<ilmu>Hey, so I installed guix on my fedora 26 workstation using a copr (https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/lantw44/guix/), started the daemon and then did a "guix package -i clojure" (just wanted to give it a challenge, building the jvm etc.) it ran for like 15 hours before it started hanging on "PASS: test-verify.sh" the other "test" steps were also taking a while so I let it go on for 7 more hours but I just stopped it. Now I just started the command
<ilmu>ooh it just jumped past it like nothing now it's doing something useful again. Is there some logfile or something where I can investigate why it hung the previous time?
<ilmu>ahh there is a test-verify for every step ok I guess this wasn't a very informative question. Sorry for the spam
<ilmu>okay I love looking at this thing recursively build the whole world haha
<apteryx`>not everybody is as stubborn as I, good ;)
<lfam>I did glance at the manual section Daemon Offload Setup, which should help
<apteryx`>yep, I've been through this many times. I get to the 'guix offload test' part. At which point it fails with some unhelpful error: "guix offload: error: build failed: program `guix-authenticate' failed with exit code 1."
<apteryx`>Well, unhelpful because I'm not sure what that exit code is about.
<apteryx`>and my GDB fu seems to not be strong enough. I get it stepping in guix-daemon but can't seem to break in the forked process where I want to (rbreak .*exportPath.*).
<reepca-laptop>quick question before I send something to the CUPS mailing list - is there any guix-specific reason updating the defaults for a printer through the CUPS web interface at localhost:631 would silently fail (not be saved, despite saying they were successfully saved)? I'm having a heck of a time trying to get this custom page size to stick...
<rekado>reepca-laptop: where does CUPS try to save changes?
<rekado>reepca-laptop: the default location in the store is not writable and /etc would be cleared on reboot.
<reepca-laptop>I *think* in /etc/cups. But I'm not too familiar with how guix services work.
<snape>haha! Okay let me know then, I'd be interested in knowing whether it's faster this way or not
<Copenhagen_Bram>Alright. I'm sure it'll be faster. I'll probably only have to type the password once. Either that or whoever said guix didn't work with a separate /boot partition was right and it'll be misery once more.
<snape>anyway you won't need to reinstall if you want to switch to full-encryption again
<snape>you'll just end up with an extra unused space
<reepca-laptop>Copenhagen_Bram: well, -y looks a bit like guix pull, and -S looks like guix package -u, and -w looks like guix build. I'd say the full command ("update the list of available packages, then download all new updates but don't install them") would look something like: guix pull && guix build <somehow get all installed packages>. It occurs to me that for that use case it would be nice if guix build could take a manifest object.
<snape>Copenhagen_Bram: the equivalent would be 'guix build package' I think
<reepca-laptop>(note: this is my first time looking at the pacman man page...)
<Copenhagen_Bram>I might have to reinstall or something if it doesn't boot. If I can't boot, I can't just go in and do a `guix system reconfigure`
<snape>Copenhagen_Bram: you don't need to reconfigure
<snape>you just need to copy /boot's content from the extra partition to /boot in your original partition
<Copenhagen_Bram>so if i have to take my computer somewhere where someone might take it... suppose I dd the boot partition to a usb drive, then modify config.scm to point to the usb drive as the /boot partition, then guix system reconfigure
<reepca-laptop>so doesn't technically have to be the same version, but it's the only way to guarantee the package definition will correspond to the derivation outputs unless you manually compare hashes
<snape>reepca-laptop: yes I understand, so guix package -i <something> will build everything again. But you can use the files from the store directly :p
<reepca-laptop>I just remember it was an issue for me when I was trying to get medicine to my crippled laptop
<Copenhagen_Bram>btw how big of a change would it be to put the hash somewhere other than in the beginning of the directory name, and have the name begin with the package name so that they can be listed in alphabetic order?
<snape>Copenhagen_Bram: guix archive doesn't "install" the package, so you won't find it in your PATH anyway I believe
<OriansJ``>For those who haven't been following, today's discussion in #guix-COC-discussion is are Codes of Conduct biased against individuals with low EQ thus are a form of discrimination and how to improve the situation.
