<vagrantc>quiliro: i'm really having a hard time understanding how switching to a permissive, non-copyleft licensed kernel will improve user freedom... <rekado_>ngz: tried it (and variants of it) but without success so far. <nckx>vagrantc, quiliro: I don't understand that either… defending freedom by switching to a less-free kernel. <vagrantc>i get the impression guix would be willing to add support for other kernels if someone was willing to take on the bulk of the work to make it happen, and it met the FSDG <vagrantc>though unusual kernel/userland combinations can be a huge technical effort ***atw` is now known as atw
<Blackbeard[m]><pkill9 "that would be neat Blackbeard"> pkill9: yeah I think so *nckx .oO It's 0:35 in France; probably ‘zzz’. *vagrantc finds some matrix client quoting habits to be a little hard to read in irc *vagrantc hands nckx some zzzzz.... <nckx>vagrantc: Hell naw. Base balls. *nckx let's go sports team. <ngz>I have some package definition for a game (OpenClonk), but I cannot run it, apparently due to some OpenGL or Wayland issue. <ngz>Could someone try it and tell me if it works on their side. <ngz>The game builds in about 5 minutes on my 3 years old laptop, so it should not be long. *nckx while waiting for it to download: don't forget to add a GIT-FILE-NAME before submission. <ngz>For the record, it refuses to start. If I use "WAYLAND_DISPLAY='' openclonk", it opens a window and tells me my GPU is too old, which is not true. <ngz>Before submission, I think I will switch back to url-fetch anyway, so git-file-name may not be needed. <nckx>ngz: Oh, is Wayland a requirement? <ngz>I think this is the opposite. Wayland is the problem. <ngz>(it seems I don't have a font able to display this one) <vagrantc>hrm. i just realized i should have used a git tag with the brightnessctl package ... instead i just made a package with the commit at the same version as the tag <vagrantc>not sure if it's worth re-submitting just for a cleaner version string <nckx>vagrantc: I certainly think so. Only snag is that I'm not sure which version Guix will consider ‘greater’, but since it's really identical that doesn't actually matter. <vagrantc>i didn't think guix compared versions... <vagrantc>e.g. the version is the version in the tree <nckx>Guix never ceases to surprise. *nckx ignores versions in practice, though 🤷 <vagrantc>hrm. i guess i've installed packages into my profile and somehow guix knew not to stomp on top of them <nckx>I think the version comparison stuff only kicks in when you're statefully installing/removing packages, which I don't do, so I have little familiarity with it. <vagrantc>ah, yes, a manifest approach would make that go away <nckx>But hey, it doesn't even matter in your brightnessctl case. <nckx>ngz: Works like a charm! <ngz>So I successfully packaged it, but cannot use it. How nice :) <nckx>ngz: I know absolutely nothing about Wayland. Can you run X inside of it, somehow, and connect to that instead? 🤷 <ngz>I know absolutely nothing about Wayland either, except that it currently gets in my way… :) <ngz>So, do you think I should switch back to tarball from main site, or use github instead (and add git file name)? <nckx>ngz: Definitely the former if you're checking out a release tag anyway. <ngz>OK, but I won't benefit from guix refresh command then <nckx>ngz: Hm. Good point. But I think using an official release tarball trumps that. It's certainly a trade-off. <nckx>Upstream putting release tarballs on GitHub would give us both. *I think*. <vagrantc>so if you install gdm you get gnome-shell? <nckx>Apparently you even get NetworkManager. <ngz>Time to call it a day. Thank you again nckx. <quiliro>vagrantc, nckx: the idea to switch to another kernel is for changing the political views of users <quiliro>bsd can be changed to glp3, linux cannot <nckx>quiliro: The same people who call Guix System a ‘Linux distribution’ will call it a ‘FreeBSD fork/derivative/distribution’ (why wouldn't they?) at the expense of a *tremendous* porting effort. And it would be a fork: no merging GPL code back into FreeBSD for maintenance. <nckx>Guix/FreeBSD as an idea has merit. But this particular argument for it, I'm afraid, does not. <quiliro>yes...I thin the effort is too much...but except for that I like the idea <quiliro>but the best is to develop the hurdç <sturm>Hi, I'm hoping to do some hacking on my manifest file in emacs, but even after doing `M-x run-geiser`, it still tells me "No Geiser REPL for this buffer (try M-x run-geiser)". Any suggestions? <sturm>Ok, seems to work if after running M-x run-geiser and choosing "guile" I also select "Set Scheme", "Guile" from the menu. <vagrantc>shocker: gnome-shell fails tests on armhf <sturm>Is there a trick to getting Geiser to show errors? If I write something invalid like `(map 11+ '(1 2 3))` it doesn't seem to do anything when I `C-x C-e`., <sturm>Ahh, I