IRC channel logs

<roptat>jonsger: yes, there's a patch in staging

<jonsger>roptat: I mean with JOSM

<daviid>baconicsynergy: it's ok. I read here that they have their own push gateway, but they do use gaagle FCM and ipple APN, unfortunately (hence the push norification is (config wise) optional, users who do not want to be tracked by gaggle nor ipple can desable it ... it's seems that today, the only full (complete) and free (freedom) solution to this problem is matrix/riot (but on mobile, Riot consume the hell of a lot of the battery ...

<daviid>anyway, this is a bt OT, sorry!

<roptat>jonsger: oh, I've been stuck with newer versions, but I have an older version running

<jonsger>maybe you can share it :)

<baconicsynergy>daviid, gotcha. I'm in agreement

<daviid>baconicsynergy: here https://ring.cx/en/news

<baconicsynergy>should I report broken packages or packages with broken functionality to bug-guix@gnu.org?

<baconicsynergy>I don't want to overwhelm them with junk if its the wrong email address :p

<bavier>baconicsynergy: yes

<baconicsynergy>bavier, cool, Im doing the right thing then lol

<roptat>jonsger: one of the older versions you will find in https://framagit.org/tyreunom/guix-more

<roptat>I'm going to bed though, I'll try to work on it tomorrow

<baconicsynergy>I am on a hell of a bug-hunting spree

<baconicsynergy>how exciting :)

<baconicsynergy>I wish I was a sufficiently proficient programmer to help fix them though

<baconicsynergy>I'm just a lowly sysadmin :)

<baconicsynergy>daviid, just so you know, quaternion is a good qt matrix/riot client thats packaged within guix

<daviid>baconicsynergy: i don't know quaternion

<daviid>I use linphone, which is a good app, but it uses the push FCM and APN (which I diabled, but my contacts do use those ... then I'm still trapped in being tracked ...

<brendyyn>apteryx: it claims to but im not sure how it works when its pure p2p

<brendyyn>apteryx: i was under the impression ring was rather unusable

<brendyyn>daviid: one step at a time. there cant be a perfect solution over night

***jonsger1 is now known as jonsger

<daviid>brendyyn: sure, that was not my claim, I was looking to share informtion about other potential solutions I wouldn't be aware ... but there are solution(s?) already (matrix/riot is one of them, I hope will see many more in the (near) future

<daviid>linphone is an old app, so my understanding is that the team is not (that much concern) with the problem

<daviid>but again, slightly OT for this channel, sorry

<brendyyn>daviid: can matrix group video call?>

<daviid>brendyyn: I don't know, I don't use (yet) matrix

<daviid>brendyyn: but I believe Purism will drastically boost Matrix/Riotcapabiblties, since they anouced tht that will be what they offer for the librem 5 phone

<brendyyn>daviid: I'm still waiting for it :)

<daviid>brendyyn: we all are ... :)

<brendyyn>But it must be able to chat with people that don't have purism phones, naturally

<daviid>brendyyn: it will chat with anyone installing (using an account) matrix/riot, and besides, librem 5 phone users stull may install and use other solutions, GNU Ring, Linphone ... basically anything that is in Debian (and I guess Guix will also run, at some point, on the librem 5 phone as well ...)

<brendyyn>We need to get Guix on to it so we can take over the world

<daviid>brendyyn: I believe guix will run easily (as a host)

<brendyyn>I mean a Guix OS

<daviid>brendyyn: sure, that will take quite a lot more time though, imo, it will need to have all the components drivers up and runnng in guix ... beautifull goal, I'm all for it, but it won't happen over noght (someone just told me this haha ...)

***Guest36236 is now known as sturm

<sturm>Hmm, it looks as though I'm not getting anything from ~/.guix-profile/etc/bash_completion.d/, which is sourced in /etc/bashrc. Is /etc/bashrc something Bash should be sourcing by default, or should I be running it my .bashrc?

<sturm>Well, I've now added `source /etc/bashrc` to my .bashrc, which seems to do the tric

<apteryx>brendyyn: you should give it a try; it works well, especially on GNU/Linux.

<buenouanq>icecat screenshot --fullpage isn't working for me anymore

<buenouanq>can anyone confirm?

<sturm>buenouanq: running `icecat --screenshot https://gnu.org/s/guix/` just seems to hang for me

<civodul>Hello Guix!