<divansantana_>I think docker isnt available in guixsd. Is there a bug report or thread that discusses that?
<Copenhagen_Bram>what do you mean you start calling ISPs, do you look for a new one or do you bug the one you have?
<jlicht>There is basically a multi-level-ISP where I live (i buy from ISP A, they get their services from ISP B, etc etc) so when there is a problem I start calling them in A -> B -> C order to find out what the problem is :)
<Copenhagen_Bram>Speaking of drivers, how do I get wayland to work for an intel GMA 4500MHD?
<jlicht>Copenhagen_Bram: It is mostly the opposite of that, sadly. It's a bit complicated, but tl;dr: it's affordable, quite fast when it works, but I can't really go to any other ISP so if they decide to change either of their qualities I will be very unhappy
<jlicht>there some blockchain based meshnet being talked about. Not sure what to think of it, as they made some promises that seem unlikely to be delivered on (e.g. "you can have lower latency on the meshnet compared to normal internet")
<roptat>well, if you consider two machine physically closed to one another, it's possible that on the normal internet you have to go through routers all other the continent before you can reach the other machine
<roptat>that may be normal if you're far from the servers
<roptat>that's about the latency I got between Europe and Japan
<roptat>If you're using a sattelite network, it adds a lot of latency because the sattelite is far away
<jlicht>Copenhagen_Bram: I was not talking about improving latency times in rural areas for example. SkyCoin is what the thing is called btw, and the FAQ entry was about /gaming/ latency (so think 20ms), which to me seem unreasonable to get faster by adding potentially a lot of routers in between two systems
<rekado>jlicht, lyr3: are they necessary, though? Let’s improve the manual instead.
<snape>lyr3: and there is the script at etc/guix-install.sh
<g_bor[m]>jlicht: actually these texinfo problems are reported by guix lint, I believe.
<jlicht>rekado: fair point, but the manual would e.g. not be the place to explain /why/ you would use certain configuration options (such as explaining the benefits of FDE, which kind of FS is good for your usecase, how large to make your partitions etc). A tutorial cross-linked to the manual would make a bit more sense in that case.
<snape>but those things have nothing to do with Guix, so I don't see why they would fit in a Guix tutorial
<jlicht>basically, stuff that is most definitely relevant to an aspiring GuixSD user, but would not make sense to explain properly in the Guix manual
<jlicht>snape: If I hand my good friend $RandomUbuntuUser the guix manual, they will run into quite some issues where their current knowledge is lacking, and the manual does not really provide a helping hand on how to remedy this. A tutorial fits this as it is meant to solve a specific problem without assuming too much about the reader's existing knowledge
<g_bor>Please see information related to uefi. I consider getting that sorted and backed by system tests after fixing java bugs.
<jlicht>I do think the documentation is very nice if you have specific question on how to achieve a specific action, or just want to know about some topic. It just falls short if you have no clue and just want to sit back and be informed.
<jlicht>g_bor: I tried working with uefi, but in the end just disabled it on my main laptop.
<snape>but people should be able to install Guix without needing other blog content about Guix. If they need information on, say, how 'ls' works, then they should find documention elsewhere
<snape>so redirecting people to unofficial blogs doesn't help improving our official documentation
<jlicht>the manual properly answers: "How do I install Guix(SD), given that I already kind of know what kind of configuration and programs I am going to need on my eventual system".
<jlicht>snape: what would you propose then? Because maybe even having a list of prerequisite knowledge and/or decisions might already make it easier to follow for a total newcomer
<jlicht>I agree with your explanation of the issue, it's just that I do not really see how to deal with it.
<g_bor>jlicht: What would be the usecase of the documentation you are reqesting? One way to have a quick system to try is to provide a vm image, which is already done.