think it's an error in my .guile, not having readline available. Working now. <apteryx>quiliro: The Hurd is GPLv2 only so far also; IIRC this is so to be able to use Linux drivers code. *apteryx testing the reworked pypi... after much effort <reepca-laptop>Out of curiosity, are there any tests that fail on current master for anyone else? <rekado>reepca-laptop: yes. I think there’s one that’s my doing, and it’s been unfixed for a while. <reepca-laptop>so I've been pretty consistently getting "guix substitute: error: host name lookup error: Name or service not known" on my laptop for quite awhile, but not on my desktop. The system configurations are mostly identical, nothing network-related differs AFAIK. The error appears with other programs like youtube-dl. Any ideas? <rekado>this is probably due to a flakey WiFi connection which causes nscd to cache failures. *rekado wonders if all the many Haskell packages downloaded when installing ghc-pandoc are really necessary <rekado>sorry: sudo herd invalidate nscd <reepca-laptop>aye, I assumed as much. Will restart my upgrade without --fallback and see what happens <reepca-laptop>how would one check whether a specific derivation is substitutable? <reepca-laptop>so it turns out the failing tests I've been seeing are from 8 hours ago <reepca-laptop>a one-armed if being spliced with ,@ into a list in php. So the non-existent else-branch returns <unspecified> and tries splicing that. <reepca-laptop>tests/guix-build.sh, tests/guix-build-branch.sh, tests/guix-package.sh, tests/graph.scm <reepca-laptop>Ah, disregard the tests/store-database.scm one, test-tmp was still dirty from working in another branch <reepca-laptop>Hm, interestingly, even after I change gnu/packages/php.scm line 185 to have an empty-list else-branch, the tests/guix-package.sh test still fails, but only when run with make check. That is, running "./test-env bash tests/guix-package.sh" exits with status 0, but make check still fails. <civodul>like i said, i also recommend using Guix and fiddling with it to get familiar with it <Blackbeard[m]>although I don't use guixsd because of my printer and a few things i needed <Blackbeard[m]>Do you think that if the proyect of better less deduplication on substitutes <Blackbeard[m]>might make it easier for a distributed peer to peer substitues <Blackbeard[m]>In the future, we want Guix to have support to publish and retrieve binaries to/from other users, in a peer-to-peer fashion. If you would like to discuss this project, join us on guix-devel@gnu.org. <civodul>Blackbeard[m]: oh alright, so i understand you're already familiar with Guix, indeed :-) <efraim>I think I can borrow setup-go-environment from (guix build go-build-system) for the vim profile hook <civodul>Blackbeard[m]: one approach we're pursuing (or would like to...) is to use things like IPFS <civodul>these systems do deduplication at their level anyway <civodul>so the proposed approach is sort of in-between: it's not a peer-to-peer approach, but it uses content-addressing like p2p systems do <Blackbeard[m]>I was asking because I thought that maybe after gsoc i could do that :) <Blackbeard[m]>configure: error: found development files for Guile 2.2, but /usr/bin/guile2 has effective version 2.0 ***MinceR_ is now known as MinceR
<roptat>sorry for my php patch from yesterday :/ <roptat>I won't be able to push anything in the next 10 hours or so, so if someone wants to fix that before then, please do :) <Blackbeard[m]>Makefile.am:583: warning: AM_GNU_GETTEXT used but 'po' not in SUBDIRS <roptat>Blackbeard[m], I get this kind of error on my fedora system at work too <roptat>I can fix it by using `guix environment guix --pure` for at least bootstrap and configure <roptat>it's only morning here though :p <efraim>I think I've fixed faiss and python-faiss for aarch64 <efraim>looks like since their last release they've made architecture specific some of the fixes I've made ***Elon_Satoshi is now known as Copenhagen_Bram
<nckx>Hah. I just saw the commit e-mail and wondered ‘how do I map that to a URL?’ Thanks civodul. *nckx just bought their first ThinkPad, for glorious Guixing. <nckx>(I know, who cares, but I have to vent my excitement and mild nervousness about spending $$$ on old hardware *somewhere*.) <roptat>civodul, " On one hand, there are here and cannot be ignored" -> " On one hand, they are here and cannot be ignored" (there -> they) <civodul>it's rather old news for us but the SWH folks wanted to know more <civodul>nckx: how's the CPAN URL story going? :-) <civodul>it would be nice to fix them soonish <nckx>Not on Guix right now. :( <nckx>I fixed the fallout from the great game renaming, though. <nckx>Even though I'd rather see it reverted. *bavier is noticing missing unicode on their current system :P *nckx has all the unicodez everywhere but emacs. <nckx>To the point where I mainly use ‘-nw’ now because my terminal has better unicode support than emacs. <bavier>I'm so used to using '-nw' from remote sessions that I often end up using is locally too <civodul>i don't like the game renaming either *nckx would revert it if not for etiquettal reasons. <kmicu>nckx: why is that? Emacs should have great Unicode, Eli is constantly on Unicode mailing list. 