<civodul>merge → done! ✓

<davidl>Hello civodul!

<davidl>Ive got the error output from guix system init in a VM ready, at: https://paste.debian.net/1054126

<davidl>and the desktop.scm I used is at: https://paste.debian.net/1054131

<g_bor>hello!

<g_bor>I've seen core-updates is merged.

<g_bor>Running guix pull now

<efraim>we have version-major and version-major+minor, but no version-minor

<efraim>I'll just add glibc-2.27 to my system definition, no need to worry too much about programatically adding preceding-minor-version or somesuch

<lprndn>Does anyone know if there is a way to call a procedure witin another directory? Some kind of call-in-directory? To avoid relative chdir in a build definition. Thanks

***rekado_ is now known as rekado

<rekado>lprndn: (with-directory-excursion …)

<lprndn>ok nice. Thanks!

<civodul>g_bor: berlin hasn't built guix-modular yet, so your laptop will get warm as you run 'guix pull' :-)

<g_bor>civodul : I noticed that, but I'm over it by now :)

<brendyyn>glibc build segfaulted

<g_bor>brendyyn: oops...

<g_bor>How did that happen?

<brendyyn>g_bor: i dont know, im trying again

*g_bor so far so good, reconfiguring

<lprndn>Hum. Is it expected that installing a package that has search-paths, I don't get a PATH suggestion? But I do when I change it to native-search-paths?

<g_bor>Are we planning to merge master to staging soon?

<brendyyn>ok it worked the second time a build it

<g_bor>cool :)

<brendyyn>I sent a bug report anyway

<g_bor>it would be nice to see if we can trigger this segfault regularly enough...

<g_bor>thanks

<brendyyn>maybe because I overclocked my cpu, or just gremlins :p

<g_bor>I got a message running guix weather: warning: SQLite database is busy

<g_bor>is that normal?

<brendyyn>I have not seen it

<rekado>this can happen, but it is only temporary.

<civodul>g_bor: i don't know what the status of 'staging' is, but it would be good to discuss on the ML, indeed!

<g_bor>hello guix!

<g_bor>civodul: I would favour merging master to staging, so that we can have the fixed gcc, and undo the related patches.

<g_bor>I got a TLS related error message from subtitute...

<g_bor>It is a quite obscure way to say that we can't continue the download, as your network went down...

<g_bor>Do you think we can improve on that?

***jonsger2 is now known as jonsger

<g_bor>It seems to me that guix weather does not survive when network goes down, then comes back up.

<g_bor>A second run with stable net run to completion reporting 90.5% substitute coverage on hydra.

<civodul>g_bor: re staging, sounds good, though again i think we should discuss it on the list

<civodul>g_bor: re 'guix weather', it most likely doesn't survive disconnection indeed

<civodul>rekado: we have ENOSPC again on some build machines :-/

<roptat>hi guix!

<efraim>IMO master->staging, master->core-updates is OK in general as long as the merge doesn't drop bits

<civodul>« Les greffes suivantes seront effectuées » roptat++ :-)

<civodul>roptat: the "building" messages look inconsistent: https://paste.debian.net/1054154/

<civodul>initial capital + trailing newline + quotation

<roptat>indeed

<rekado>I’m updating glib for the gnome upgrade and meson makes it harder to split outputs because of this limitation: https://github.com/mesonbuild/meson/issues/2561

<civodul>terrible

<civodul>there's a NixOS patch already

<civodul>rekado: i'm thinking it may be wise to merge wip-gnome-upgrades after the release, even if that's disappointing

<rekado>yes, no rush

<civodul>the problem being that i fear we wouldn't be able to release this week if we try to merge

<rekado>had it been possible to run GNOME 3.28 already this would have been different.

<civodul>yes

<rekado>but since gnome-shell segfaults and I’m doing the upgrade to 3.30 now this is going to take more time anyway

<rekado>we’ll have it for 1.0 though :)

<civodul>yes! :-)

<efraim>i love that in links it looks like nixos is saying "meson won't let us set it so we fixed their code" a dozen times

<civodul>yes that's a bit weird

<civodul>it certainly gets the message through :-)

<efraim>my laptop has an uptime of 29 days, looks like i'll need to reboot to upgrade glibc though

<efraim>oh, fun presentation news

<efraim>I was supposed to share a local hack-night spot with someone from netbsd to talk about our package managers and using them on top of other systems

<efraim>but I got bumped to the quarterly "lets hear a talk!" night

<efraim>I'm still going to try to work in a "curl http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/hello/hello-2.10.tar.xz | sudo bash" slide

<civodul>efraim: heh fun :-)

<allana>Is there a place where guix users without the technical knowledge to create pacakges can request that certain packages be added to the list of available packages?