<snape>I don't know that is problem lyr3 had, so it's difficult to answer
<jlicht>roptat: in Emacs: "M-x info", and there exists a heading "Administration système" with the guix subheadings, with a french description. Trying to read these leads to "no such node or anhor" messages
<roptat>lyr3: ludo suggested that we collect tutorials in a separate texinfo source, so guix.texi would be the reference manual and guix-tuto.texi would contain use-case-oriented tutorials
<roptat>if someone knows how to make sure you can only find the manual for your language, that would be great
<roptat>otherwise people will find entries in a lot of languages they don't speak, when it gets translated in more languages
<roptat>maybe there's a language directory like with man pages?
<jlicht>point is, the nodes don't actually point to anything. (I don't actually have a French manual available, just some headings). So it might really just be some transient effect of something I did.
<roptat>jlicht: actually with plain info, I have the same issue
<roptat>jlicht: I see, it tries to load "(guix) Invoquer guix gc" instead of "(guix.fr) Invoquer guix gc"
<Copenhagen_Bram>how do i change the location of where guix looks for its store, from /gnu/store to something else?
<pkill9>Copenhagen_Bram: you can compile guix to look for a store in another location (actually there may be an environment variable aswell) but you won't be able to use substitutes
<pkill9>it is however possible to use bind-mounting to put the sstore elsewhere while still being able to use substitutes, however so far i haven't been able to do this on GuixSD, only Guix on a foreign distro, because the guix daemon is started before anything is mounted
<pkill9>so even if you put the bind mount in the system configuration (which will write an fstab), the guix-daemon won't 'see' the bind mount because it was started before fstab was read
<Copenhagen_Bram>Why can't you use substitutes if guix looks in a different location?
<g_bor[m]>Copenhagen_Bram: It's because the store path is hardcoded in several places.
<lyr3>I hope that emacs team switch to guile so I wont need to learn elisp!
<ng0>I have lots of unpleasant thoughts about Java in university.. and now I learned that the next module generation will use Python instead of Java >.< would've been less annoying. well, if it were just for learning I could do that at home, it's just for the final paper.
<axd-v>So here is a use case that I need to work. I
<lyr3>ng0: yep, but java boys earns a lot...too bad I hate java
<ng0>the funny thing is, java 11 will make javafx obsolete or something? and we got started with some old gfx framework, and now got introduced to the current one, which is being replaced again :D
<axd-v>So here is a use case that I need to work. I have a package in user's generation 5 that was removed in generation 6. I'm on generation 45 now and this package fails to compile on the latest guix. How can I add this package from my cache from gen 5? If I manually switch to the generation then I'm able to use the package, so it should be doable, I'd think.
<ng0>rekado: it's some kind of entry to C, but actually some do even C as a direct beginners language
<ng0>could be that university and university of applied science are different in that regard
<axd-v>rekado: thank you for suggestion, I'm gonna try it out momentarily. This type of use is one of the best use cases of guix, partial upgrades etc. Would you know if there's a way to let guix update the system upon `guix package -u` even if some of the packages fail to build, but others don't? Because qutebrowser and owncloud-client don't compile for me, going on for a few weeks now, I don't want to be kept back from other software that
<sneek>axd-v, rekado says: You can do “guix package -i /gnu/store/…-the-package-…”
<axd-v>p.s. I read this message already in the log, since I knew that I got disconnected.
<ng0>rekado: would've loved to pick Anglistik or Linguistik and Theoretische Informatik instead, but I'm also fine with what I got now.. been a long road and fight.
<rekado>axd-v: you can use “--do-not-upgrade=qutebrowser”, for example.
<axd-v>lyr3: well you just got your answer. I'm already running GuixSD on the daily, just set up a safety vm that you can power up at any point with a more normal gnu/linux and you're set.
<rekado>ng0: yeah, I also didn’t get the courses I really wanted. And now I just stopped to do more fun stuff for a few years.
<axd-v>rekado: that's exactly it, I suppose I should have just read the info page, thanks.
<rekado>axd-v: you can also try “guix package --help” to get an overview on features that you might want to look up in the manual later.
<lyr3>axd-v: good to know! I want to learn scheme, I will first try it under QEMu!