😺 <kmicu>(Some folks even use Emacs to finally have a proper handling for RTL langs. <nckx>kmicu: I don't know. I'm not complaining (that would be unfair before debugging it properly), just amused since it is indeed somewhat ironic. ☺ <nckx>I was editing my i3status config yesterday (the only legitimate place for emojis) and none of them were found by GTK emacs. <Blackbeard[m]>nckx: GitHub - iqbalansari/emacs-emojify: Display emojis in Emacs <nckx>Blackbeard[m]: I was just looking at that a few minutes ago, but I read it as doing tranparent text ‘:shrug:’ → ‘🤷’ glyph replacement, as done on for example GitHub. <nckx>Emojoes are just code points, they should be rendered like anything else. <nckx>But thanks for looking. I appreciate it. ☺ <kmicu>(If GTK somehow cannot figure out where is Symbola then you can use Emacs w/o GTK and set Symbola as fallback font in ~/.Xresources.) <bandali>is there a proper way in guix to define a custom keyboard layout? <nckx>kmicu: Which package provides Symbola? <bandali>in a "regular" distro i'd do that by creating a file in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ *kmicu uses Emacs w/o GTK cuz it’s less compiling and GTK doesn’t give much for Emacs anyway 😺 <roptat>bandali, I think you'll need to create a custom package for your layout <kmicu>nckx: there is no package for it iirc. <nckx>bandali: Big picture is you'd create a custom ‘xkeyboard-config’ package (that inherits from Guix's and adds your custom layout in the right directory), then somehow make X use it. *waves hands* <nckx>Not too difficult but will require getting some hands dirty. *kmicu is happy that Symbola is already on Unicode v12. Time to update for new emojis. <nckx>kmicu: I insist on GTK for my mu4e frame though. ☺ <nckx>kmicu: As in, it's bundled with emacs? Or…? <kmicu>GTK should work with proper fallback fonts. Maybe installing Symbola is all what you need. <nckx>kmicu: So you use Symbola provided by another distro? <kmicu>Emacs doesn’t bundle proper fonts. <kmicu>In reality, if you are lazy ;), you can drop fonts in .local/share/fonts. No need for a proper package which you need maintain xD <nckx>I just found out that I have a three-year-old .Xresources that I didn't know about. That's what happens when I plonk stuff in ~. <nckx>(It doesn't do anything that would affect font substitution, unfortunately. Just some rendering/hinting tweaks.) <kmicu>Yep, ideally everything should be in a reproducible config. <nckx>Even has comments addressed to myself that I don't remember writing. <nckx>kmicu: You wouldn't happen to know of an M-x explain-font-choice-for-glyph-at-point or something that I could use to poke emacs's brain on the matter? <nckx>Long shot but who knows. <reepca-laptop>Hm, seems that c97e4d8bbe broke the tests/guix-package.sh test, since it actually searches for "gnubg" directly in the "guix package -s" output <kmicu>Blackbeard[m]: In Xorg and inside a terminal. In both ways. <kmicu>Cuz GTK gives me nothing besides additional compiling. <kmicu>Let me demonstrate, give me a sec. <ng0>Blackbeard[m]: emacs-no-x <ng0>or something like that, search for the available emacs packages <nckx>Blackbeard[m]: I use termite and haven't noticed any binding conflicts, but I'm a power user of neither software. <ardumont>hello, nix user here, do you know if there is an equivalent tool as home-manager for nix with guix? <kmicu>Blackbeard[m]: one emacs is Xorg, one emacs is in a terminal emulator (started with emacs -nw), could you tell me which is which? <kmicu>Hi ardumont, currently there is nothing like that. <ardumont>i must say, it's quite nice to have the home declaratively defined, because it's... reproducible ;) <kmicu>Sure, but you can do that already and then link to home. <ardumont>to be fair, another nix(os) user declared its own home through /etc (as this can be natively defined in the nixos env) so without home-manager dependency <ardumont>oh so you mean, you declare through guixsd's dsl your user home in /etc and create a symbolic link in /home/<user> or some such <kmicu>ardumont: you define your dotfiles as a package and then link thing to your home. Like with GNU stow. That’s what home-manager and alike do under the hood. <pkill9>could you link the dotfiles using the guix system configuration? <pkill9>i.e. use the special-files-service-type <pkill9>i guess you'd want that separate from the guix configuration so you don't have to reconfigure to change <pkill9>you could create the dotfiles as a guix package like kmicu said and