<rekado>allana: there is a wishlist here: https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Guix/Wishlist

<rekado>The technical knowledge required to create a package may not be as difficult to acquire as you may think, though.

<rekado>About this meson limitation: I cannot build glib, because Guix tells me “cycle detected in the references of /gnu/store/…-glib-2.58.1-bin”

<rekado>the bin output obviously has a reference to the regular output (because of libs)

<rekado>but the default output also has a reference to the bin output, because of the pkg-config files that specify the path to binaries.

<rekado>is there a way around this?

<roptat>rekado: is that because of glib-config or something like that?

<roptat>maybe you can move binaries referenced by the regular output to the regular output?

<rekado>it’s because glib-2.0.pc references glib-genmarshal, gobject-query and glib-mkenums.

<rekado>I wonder if these references could simply be removed.

<rekado>same problem with gio-2.0.pc, which references glib-compile-{schemas,resources} and gdbus-codegen.

<rekado>I see that the files in the current glib do not include the bindir reference

<rekado>they just contain lines like these: glib_compile_schemas=glib-compile-schemas

<rekado>I’ll patch them in the new glib.

<g_bor>rekado: would it be possible to move the pkg-config files to their own output?

<g_bor>It might not be such a good idea, but could break the loop...

<allana>rekado: I am using GuixSD almost day-to-day for the purpose of a development environment. At work I am using NixOS under VirtualBox for the same purpose but I would like to replace it with GuixSD. The one piece I am missing is the VirtualBox Guest Additions. It is packaged for Nix. I don't at this stage have the technical knowledge to package the guest additions, so I guess that I will add it to the wishlist. Thanks.

<g_bor>allana: we recently had a discussion about packaging the guest additions, and came to the conclusion that because it is non-free it will not be packaged for guix.

<g_bor>You can request someone to do it for you, but it will not make it to upstream guix.

<rekado>g_bor: this might work, but I think it’s a bit heavy-handed, because lots of packages would have to be modified to not only include “glib” but also “glib:pkgconfig”. Patching these files seems to work fine.

<g_bor>We also have the same freedom issues with recent versions of Virtualbox itself.

<g_bor>rekado: ok

<allana>g_bor: Thanks, I was not aware that it was non-free

<ng0>In some universities VBox is indeed presented as the only free software option.

<allana>The VirtualBox licensing FAQ (https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Licensing_FAQ) states that VirtualBox and Guest Additions are GPLv2, both source and binary. I must be missing something, or maybe the FAQ is out of date.

<civodul>rekado: we lack a cert for ci.guix.info on berlin

<civodul>how does one add a cert with "cerbot"?

<rekado>I can do that

<civodul>is it enough to "cerbot renew -d ci.guix.info"?

<civodul>ok

<civodul>thanks!

<demotri>allana: I'm unsure about the guest additions. Chances are they are really GPLv2 and thus free. Though normally they are just distributed as an iso-image to mount a "CD" and install them as binaries.

<demotri>allana: But the problem I'm aware of is that the VirtualBox-BIOS is free software, but can only be built with the propriatary Watcom compiler. There is no free bootstrapping here! Cmp https://www.virtualbox.org/ticket/12011

<demotri>allana: In any way, this isn't a easy package, if it is at all possible totally free. Nix is more lax concerning bootstrapping and binaries, but Guix is FSDG. Distinct philosophies.

<rekado>civodul: I’m reconfiguring berlin.guixsd.org now.

<rekado>I’ll then copy the initrd and kernel to the root disk and see tomorrow if I can reboot it.

<civodul>rekado: ok, thank you

*civodul prepares a patch to default to ci.guix.info for substitutes

<rekado>I hope I’ve done this right. I extended the berlin.guixsd.org cert to include ci.guix.info (because these domains both point to the same server).

<civodul>rekado: it seems to work, tx!

