill9>the protocol isn't limited to one kind of application, it's supposed to be able to build things on top of it, for example there is a git implementation on it which they use to develop either the protocol itself, or patchwork (a communication software: https://github.com/ssbc/patchwork)
<nckx>pkill9: Thanks. I read that description too, but if you said that it described IPFS as well I'd believe you. Guess I need to read more about both ☺
<pkill9>what interested me is that they've implemented sending the data automatically over local networks between two instances, i was thinking it would be neat if you could send software between people using guix over a local network, for places that don't have internet access
<recj>when trying to compile anki fro source, i get `xdg-mime: No writable system mimetype directory found.`
<recj>also, i had to make a /usr/local directory manually i believe
<recj>if i can't compile this from source i can only imagine what a nightmare packaging it might be
<cap>g_bor[m]: I still would be really glad. I'm new to guix and trying to learn from other peoples configs
<nckx>recj: It doesn't work that way. *Those* problems are automatically taken care of by Guix (you'd not even want a writable system anything, nor /usr/local). What you'll get are *other* new and exciting problems, but they might be fewer, easier, tougher, or none at all.
<recj>i figured that would get patched normally so hmmm
<recj>also the mozc package still doesn't work and i don't know why lol
<recj>makes sense. i have to see if there are some guidelines for compiling from source on guixsd either way because of the different directory structure
<recj>anything with /usr/bin behaves this way iirc
<nckx>recj: Well, /usr/local isn't patched automatically everywhere, but it the best-behaved build systems (that respect --prefix &c.) it will be set for you. Otherwis, it's still much easier to patch hard-coded FHS names in a package definition than outside of it.
<nckx>recj: My point was more that, yes, admittedly, ./configure && make && make install on Guix is a nightmare, but that doesn't mean that Guix packaging is too.
<recj>i think it's with the way certain things are supposed to be compiled
<recj>and the assumptions theymake about your system
<nckx>Basically. It's the sheer creativity of developers in finding new and incompatible ways to hard-code things that makes it fun ;-) It would be boring if everyone respected --prefix, or PREFIX=, oh or prefix=, or DESTDIR= (but only for…) …
<nckx>Most people seem to find it hard to understand that ‘installing Guix System’ isn't some magical thing like with other distros, it's just a single (and trivial) ‘guix’ invocation. ‘guix build me a GNU system’ instead of ‘guix build me grep’, so to speak.
<nckx>Not sure how we can communicate that clearly in the manual without making people think they missed something…
<nckx>Just point the Guix stick at something and poof.
<nckx>Do not point the Guix stick at people or animals.
<xavierm02>When I guix search, it finds two versions of openssl: 1.1.1c and 1.0.2p. Is that normal?
<nckx>xavierm02: Yep. Some packages don't work with one version, so they use the other.
<nckx>(I think 1.1.1c is ‘openssl-next’, but don't quote me on that.)
<eric23>guix pull is giving me warnings... is anyone else having that problem?