then put a link to them in /etc (or just install them to the system profile into a share directory, but it might be nicer to have them in /etc) and then point gnu stow to them <pkill9>oh nvm you'd still need to reconfigure the system if you change them heh <pkill9>i guess just install them to a new profile in your user directory <kmicu>There are plenty of ways to do that and that’s why tools like home-manager are seperate entities and not batteries included. <ardumont>yeah, i don't know if what we exchange implies the guix os also though ('cause i cannot with my current hardware) <ardumont>last time i really wanted to but once booted, i couldn't install because of my non-free hardware <ardumont>kmicu: to answer your question on your emacs, i can't distinguish the x from the no-x one, nice! <kmicu>ardumont: yeah, if you don’t mind compilation then adding a custom kernel is easy. <kmicu>(The screenshot with Emacsen was only to illustrate that I don’t use GTK so compile Emacs w/o it.) <kmicu>Nope, left one is X, right one is in urxvt. <kmicu>(But the point is that in my case it doesn’t matter so no need to compile longer.) <ardumont>my main issue with emacs-no-x is that i did not find why i cannot use C-S-> or C-S-< for the multi-cursor, then again, i could just try and change that binding ;) <ardumont>that's probably due to the terminal underneath though (urxvt) and not emacs per say <reepca-laptop>civodul: should splitting up (guix store) and (guix derivations) into (guix store files) and (guix store derivations) be in the same commit that uses them, or a separate one before that? <reepca-laptop>(and apologies for the long delay in responding regarding that) <pkill9>what could be causing this error? In procedure scm_lreadr: #<unknown port>:13:96: Unknown # object: #\< <rekado>pkill9: this means that a non-readable representation of some value has made it into an expression you try to evaluate. *rekado also doesn’t like the big game rename game, but feels that he has said enough about this already *rekado goes back to packaging R things <kmicu>[jokin’] Are you talking about Battle of Renamesnoth os Renamesnoth? <kmicu>But hey, GTK dropped ‘+’ so there is an improvement in renaming. ヽ(*＾▽＾)／ *kmicu remebers all those ‘I cannot remove GTK+ but cleary it’s there’ topics in Nix cuz escaping \+ is confusing. <bgardner>Good afternoon Guix; './pre-inst-env guix build <package>' is failing because it can't find guile. I'm working inside 'guix enviroment guix' in the source tree, is there more I need to do configuration-wise? <bgardner>'./pre-inst-env guile --version' works, but it's using a different guile path than './pre-inst-env guix build' is. <rekado>bgardner: you probably configured some time ago and then used “guix gc”. <rekado>bgardner: since you’re inside of “guix environment guix” all you need to do is run “./configure --localstatedir=/var” again. <rekado>if you want to prevent this from happening you can use “guix environment --root=/some/location” to register a garbage collector root for this environment. <rekado>this protects it from the garbage collector. <pkill9>might have been due to lack of free space <pkill9>is there a way to hook into the daemon to see what it's doing? <quiliro>it is weird that installing nmap requires gtk+ and xorg-server and mesa <apteryx>would we have a way to fake an SSH server for test purposes at build time? <apteryx>I guess I could install openssh and run it with some configuration on the command line <pkill9>quiliro: i think so, `guix graph nmap | grep -i gtk` returns nothing for me <pkill9>which means gtk isn't in any of the dependencies <quiliro>and even qpdf and cups are being installed <pkill9>sounds like something is going wrong <quiliro>guix (GNU Guix) af8f7eb4f2a664c2d0fb3faabaf2e80c72993ef6 <pkill9>quiliro: what does `guix package -n -i nmap` say? <roptat>quiliro, maybe it's a profile hook? <apteryx>mmmh: sshd re-exec requires execution with an absolute path ((invoke "sshd" ran from the builder side)) <quiliro>after guix pull, there is no cups or gkt+ building when installing nmap <cbaines>I haven't had much of a chance to use the GDM yet, but I've just reconfigured my system and rebooted, and I'm pretty excited :) <quiliro>guix (GNU Guix) 51e98f7e0fb1dc6578e2ad7c972fb419b25bba16 <quiliro>no build of gtk+ or cups with the installation of nmap on previous version <apteryx>rekado: re pypi import, works well, but seems I've broken the recursive import function... I'm looking at it now. ***renich_ is now known as renich