<axd-v>rekado: guix is so good, I still don't completely comprehend everything that it enables me to do, but I know I picked the right distro and community to be a part of. This is a future. Somewhat unrelated: do you know if guix aims for feature parity with nix or at least implement some of their interesting stuff that guix doesn't do just yet? How much influence do guix and nix have on each other?
<ng0>rekado: hmh. yeah I somehow got the nice opportunities to work on as a flexible part-time job now, and the main reason I got this job was because of all the extra time I was able to spend before university on free software work.. still doing "real" world work is so much more fun. writing large scale crawlers, etc..
<ng0>buenouanq: thing is now, I am working on something which has taken more priority, in addition to university. the service will be there eventually, but I've given other topics around it more thought, so the service will just be a proposal to pick up for Guix when it's done. Or maybe I'll send it, since it will probably just be like the module imports which need to be adjusted.
<ng0>no idea? I've only started getting used to it.. I don't like these kinds of editors
<rekado>axd-v: there is little overlap between Guix and Nix. We sometimes struggle with the same problems when it comes to packages, but the solutions we implement aren’t always the same.
<rekado>axd-v: feature-wise I think there’s also some divergence.
<rekado>axd-v: one thing we definitely want but haven’t achieved yet is Guix Ops, something that Nix has had for a while now.
<axd-v>rekado: Interesting. Where would you say guix and nix diverge? I got interested in nix at first after reading about it, but after learning about guix when looking for libre distros, the choice was obvious to me. But it does seem like nix has a bit more steam and is further along development than we are here. Not to say that there's anything I don't have that I need on my gsd system, I'm really comfortable and already light years ahead
<ng0>what I wanted to write before the freenode onion dropped: sometimes what's acceptable for Nix, isn't for Guix when it comes to packages. like direct elf patching in package definitions which I've seen in some places. So you spent some more time tinkering about solutions.
<ng0>which is not to say with judgdement or anything, it's just a different approach at some problems
<rekado>I would not say that “Nix has a bit more steam” — it has been around for much longer than Guix.
<rekado>one point of divergence is as ng0 wrote: we have different sensibilities about what is and isn’t acceptable.
<rekado>the Nix folks seem to be concerned more with increasing the number of packages that can be installed via Nix, even if that sometimes means ignoring bootstrapping problems.
<vagrantc>are there any specific features present in guix or nix not present in the other?
<rekado>Another thing that is important to me personally is the quality of R packages. In Nix there are lots of R packages, and a staggering amount of them cannot be built.
<ng0>vagrantc: depends on which set of features you mean
<rekado>I don’t think Nix can generate Docker or Singularity images.
<rekado>(But it’s not too difficult to add, I think.)
<vagrantc>ng0: hard to say exactly ... i don't really consider guile a feature, per se, rather an implementation detail
<ng0>what are singularity images? has guix reached the point of singulatiry and become self aware?
<rekado>I haven’t used Nix myself, so I can’t say much about how they differ feature-wise.
<vagrantc>more like the sort of thing rekado just mentioned
<rekado>to me Guile is a feature, but not necessarily a feature general users care about.
<rekado>it makes extensions to Guix possible and easy.
<ng0>(asking, because searching in the source, and also in search engines will be hard)
<rekado>Examples are hpcguix-web or the Guix Workflow Language.
<vagrantc>i haven't really used nix at all ... the commitment to free software licensing in guix is pretty significant, but not so much a technical thing as a social thing
<rekado>ng0: Singularity is yet another “container” system, which targets HPC.
<nyberg>I have currently ended up with guix unable to boot as even grub won't be detected by my x220 and it is not visible from the boot menu. Is it possible to restore this via grub and if so how should I proceed? I'm currently in a chroot environment without network capabilities. Thanks
<niebie>nyberg: I haven't had to recover from that in ages - a thought might be to try and recover GRUB with something like Rescatux
<nyberg>I'll have a look. Only "rescue" cd I have currently is an old ubuntu install disk from work