<lsl88>hi guix! I am installing guixSD over qemu. I had downloaded in the past the ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/guix/guixsd-install-0.15.0.system.iso.xz.sig (replacing system, of course). but in the new documentation , I am starting from the beginning, I could use that .iso file. And when I run wget https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/guix/guixsd-install-0.15.0.1591-11127-dirty.system.iso.xz (again, with system replaced) I get ERROR: 404 not found. Any ideas

<lsl88>about why this happens?

<demotri>lsl88: Where is that URL from?

<lsl88>I also add: in https://guix.info/download/ you have https://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/guix/guixsd-install-0.15.0.x86_64-linux.iso.xz and it exists

<rekado>it’s probably because the website for guix.info was generated from a dirty git checkout.

<rekado>:-/

<lsl88>demotri: https://guix.info/manual/en/USB-Stick-and-DVD-Installation.html#USB-Stick-and-DVD-Installation

<lsl88>rekado: should I fix it with the one that works?

<rekado>please use the one that works :)

<rekado>I’m sorry about that.

<rekado>there are still a couple of unresolved problems with the website at guix.info

<civodul>it seems that more and more people are looking at the manual on guix.info

<civodul>i wonder if we should just make that a redirect to gnu.org/s/g/guix/manual

<civodul>the downside is that we'd lose the latest up-to-date copy of the manual

<rekado>I don’t know. Having a recent manual there was one of the goals.

<demotri>Ah, I see. Is that part auto-generated?

<rekado>we could add both, I think.

<rekado>a link to the latest release manual (which redirects to gnu.org) and the latest manual.

<rekado>demotri: the URL is generated.

<lsl88>rekado: it's OK ;-), you don't have to apologize. In fact I guess I sent a bug about the links that did not work. I don't know why I always find bugs

<civodul>rekado: having both would be ideal

<civodul>lsl88: BTW, thanks for fixing the example that lacked 'file-system-label'!

<civodul> https://issues.guix.info/issue/33600

<demotri>lsl88: About finding bugs: That's because you are pedantic. And follow the manual step-by-step. But that's good, that's the first step for improvements :-)

<civodul>rekado: ↑ switching build farms for good

*rekado applauds

<demotri>lsl88: I also noticed some problems with the guix.info manual, but did not report: There is some problem with the CSS, the source code examples don't have the brown background. And as many people have reported, the link to the manual 404s.

<lsl88>civodul: you don't have to thank me, It was just a line. And I always ask because I am new, and I don't know if it is OK to change things on my own. I don't remember if I mentioned it, but sometimes while reading the documentation I find things that I find confusing - think of me as a user, that is new to guix, which in fact I am - When I was trying to install guixSD on bare metal, I found the reboot command for instance like kind of hid

<lsl88>en.

<rekado>demotri: yes, the manual is built separately from the rest of the website. Different styles apply to the deployment at gnu.org.

<demotri>rekado: Is the different style wanted or a bug?

<rekado>I wanted to fix all of these problems but I’m a little overwhelmed since a few months.

<demotri>rekado: with "overwhelmed" you mean having too much work, not "full with emotions"? No problem, I have also too many things I want to do for Guix.

<rekado>as a human I’m also full of human emotions ;)

<rekado>I did mean overwhelmed with work.

<civodul>heh

<civodul>too many emotions :-)

<demotri>rekado: Yeah, of cause :-) I just wasn't sure about the translation here, in German, I would more use the emotional translation.

<roptat>civodul: I think Benno will just be mad at us if we sent a new translation for the manual ;)

<roptat>also, I don't think I'll have time to make the translation anyway

<roptat>what we can do though, is to re-generate guix.fr.texi with the new manual, so changes will just be untranslated

<roptat>btw, I'm not a fan of the way our translations are managed, because there is no change in between versions, when users are expected to update to master in a regular basis

<roptat>which means parts of guix are always in English until the next release

<civodul>roptat: yeah i think we should send pseudo pre-releases to the TP more often

<civodul>but yeah, we'll skip for this time :-)

<civodul>no big deal

<roptat>that'd be cool

<roptat>I was also thinking that we could have more participants for translating guix-packages

<civodul>definitely!

<civodul>perhaps we should use Pottle or whatever makes it easier

<civodul>(Pottle? is that the right name?)

<roptat>pootle

<civodul>oh right

<roptat>I think our package is out of date and broken though