<apteryx>should be an easy fix, it's just I hadn't understood the reason we were "returning the upstream dependency names as an additional value" in compute-inputs; it's for the recursive importer. <civodul>looks like git.sv.gnu.org is unavailable <nckx>And at least one person had trouble with lists.gnu.org earlier. What's going on? <lfam>Did anyone mention it on #savannah? <lfam>I just asked them about the Git issues <lfam>Notice: The Savannah vcs and download systems are going offline for disk maintenance. Hopefully back soon. <lfam>Notice: The hosting system is taking longer than expected. It is possible that the sysadmins will need to visit the datacenter to get on the console of the bare metal machine. *nckx didn't even know about #savannah. Thanks. *vagrantc_ wonders about the plausibility of automated mirroring and automatic fallback <vagrantc_>seems like a single point of failure for a fairly typical workflow <reepca-laptop>civodul: did you see my earlier question regarding splitting (guix store), etc? I was offline for a bit. <ktsukik>is anyone about to answer some general questions? <ktsukik>so, guix is awesome, but the scheme api for config is a bit intimidating especially for a custom setup <ktsukik>i am alittle confused about how to get a setup going for cryptsetup/lvm boot, without gnome and all that <ktsukik>i'm a little confused about how to really get started with feeling comfortable building my config.scm file for that <ktsukik>then also, i'm not using efi and all that <ktsukik>i just don't know how to get started with knowing what i'm doing <ktsukik>guix config so far reminds a bit of the nixos setup, which was fun to checkout <ktsukik>but i really wanna get to know guix and scheme <ktsukik>i'm kinda stuck at this system config stage because <ktsukik>1. i need to get to know a new programming language <ktsukik>but that's so much work to get an os setup <ktsukik>i really love where this project is going though <ktsukik>but pulling up the initial config.scm, and like, just sitting back and saying "fuck" <ktsukik>so i'm not sure how to move forward here as a "getting-started" kind of user <civodul>reepca-laptop: sorry i didn't see it; could you repeat? <ktsukik>it would be awesome if there was a tool to generate a config based on usage, but i'm not sure how feasible that is <ktsukik>i don't necessarily expect any answers from my questions/rant here <ktsukik>but getting pointed in the right direction would be awesome <reepca-laptop>should splitting up (guix store) and (guix derivations) into (guix store files) and (guix store derivations) be in the same commit that uses them, or a separate one before that? <vagrantc>ktsukik: i don't know much more; mostly hear people talking about it on the list ... i think it's been at least partly merged into git master ... but you would have to have a working guix to build an image that uses it, i think <civodul>reepca-laptop: maybe the one before that? as long as it still makes sense and leads to a working state <vagrantc>ktsukik: hvae you done a a simple install without the encryption? <vagrantc>ktsukik: oh, i don't think lvm is well supported yet, by the way <civodul>reepca: ↑ "the one" meaning "a separate commit before that" <ktsukik>vagrantc: i did, maybe like 1.5 years ago or so now. but it was missing lvm and a few other things i really love for my own setups at the time <ktsukik>but such is life and cirucmstance, blah blah w/e <vagrantc>ktsukik: well, if you could ask more specific questions where you are stuck, that would be easier to respond to <ktsukik>if i could phrase my rant into a single question <ktsukik>how can i get to know the guile scheme api more to create the custom setup i need? <ktsukik>i don't really wanna get stuck here asking tiny questions about my config, ya know? <ktsukik>i think getting another really basic setup going and moving forward from there would be good for me <rekado>ktsukik: a good way is to browse the manual <vagrantc>i don't think i've ever really learned the api ... i just have managed by copying examples and experimenting ... <ktsukik>vagrantc: ok, that's a good approach <reepca-laptop>ktsukik: nothing wrong with tiny questions IMO, it's actually a pretty good way to learn <vagrantc>there are example system configs in guix, i think the manual points to them <ktsukik>yea, i gotta spend some more time witht he manual <ktsukik>reepca-laptop: thank you, i just feel my questions are too general atm. but i'll surely be back for more specifics <vagrantc>one of the really nice things about guix is if you make a serious mistake, you can easily roll-back to your previous configuration <vagrantc>barring, of course, wiping out the bootloader of the filesystem or something, but that's pretty hard to do unless you're going way out of your way <ktsukik>yea, i figured it would be pretty close to nixos in that way <ktsukik>it would be awesome if i could work through the install in a normal way, and generate a config.scm based on my initial setup afterward <ktsukik>looking through example configs/the manual will be fun though <ktsukik>alright, well i guess that's all for me atm <ktsukik>i just wanted to touch base and see what's up afte ri pulled up the initial config.scm file 